web development takes too long
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Short answer: no. Long answer: neither (D)HTML nor CSS were really designed for the purpose they are used for, namely a browser-independent specification of page layout, etc. It is therefore no surprise that HTML development is so kludgy.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
neither (D)HTML nor CSS were really designed for
wait, they were designed? I don't buy it. :omg: I figure someone came up with them while drinking. Like "hold my beer"
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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it sounds like trading one set of problems for another. and speaking of this webdev crap, the WPF designer is about as bad as all that. Which is why i don't use WPF
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
I find with WPF that it's far easier just to write the XAML as text and ignore the WYSIWYMIYGBPW* editor as much as possible. (*What you see is what you might imagine you'll get but probably won't).
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
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it always comes down to trial and error. make a thing, try a thing, go back and *remake* the thing because DHTML and CSS are funny in a sad kind of way - like an old married couple that hates each other but won't divorce. is there a better way to do it? I mean other than schlepping it off onto someone else, which is my first choice. :laugh: is there some magic to web development that makes it not suck?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
Well ... there is Blazor: Blazor | Build client web apps with C# | .NET[^] - which should get rid of >50% of the actual suckery: Javascript. It still uses HTML and CSS though :sigh: I haven't tried it - I learned many years ago that anything microsoft count as "before RTM" (or even "before SP1") is realistically called "beta" - but it does look very interesting.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Well ... there is Blazor: Blazor | Build client web apps with C# | .NET[^] - which should get rid of >50% of the actual suckery: Javascript. It still uses HTML and CSS though :sigh: I haven't tried it - I learned many years ago that anything microsoft count as "before RTM" (or even "before SP1") is realistically called "beta" - but it does look very interesting.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
javascript is actually not terrible for me with jquery. a lot of times it's just spacing and overlapping layout crap that CSS does that takes all my time. I could probably go back to using tables and cut my webdev time in half. I think CSS was designed by committee, and that committee actually hates people - like a committee of misanthropes. "Let's take something conceptually easy and make it nearly impossible to use instead, so that we can make people feel bad about themselves" - CSS working group.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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it always comes down to trial and error. make a thing, try a thing, go back and *remake* the thing because DHTML and CSS are funny in a sad kind of way - like an old married couple that hates each other but won't divorce. is there a better way to do it? I mean other than schlepping it off onto someone else, which is my first choice. :laugh: is there some magic to web development that makes it not suck?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
honey the codewitch wrote:
is there a better way to do it?
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honey the codewitch wrote:
is there a better way to do it?
well, i wasn't sure that you hated me before, but now i am. :laugh:
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I find with WPF that it's far easier just to write the XAML as text and ignore the WYSIWYMIYGBPW* editor as much as possible. (*What you see is what you might imagine you'll get but probably won't).
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
does that somehow make error reporting come back? i love when i put a control on a page and I get no control, and no error. it just warms my black little heart.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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well, i wasn't sure that you hated me before, but now i am. :laugh:
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
Na, it does the job. More or less. I reckon that it does not *completely* fullfill that other requirement of yours that it should not make web development suck. :)
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Na, it does the job. More or less. I reckon that it does not *completely* fullfill that other requirement of yours that it should not make web development suck. :)
in 2006 microsoft was finally embarrassed enough to discontinue it and instead hide its functionality in sharepoint.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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in 2006 microsoft was finally embarrassed enough to discontinue it and instead hide its functionality in sharepoint.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
I think it's burried just next to clippy.
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I think it's burried just next to clippy.
I killed clippy myself, and I'll never tell where i hid the body, except it's the first place you'd look if it wasn't the last place you'd expect.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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it sounds like trading one set of problems for another. and speaking of this webdev crap, the WPF designer is about as bad as all that. Which is why i don't use WPF
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
honey the codewitch wrote:
Which is why i don't use WPF
If you're looking for a good replacement for WPF... Electron | Build cross platform desktop apps with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS.[^] It brings all the bad things of web development and mixes it with all the bad things of desktop development to give you the best desktop development tool ever :D
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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honey the codewitch wrote:
Which is why i don't use WPF
If you're looking for a good replacement for WPF... Electron | Build cross platform desktop apps with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS.[^] It brings all the bad things of web development and mixes it with all the bad things of desktop development to give you the best desktop development tool ever :D
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Sander Rossel wrote:
It brings all the bad things of web development and mixes it with all the bad things of desktop development to give you the best desktop development tool ever
so they tried to make WPF?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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javascript is actually not terrible for me with jquery. a lot of times it's just spacing and overlapping layout crap that CSS does that takes all my time. I could probably go back to using tables and cut my webdev time in half. I think CSS was designed by committee, and that committee actually hates people - like a committee of misanthropes. "Let's take something conceptually easy and make it nearly impossible to use instead, so that we can make people feel bad about themselves" - CSS working group.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote:
I could probably go back to using tables
Wait, there's another way? :laugh: I don't care what is en vogue, tables rule! :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
after implementing .clearfix enough times in CSS trying to use its "modern" method (which doesn't work) I tend to agree.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote:
is there a better way to do it?
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Sander Rossel wrote:
It brings all the bad things of web development and mixes it with all the bad things of desktop development to give you the best desktop development tool ever
so they tried to make WPF?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
At least it's multi-platform... Give them some credit!
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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At least it's multi-platform... Give them some credit!
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Certainly, I give them credit for making it suck on any platform you want it to suck on. :laugh:
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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it always comes down to trial and error. make a thing, try a thing, go back and *remake* the thing because DHTML and CSS are funny in a sad kind of way - like an old married couple that hates each other but won't divorce. is there a better way to do it? I mean other than schlepping it off onto someone else, which is my first choice. :laugh: is there some magic to web development that makes it not suck?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
honey the codewitch wrote:
is there a better way to do it?
I have found that repeatedly banging my head against a wall, while swearing and wailing, lessens the suckiness of web development.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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it always comes down to trial and error. make a thing, try a thing, go back and *remake* the thing because DHTML and CSS are funny in a sad kind of way - like an old married couple that hates each other but won't divorce. is there a better way to do it? I mean other than schlepping it off onto someone else, which is my first choice. :laugh: is there some magic to web development that makes it not suck?
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
With my limited experience with web technologies and having spent some time with the various libraries. I have found that DHMLX works far better than some other supposedly better coded ones, e.g. Telerik ones. Using such libraries shaves off a lot of development effort. Also, DHTMLX has far better documentation that any I've seen. And the magic you're looking for is called JavaScript, there's also bootstrap. :laugh:
