I am a monster
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Meanwhile, the republican "pro-life" government has reinstated the death penalty :doh: Speaking of pro-life, why is the quality of the lives involved never discussed? It's just that an embryo needs to become a baby and beyond that the parent(s) have to see however they're going to raise it. It's not pro-life, it's really just anti-choice. I wonder how one gets to the mindset of "we decide what's best for everyone."
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Sander Rossel wrote:
So, it's not human until it's born?
Indeed(2).
So, a baby born at exactly 2:00 PM is not a baby at 1:59:59.999 PM? What magical powers do the birth canal have that pass life on to the baby? And when do you consider it born? When the head is crowned, out, or the whole baby is out? What if a toe is still sticking in?
Sander Rossel wrote:
The embryo itself may not be the woman's body (or it may, pretty irrelevant actually)
Actually, science is pretty relevant to me. :doh:
Sander Rossel wrote:
You are not your house, but I still need your consent before entering
I'm not arguing that we should break into a woman's body and steal her child so that analogy means nothing.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
So, a baby born at exactly 2:00 PM is not a baby at 1:59:59.999 PM?
I wouldn't really care if they killed it hours after it's been born (although I get why you'd have ethical complications with that). The baby doesn't have memories, a personality, or anything and I don't think it really cares at that point. It's unclear when exactly an embryo becomes a person, but for a lot of people it somewhere around six or seven months I guess (in the Netherlands you can have an abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy). What matters to me more is that when a child comes into this world it'll probably (you never know for sure) have a good future life. If the parents don't want it or can't care for it, for whatever reason, that probability is pretty low. So I'm actually against the suffering of this (to-be) person, which is why you need to abort it (preferably as soon as possible). So by aborting/killing (whatever) it you're doing it (and the parents) a favor. Of course when it's physically born it would be murder at some point and other people's feelings get involved as well making things harder as well.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
How so?
I don't know what you mean by how so? Conservatives donate more money and give more of their time to service than leftists do. It's been surveyed and studied many times.
Sander Rossel wrote:
If you think torturing and killing an animal just so you can eat it isn't (unnecessary) suffering then be my guest
I already pointed out that there is no need to torture an animal to eat it.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Conservatives donate more money and give more of their time to service than leftists do
And by "service" you mean church? That same church that has prosecuted women and gays, who have abused little children, who have killed in the name of Christ? I'd rather you'd not give at all X|
ZurdoDev wrote:
I already pointed out that there is no need to torture an animal to eat it.
Indeed, it's not necessary, but it happens at a large scale, which is why I stopped eating animals altogether.
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Quote:
legal abortion possible through late stages in pregnancyage eleven.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
I like the way you think :D I hear 11, do I hear 12, anyone? I got 13, 14... 15, 16 anyone? Sold at 15 to the orange gentleman over there!
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Quote:
the republican "pro-life" government has reinstated the death penalty
Yes, but only for democrats. ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
We shouldn't really make a difference... You get a...[^] ;p
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ZurdoDev wrote:
So, a baby born at exactly 2:00 PM is not a baby at 1:59:59.999 PM?
I wouldn't really care if they killed it hours after it's been born (although I get why you'd have ethical complications with that). The baby doesn't have memories, a personality, or anything and I don't think it really cares at that point. It's unclear when exactly an embryo becomes a person, but for a lot of people it somewhere around six or seven months I guess (in the Netherlands you can have an abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy). What matters to me more is that when a child comes into this world it'll probably (you never know for sure) have a good future life. If the parents don't want it or can't care for it, for whatever reason, that probability is pretty low. So I'm actually against the suffering of this (to-be) person, which is why you need to abort it (preferably as soon as possible). So by aborting/killing (whatever) it you're doing it (and the parents) a favor. Of course when it's physically born it would be murder at some point and other people's feelings get involved as well making things harder as well.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
It's unclear when exactly an embryo becomes a person,
No, it isn't at all. At moment of conception there is unique DNA. Period! I am so glad that you do not want to have kids because you are not fit to be a parent or even a human being for that matter. You have no morals whatsoever. The fact that you're OK with murdering unwanted children is beyond description. Yet you'll fight and argue for animal rights. Sad.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Conservatives donate more money and give more of their time to service than leftists do
And by "service" you mean church? That same church that has prosecuted women and gays, who have abused little children, who have killed in the name of Christ? I'd rather you'd not give at all X|
ZurdoDev wrote:
I already pointed out that there is no need to torture an animal to eat it.
Indeed, it's not necessary, but it happens at a large scale, which is why I stopped eating animals altogether.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
And by "service" you mean church?
No. Although, yes, churches provide a lot of service.
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Quote:
o, a baby born at exactly 2:00 PM is not a baby at 1:59:59.999 PM?
