Blurring the Lines Between Interfaces and Abstract Classes
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As I read https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/default-implementations-in-interfaces/?utm\_source=Main&utm\_campaign=34ca4f5665-EMAIL\_CAMPAIGN\_2017\_12\_19\_COPY\_01&utm\_medium=email&utm\_term=0\_aa2f642d94-34ca4f5665-227561569&mc\_cid=34ca4f5665&mc\_eid=8087c9508d, the first thing that came to mind is that this new feature, though it's clearly cool and useful, blurs the line between interfaces and abstract classes.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
Is this the programming technique video that Emily Ratajkowski was in?
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Is this the programming technique video that Emily Ratajkowski was in?
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I don't know about Emily Ratajkowski, but I saw a video where Karlie Kloss explains how to program a rectangle that is twice as wide as it is tall: [Karlie Kloss explains how to use math with the artist in Code Studio - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGeT8IyKd2M)
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Is this the programming technique video that Emily Ratajkowski was in?
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No, it's a short article; there is a picture or two, but no video.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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Maybe what they needed was a versioning system for interfaces and you lock (or not) your implementation to a given version. I get the motivation, but it seems like they are hacking the language a little too much. Why would someone both with an abstract class?
cheers Chris Maunder
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I get the motivation, but it seems like they are hacking the language a little too much. Why would someone both with an abstract class?
That was my point.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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No, it's a short article; there is a picture or two, but no video.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
I weep for the world when you can't even make a good risque innuendo anymore...
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Sure, except that you can inherit multiple interfaces and you still can't instantiate one without an implementation. Architecturally, they still have highly different uses.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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Sure, except that you can inherit multiple interfaces and you still can't instantiate one without an implementation.
Depending on how it is defined, it is possible to inherit an abstract class. Two cases in point are
ListandDictionary. After all, generics are, for all practical purposes, abstract classes.Quote:
Architecturally, they still have highly different uses.
About that, I agree, so why muddy the waters with this new construct that is half interface and half virtual method?
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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Sure, except that you can inherit multiple interfaces and you still can't instantiate one without an implementation. Architecturally, they still have highly different uses.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Quote:
Sure, except that you can inherit multiple interfaces and you still can't instantiate one without an implementation.
Depending on how it is defined, it is possible to inherit an abstract class. Two cases in point are
ListandDictionary. After all, generics are, for all practical purposes, abstract classes.Quote:
Architecturally, they still have highly different uses.
About that, I agree, so why muddy the waters with this new construct that is half interface and half virtual method?
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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As I read https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/default-implementations-in-interfaces/?utm\_source=Main&utm\_campaign=34ca4f5665-EMAIL\_CAMPAIGN\_2017\_12\_19\_COPY\_01&utm\_medium=email&utm\_term=0\_aa2f642d94-34ca4f5665-227561569&mc\_cid=34ca4f5665&mc\_eid=8087c9508d, the first thing that came to mind is that this new feature, though it's clearly cool and useful, blurs the line between interfaces and abstract classes.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
Interface default methods is a pointless "feature". Abstract classes are infinitely more useful than interfaces. I rarely use/create interfaces (I usually only use them when some .net feature demands it, such as
IDisposableorINotifyPropertyChange. In either case, you still have to implement the abstract methods/properties, or the interface methods.".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I weep for the world when you can't even make a good risque innuendo anymore...
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I'm sure you can. You just haven't.
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Interface default methods is a pointless "feature". Abstract classes are infinitely more useful than interfaces. I rarely use/create interfaces (I usually only use them when some .net feature demands it, such as
IDisposableorINotifyPropertyChange. In either case, you still have to implement the abstract methods/properties, or the interface methods.".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Quote:
Interface default methods is a pointless "feature".
Thank you for getting my point.
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Abstract classes are infinitely more useful than interfaces.
Absolutely!
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I rarely use/create interfaces (I usually only use them when some .net feature demands it, such as IDisposable or INotifyPropertyChange. In either case, you still have to implement the abstract methods/properties, or the interface methods.
My personal exception to that rule is IComparable, which I frequently implement, so that I can make collections of classes sortable and searchable.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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Quote:
Sure, except that you can inherit multiple interfaces and you still can't instantiate one without an implementation.
Depending on how it is defined, it is possible to inherit an abstract class. Two cases in point are
ListandDictionary. After all, generics are, for all practical purposes, abstract classes.Quote:
Architecturally, they still have highly different uses.
About that, I agree, so why muddy the waters with this new construct that is half interface and half virtual method?
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
David A. Gray wrote:
After all, generics are, for all practical purposes, abstract classes.
I really don't agree with that. I think in general the purpose of really surface-level default implementations give you options for interacting with those implementations or to give a default error. That's mostly it, or at least that's all I'd use it for. I don't see that as muddying. I think it will result in much more composable code, and that's a valid purpose.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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David A. Gray wrote:
After all, generics are, for all practical purposes, abstract classes.
