Win10 UI : The NavBar Grab Problem
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Thanks, it is crazy that even the place to get version info has moved. I mean Help...About... is in every app for over 20 years and now I have to go to File...Account (and File...Office Account... in Outlook - no consistency).
The Office team has run out of real functionality to implement, so it appears they make cosmetic changes that provide an illusion of change without producing anything useful.
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So, Win10 has made the Title bar of every window extremely small -- they've collapsed it and added the toolbar (icons) directly to the nav bar. Now, I often have trouble even finding a place that will accept a "grab" when I need to drag and drop the window somewhere else. For example, in MS Word you can only grab the nav bar in the middle of the window. Shown here between the two "off limits" red boxes : https://i.stack.imgur.com/LspUm.png[^] Small Space To Grab Window That means if you need to grab your window from the left or the right side -- because other windows are obscuring it -- you cannot. Instead you have to make sure you can see the middle of the window and grab it there. Other Apps - Different Locations However, in other apps, the only place you can grab are small places at the edges. In FireFox for example, you can only grab the nav bar in the two small locations shown in this image: https://i.stack.imgur.com/zCjbT.png[^] No Consistency So, as windows overlap each other there is no consistent place to grab a window to move it. It's quite annoying and a waste of time.
Please try the following: Press keyboard "Windows" + Direction key (Up, down, right, left). Isn't this cool?
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What version of Office are you using? I use Windows 10 with an older version of Office and the "grab" areas are normal size. So it's probably not a Windows thing.
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David Crow wrote:
I use Windows 10 with an older version of Office and the "grab" areas are normal size.
Yup. That's because it's not a Windows 10 feature, it's a bunch of individual app developers all drinking similar koolaid and rolling their own mutually inconsistent and frequently buggy implementations of custom titlebars they can vomit buttons into. I blame browser authors pushing tabs into the titlebar for making this crime against usability seem acceptable. X| If it was an officially supported feature it'd suck less in that the titlebar would still have all its regular features and presumably have a consistent reserved area as a grab handle.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Please try the following: Press keyboard "Windows" + Direction key (Up, down, right, left). Isn't this cool?
Not if you want windows that aren't quasi-maximized. Alt+Space M Arrows works for versions of only if you're happy with movement so slow it's faster to take your hands off the keyboard, get a mouse out of the drawer, plug it in, wait for windows to load the driver, move the window with the mouse, unplug the mouse, put it back into the drawer, and put your hands back on the keyboard. It's only really useful for when monitor changes (eg docked to standalone laptop) leave a window location off screen because once you've arrowed it once the mouse will move it.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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So, Win10 has made the Title bar of every window extremely small -- they've collapsed it and added the toolbar (icons) directly to the nav bar. Now, I often have trouble even finding a place that will accept a "grab" when I need to drag and drop the window somewhere else. For example, in MS Word you can only grab the nav bar in the middle of the window. Shown here between the two "off limits" red boxes : https://i.stack.imgur.com/LspUm.png[^] Small Space To Grab Window That means if you need to grab your window from the left or the right side -- because other windows are obscuring it -- you cannot. Instead you have to make sure you can see the middle of the window and grab it there. Other Apps - Different Locations However, in other apps, the only place you can grab are small places at the edges. In FireFox for example, you can only grab the nav bar in the two small locations shown in this image: https://i.stack.imgur.com/zCjbT.png[^] No Consistency So, as windows overlap each other there is no consistent place to grab a window to move it. It's quite annoying and a waste of time.
Seconding the other keyboard user: Try Alt+Spacebar This should pop the system menu for the focused app I use M UpArrow cursor keys or mouse to relocate. M for Move UpArrow to grab the top of the window since I normally need to do this for some application that has pushed off of the top of the screen. I use one portrait mode monitor and one landscape mode monitor which makes it easy to (accidentally) position frames in weird locations.
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Please try the following: Press keyboard "Windows" + Direction key (Up, down, right, left). Isn't this cool?
Marc Greiner at home wrote:
Press keyboard "Windows" + Direction key (Up, down, right, left). Isn't this cool?
Yeah, I've been using that (well, alt + spacebar) since Win 3.1 when I would be installing Windows on computers we had sold that didn't have a mouse attached. Yes, we provided mice, but sometimes at the bench I was too lazy to get up and grab a mouse. :D Those were the days! :rolleyes: However, this is a bit different because to use that keyboard command you have to first set focus to the window. Well, yes, I guess you can Alt-Tab through and then use that, so that is a reasonable option. I don't really like the mouse anyways. It's a distraction from typing. :)
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Seconding the other keyboard user: Try Alt+Spacebar This should pop the system menu for the focused app I use M UpArrow cursor keys or mouse to relocate. M for Move UpArrow to grab the top of the window since I normally need to do this for some application that has pushed off of the top of the screen. I use one portrait mode monitor and one landscape mode monitor which makes it easy to (accidentally) position frames in weird locations.