Until the umbilical cord is cut it is technically a parasite.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Forogar wrote:
Until the umbilical cord is cut it is technically a parasite.
Until they're moved out of the house, you could still argue that. :laugh:
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Sander Rossel wrote:
It's unclear when exactly an embryo becomes a person,
No, it isn't at all. At moment of conception there is unique DNA. Period! I am so glad that you do not want to have kids because you are not fit to be a parent or even a human being for that matter. You have no morals whatsoever. The fact that you're OK with murdering unwanted children is beyond description. Yet you'll fight and argue for animal rights. Sad.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
Period!
That's the kind of language that stifles all discussion.
ZurdoDev wrote:
you are not fit to be a parent or even a human being for that matter. You have no morals whatsoever.
Now that's harsh :( I've lived a better life than many people (including Christians) and I wouldn't hurt a living soul, but I'm no saint either. I'm just not for bringing people into this world against the will of those who'll have to raise it, which will not benefit the child nor the parent(s). You asked me for my point of view, which I have given. I am also not alone in these viewpoints as millions (if not billions) of people are pro-abortion. However, if you're going to attack me personally I'm all done with you, goodbye.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Period!
That's the kind of language that stifles all discussion.
ZurdoDev wrote:
you are not fit to be a parent or even a human being for that matter. You have no morals whatsoever.
Now that's harsh :( I've lived a better life than many people (including Christians) and I wouldn't hurt a living soul, but I'm no saint either. I'm just not for bringing people into this world against the will of those who'll have to raise it, which will not benefit the child nor the parent(s). You asked me for my point of view, which I have given. I am also not alone in these viewpoints as millions (if not billions) of people are pro-abortion. However, if you're going to attack me personally I'm all done with you, goodbye.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
That's the kind of language that stifles all discussion.
Ya, I hate it when science gets in the way of my opinion. :-D
Sander Rossel wrote:
if you're going to attack me personally I'm all done with you, goodbye.
You want unwanted children murdered. I'm not sorry if you feel attacked. That point of view should be attacked. Are you a great person otherwise? Probably. But when you want unwanted children to be murdered I'm not sure that all the good you do do, means a whole lot. Especially when you criticize the same thing (religions that have done tons of good but do have some bad periods.) :^) I won't apologize for valuing human life.
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ZurdoDev wrote:
Conservatives donate more money and give more of their time to service than leftists do
And by "service" you mean church? That same church that has prosecuted women and gays, who have abused little children, who have killed in the name of Christ? I'd rather you'd not give at all X|
ZurdoDev wrote:
I already pointed out that there is no need to torture an animal to eat it.
Indeed, it's not necessary, but it happens at a large scale, which is why I stopped eating animals altogether.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
That same church that has prosecuted women and gays
Thank God they've stopped all that now. Terrible times when that was happening. Of course Islam continues to kill people just for being gay right now all across the world.
Sander Rossel wrote:
Indeed, it's not necessary, but it happens at a large scale
It does indeed. Like with halal food that Islam not only insists Muslims eat, but insists *you* eat it too ("you" as it meat-eaters, not you specifically) as restaurants kowtow to Islam for fear of violent retribution. What those Christians did hundreds of years ago though....wow, what about that, huh?
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Sander Rossel wrote:
That same church that has prosecuted women and gays
Thank God they've stopped all that now. Terrible times when that was happening. Of course Islam continues to kill people just for being gay right now all across the world.
Sander Rossel wrote:
Indeed, it's not necessary, but it happens at a large scale
It does indeed. Like with halal food that Islam not only insists Muslims eat, but insists *you* eat it too ("you" as it meat-eaters, not you specifically) as restaurants kowtow to Islam for fear of violent retribution. What those Christians did hundreds of years ago though....wow, what about that, huh?
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Thank God they've stopped all that now.
Of course they haven't. Church leaders are still telling people gays are unnatural and that's it's a choice or disease. And if it were up to the church women would again be at home taking care of your twelve children. They don't have as much power as they used to, but their (im)morals are largely the same. Although a lot of churches are getting better lately, they're not (all) quite there yet. I'll give you this though, they're not as evil as they used to be, and most probably less evil than the Islam :) I don't really see the need for religion, just live your life as you see fit without hurting or bothering others (within the confines of the law, which shouldn't be influenced by religion). That said, everyone is free to believe what they want, I just wished they left others out of it (healthy discussion aside, but that's rarely possible on these subjects) :)
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Thank God they've stopped all that now.