I really don't agree with that. I think in general the purpose of really surface-level default implementations give you options for interacting with those implementations or to give a default error. That's mostly it, or at least that's all I'd use it for. I don't see that as muddying. I think it will result in much more composable code, and that's a valid purpose.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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David A. Gray wrote: After all, generics are, for all practical purposes, abstract classes. I really don't agree with that.
Please clarify. 1) You cannot directly implement a generic class. 2) The class provides default implementations of its methods to all instances. How, then, is a generic class anything more, nor less, than a specialized type of abstract base class?
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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I'm sure you can. You just haven't.
No, you are...
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As I read https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/default-implementations-in-interfaces/?utm\_source=Main&utm\_campaign=34ca4f5665-EMAIL\_CAMPAIGN\_2017\_12\_19\_COPY\_01&utm\_medium=email&utm\_term=0\_aa2f642d94-34ca4f5665-227561569&mc\_cid=34ca4f5665&mc\_eid=8087c9508d, the first thing that came to mind is that this new feature, though it's clearly cool and useful, blurs the line between interfaces and abstract classes.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
-
Maybe what they needed was a versioning system for interfaces and you lock (or not) your implementation to a given version. I get the motivation, but it seems like they are hacking the language a little too much. Why would someone both with an abstract class?
cheers Chris Maunder
so maybe sealed methods on the interface? They are part of the interface but can't be implemented.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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Interface default methods is a pointless "feature". Abstract classes are infinitely more useful than interfaces. I rarely use/create interfaces (I usually only use them when some .net feature demands it, such as
IDisposableorINotifyPropertyChange. In either case, you still have to implement the abstract methods/properties, or the interface methods.".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Maybe there's something about C# interfaces I don't get, but in general interfaces are extremely useful. I dunno about this particular aspect of them being discussed here, but in C++ at least they are crucial. Without them, you can't add polymorphic functionality to classes outside of the straight line inheritance mechanism. Do they not work anything like that in C#?
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Quote:
Interface default methods is a pointless "feature".
Thank you for getting my point.
Quote:
Abstract classes are infinitely more useful than interfaces.
Absolutely!
Quote:
I rarely use/create interfaces (I usually only use them when some .net feature demands it, such as IDisposable or INotifyPropertyChange. In either case, you still have to implement the abstract methods/properties, or the interface methods.
My personal exception to that rule is IComparable, which I frequently implement, so that I can make collections of classes sortable and searchable.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
I like interfaces, but I find myself deriving abstract classes from the interface that I derive the implementation classes. I implement the common stuff in the abstract class and leave the rest abstract. This allows me to create multiple base abstract classes for different hierarchies of things that all implement the base interface, but have different common functionality.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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I like it. Implement only the methods you really need and not bother about the rest. In Java I have listener interfaces with tons of methods that I will never need but have to put some empty stub code because I have to.
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I like it. Implement only the methods you really need and not bother about the rest. In Java I have listener interfaces with tons of methods that I will never need but have to put some empty stub code because I have to.
Am I missing something, or are you stuck with some badly designed Java classes? IMO, for the most part, an abstract class should provide a default implementation of every method, perhaps marked as virtual. With that being said, I have one abstract class of my own devising that has one abstract method on it, which must, of course, be implemented by every heir. Since the method takes an enumerated type as its argument, and its work requires evaluating that enumeration by way of a switch block, the base class cannot implement it.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
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As I read https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/default-implementations-in-interfaces/?utm\_source=Main&utm\_campaign=34ca4f5665-EMAIL\_CAMPAIGN\_2017\_12\_19\_COPY\_01&utm\_medium=email&utm\_term=0\_aa2f642d94-34ca4f5665-227561569&mc\_cid=34ca4f5665&mc\_eid=8087c9508d, the first thing that came to mind is that this new feature, though it's clearly cool and useful, blurs the line between interfaces and abstract classes.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
They also allow you to extend the functionality of the entire Interface hierarchy of classes by adding new methods with implementations. Of course, you can already do this with Extension Methods, which allows you to extend things in the context of what your are doing, depending which extension methods you include in your project in your using directives. I can see use cases for both, but I really like Extension Methods for the ability to extend a class without having to do anything to the class itself. Very SOLID.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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Quote:
I like it. Implement only the methods you really need and not bother about the rest. In Java I have listener interfaces with tons of methods that I will never need but have to put some empty stub code because I have to.
Am I missing something, or are you stuck with some badly designed Java classes? IMO, for the most part, an abstract class should provide a default implementation of every method, perhaps marked as virtual. With that being said, I have one abstract class of my own devising that has one abstract method on it, which must, of course, be implemented by every heir. Since the method takes an enumerated type as its argument, and its work requires evaluating that enumeration by way of a switch block, the base class cannot implement it.
David A. Gray Delivering Solutions for the Ages, One Problem at a Time Interpreting the Fundamental Principle of Tabular Reporting
Well, interfaces are used widely to implement event handlers of various devices. Usually they define methods for many events: public interface FlyOnTheWallListener onConnect, onDisconnect, onReceive, onConnectionClose, onVendorCompanyWentBroke etc ect. They cover every possible event. I need to respond to two events and will have to implement that interface. It's just how it is sometimes.