I have used the keyboard move for a long time now. Unfortunately, this does not work on RDP (VM). Instead it grabs the RDP window and not the underlying window I'm attempting to grab. We use RDP VMs exclusively for dev here "to protect our physical PCs*". Yes, it's quite terrible. :rolleyes: *IT imposes rules. Mordac IT Preventer of Info Services, Lives! Dilbert Comic Strip on 2007-11-16 | Dilbert by Scott Adams[^] Dilbert Comic Strip on 1998-04-06 | Dilbert by Scott Adams[^] Dilbert Comic Strip on 2010-05-08 | Dilbert by Scott Adams[^]
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I have used the keyboard move for a long time now. Unfortunately, this does not work on RDP (VM). Instead it grabs the RDP window and not the underlying window I'm attempting to grab. We use RDP VMs exclusively for dev here "to protect our physical PCs*". Yes, it's quite terrible. :rolleyes: *IT imposes rules. Mordac IT Preventer of Info Services, Lives! Dilbert Comic Strip on 2007-11-16 | Dilbert by Scott Adams[^] Dilbert Comic Strip on 1998-04-06 | Dilbert by Scott Adams[^] Dilbert Comic Strip on 2010-05-08 | Dilbert by Scott Adams[^]
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So, Win10 has made the Title bar of every window extremely small -- they've collapsed it and added the toolbar (icons) directly to the nav bar. Now, I often have trouble even finding a place that will accept a "grab" when I need to drag and drop the window somewhere else. For example, in MS Word you can only grab the nav bar in the middle of the window. Shown here between the two "off limits" red boxes : https://i.stack.imgur.com/LspUm.png[^] Small Space To Grab Window That means if you need to grab your window from the left or the right side -- because other windows are obscuring it -- you cannot. Instead you have to make sure you can see the middle of the window and grab it there. Other Apps - Different Locations However, in other apps, the only place you can grab are small places at the edges. In FireFox for example, you can only grab the nav bar in the two small locations shown in this image: https://i.stack.imgur.com/zCjbT.png[^] No Consistency So, as windows overlap each other there is no consistent place to grab a window to move it. It's quite annoying and a waste of time.
I'd rather deal with that than the fact that, since Windows 8 (?), you only have a one-pixel border you can grab onto in order to resize windows. I've been a Windows user since 2.0, and this is infuriating. I have no such problem with moving windows by grabbing the caption area. That, and disappearing scrollbars. It's impossible to have the mouse stay in one position while I'm reading a long page in a browser and I just want to go down a few lines. Worse when all you have is a trackpad. Before that sort of thing, I could just keep hitting the trackpad's button while leaving the pointer alone.
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I'd rather deal with that than the fact that, since Windows 8 (?), you only have a one-pixel border you can grab onto in order to resize windows. I've been a Windows user since 2.0, and this is infuriating. I have no such problem with moving windows by grabbing the caption area. That, and disappearing scrollbars. It's impossible to have the mouse stay in one position while I'm reading a long page in a browser and I just want to go down a few lines. Worse when all you have is a trackpad. Before that sort of thing, I could just keep hitting the trackpad's button while leaving the pointer alone.
dandy72 wrote:
I'd rather deal with that than the fact that, since Windows 8 (?), you only have a one-pixel border you can grab onto in order to resize windows.
Agree 100%. It's so crazy too because we who understand Windows know that the border is really there - just a drawing trick - and yet you cannot get a hold on the window. It's terrible. I often get the resize cursor, go to click and it moves one pixel and does not grab the window. It's really a terrible feature all to make things look modern. Analogy: It'd be like having a beautiful front door that no longer has hinges because the designer wanted it to be beautiful. Now you have to crawl in your window to get inside your house.
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dandy72 wrote:
I'd rather deal with that than the fact that, since Windows 8 (?), you only have a one-pixel border you can grab onto in order to resize windows.
Agree 100%. It's so crazy too because we who understand Windows know that the border is really there - just a drawing trick - and yet you cannot get a hold on the window. It's terrible. I often get the resize cursor, go to click and it moves one pixel and does not grab the window. It's really a terrible feature all to make things look modern. Analogy: It'd be like having a beautiful front door that no longer has hinges because the designer wanted it to be beautiful. Now you have to crawl in your window to get inside your house.