Of course they haven't. Church leaders are still telling people gays are unnatural and that's it's a choice or disease. And if it were up to the church women would again be at home taking care of your twelve children. They don't have as much power as they used to, but their (im)morals are largely the same. Although a lot of churches are getting better lately, they're not (all) quite there yet. I'll give you this though, they're not as evil as they used to be, and most probably less evil than the Islam :) I don't really see the need for religion, just live your life as you see fit without hurting or bothering others (within the confines of the law, which shouldn't be influenced by religion). That said, everyone is free to believe what they want, I just wished they left others out of it (healthy discussion aside, but that's rarely possible on these subjects) :)
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Sander Rossel wrote:
Church leaders are still telling people gays are unnatural and that's it's a choice or disease.
That's terrible. Muslims throw people to their death for being gay. What about those mean words though?
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Sander Rossel wrote:
Church leaders are still telling people gays are unnatural and that's it's a choice or disease.
That's terrible. Muslims throw people to their death for being gay. What about those mean words though?
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
What about those mean words though?
They say words don't hurt, but gay people have been harassed and/or murdered or have committed suicide because of those words. They can't get married even if they wanted to. They can't adopt children. They can't donate blood. All because of those mean words. Words hurt, a lot. I heard gay people in the Middle East need drugs to feel good. Apparently, they're all... stoned! *yeehaw, I'll get my coat* Anyway, those death penalties are there because of "mere" words also. You can't say the Christian church (or some of them as there isn't "one" church) is good because the Islam is worse, they're both bad and I hope to see once see the day where people can say "hey, I'm gay!" and all the people would be like "okay!" (rhyme not intended).
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
What about those mean words though?
They say words don't hurt, but gay people have been harassed and/or murdered or have committed suicide because of those words. They can't get married even if they wanted to. They can't adopt children. They can't donate blood. All because of those mean words. Words hurt, a lot. I heard gay people in the Middle East need drugs to feel good. Apparently, they're all... stoned! *yeehaw, I'll get my coat* Anyway, those death penalties are there because of "mere" words also. You can't say the Christian church (or some of them as there isn't "one" church) is good because the Islam is worse, they're both bad and I hope to see once see the day where people can say "hey, I'm gay!" and all the people would be like "okay!" (rhyme not intended).
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Sander Rossel wrote:
They say words don't hurt, but gay people have been harassed and/or murdered or have committed suicide because of those words.
No Christian has ever murdered a gay person because a priest said homosexuality was a sin. People are murdered in Islamic countries all the time for being gay. Those still alive are only alive as they are hiding their sexuality. What about those mean words though?
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As someone who doesn't want children at all it's beyond me why anyone would ever want more than, say, two. Or how you'd pay for more :~ I do think child birth beyond the first or second child should be discouraged, like child support only for the first child, etc. And of course legal abortion possible through late stages in pregnancy.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
As someone who doesn't want children
Same here. At some point in my life, I did want children, but I took a nap and it passed.
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Meanwhile, the republican "pro-life" government has reinstated the death penalty :doh: Speaking of pro-life, why is the quality of the lives involved never discussed? It's just that an embryo needs to become a baby and beyond that the parent(s) have to see however they're going to raise it. It's not pro-life, it's really just anti-choice. I wonder how one gets to the mindset of "we decide what's best for everyone."
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Sander Rossel wrote:
I wonder how one gets to the mindset of "we decide what's best for everyone."
They get it from religion.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
I wonder how one gets to the mindset of "we decide what's best for everyone."
They get it from religion.
Le centriste wrote:
They get it from religion.
They also get it from non-religion so your point is now nullified. For example, you try to push "your views" on others even though you don't have a religion. Religion is just a set of beliefs so we all fall under that category. Your statement means nothing other than another attempt to persecute those that are different than you.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
They say words don't hurt, but gay people have been harassed and/or murdered or have committed suicide because of those words.
No Christian has ever murdered a gay person because a priest said homosexuality was a sin. People are murdered in Islamic countries all the time for being gay. Those still alive are only alive as they are hiding their sexuality. What about those mean words though?
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
No Christian has ever murdered a gay person because a priest said homosexuality was a sin.
Stop deluding yourself. If that was the case, things like the Gay Panic Defense would never have existed in this 'Christian Nation' of ours.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
That's the kind of language that stifles all discussion.
Ya, I hate it when science gets in the way of my opinion. :-D
Sander Rossel wrote:
if you're going to attack me personally I'm all done with you, goodbye.
You want unwanted children murdered. I'm not sorry if you feel attacked. That point of view should be attacked. Are you a great person otherwise? Probably. But when you want unwanted children to be murdered I'm not sure that all the good you do do, means a whole lot. Especially when you criticize the same thing (religions that have done tons of good but do have some bad periods.) :^) I won't apologize for valuing human life.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
What he really wants is no unwanted children, and in that way he values life more than the anti-abortion crusaders. I would make a snide remark about how Christians don't care whether there are unwanted children or not, but that would make this snide remark pointless.