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i did run a *nix shell prompt from a rooted phone of mine way back when. i hate typing with my thumbs though so i gave it up.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
honey the monster, codewitch wrote:
i hate typing with my thumbs though
So do I. That's why I only type with my forefingers. Everywhere I go, I'm one of the slowest typists -- but the most productive, usually by far.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Your analogy is rather Apple-esque. Lets remove the headphone jack so the phone looks prettier. You'll probably lose your ear buds constantly, but hey, that's what they sell $180 replacements for.
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In Word, select File --> Account. This gives you the basic information. Mine says: Microsoft Office 365 ProPlus and below that: version 1906 (build 11727.20244 Click-to-Run) I had not paid attention before this, but MS is using the same naming schema as Windows. Click About Word to get more details. When when Microsoft posts a version number, they hide it in plain sight. My version is listed on the About dialog as: Microsoft Word for Office 365 MSO (16.0.11727.20222) 32-bit The average end user may not recognize it as version 16 ...
Or just go to %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Office and it's a two-digit directory name (if there are two, it's the lower number). The File.Account thing only works if your copy of office is (foolishly) linked to a user account.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The Office team has run out of real functionality to implement, so it appears they make cosmetic changes that provide an illusion of change without producing anything useful.
You're forgetting how much they break, with each release.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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So, Win10 has made the Title bar of every window extremely small -- they've collapsed it and added the toolbar (icons) directly to the nav bar. Now, I often have trouble even finding a place that will accept a "grab" when I need to drag and drop the window somewhere else. For example, in MS Word you can only grab the nav bar in the middle of the window. Shown here between the two "off limits" red boxes : https://i.stack.imgur.com/LspUm.png[^] Small Space To Grab Window That means if you need to grab your window from the left or the right side -- because other windows are obscuring it -- you cannot. Instead you have to make sure you can see the middle of the window and grab it there. Other Apps - Different Locations However, in other apps, the only place you can grab are small places at the edges. In FireFox for example, you can only grab the nav bar in the two small locations shown in this image: https://i.stack.imgur.com/zCjbT.png[^] No Consistency So, as windows overlap each other there is no consistent place to grab a window to move it. It's quite annoying and a waste of time.
I know it's going to sound like a workaround, but for those of us who regularly use a Linux desktop, it's more of the "natural way": go get something like AltDrag and drag your windows from _anywhere_, when you have a modifier key (traditionally Alt) depressed. Same for resizing, normally with the right button.
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Or just go to %userprofile%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Office and it's a two-digit directory name (if there are two, it's the lower number). The File.Account thing only works if your copy of office is (foolishly) linked to a user account.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
File - Account works even if you aren’t signed in, it’s the same screen that shows you your product activation status too. On old versions of Office it would just say “Office 2016 Home & Business)” but now it will say something like “Office 2016 Home & Business (my.email@account.com)” so you can determine which Microsoft account the license belongs to. The sign into office is actually entirely seperate to your account linking and you can freely sign out of office from that screen and keep your activation attached to the machine.
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So, Win10 has made the Title bar of every window extremely small -- they've collapsed it and added the toolbar (icons) directly to the nav bar. Now, I often have trouble even finding a place that will accept a "grab" when I need to drag and drop the window somewhere else. For example, in MS Word you can only grab the nav bar in the middle of the window. Shown here between the two "off limits" red boxes : https://i.stack.imgur.com/LspUm.png[^] Small Space To Grab Window That means if you need to grab your window from the left or the right side -- because other windows are obscuring it -- you cannot. Instead you have to make sure you can see the middle of the window and grab it there. Other Apps - Different Locations However, in other apps, the only place you can grab are small places at the edges. In FireFox for example, you can only grab the nav bar in the two small locations shown in this image: https://i.stack.imgur.com/zCjbT.png[^] No Consistency So, as windows overlap each other there is no consistent place to grab a window to move it. It's quite annoying and a waste of time.
I totally agree, this issue frequently bugs me. What kind of computer system requires repeated instruction to perform a simple task? It also goes against software etiquette which is why I was very surprised MS did this. I was taught the importance of including visible 'grab-points' on windows. Sure, it may free up some screen space, perhaps they were catering for those tediously microscopic display screens on mobiles. The lesson is, I think, that one operating system can not solve all problems: 'horses for courses' as they say. Windows has tried to hard to be a one-man band.
