Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. In defense of inkjet printers

In defense of inkjet printers

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
combusinessperformancediscussion
37 Posts 16 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • G Gary Wheeler

    Paper characteristics are a major factor in print quality for both laser and inkjet. In the consumer world it's probably not a big deal as long as the paper transport within the printer can move it correctly. It will affect dot placement in both cases, since the surface isn't flat and uniform. Even during the xerographic (laser) process, which applies pressure to the paper during printing, this will be a problem when the paper is released. Textured paper as you describe would cause our printers grief. Height above substrate (the distance the drops travel) varies which affects drop placement. Textured paper is going to drop fibers as it goes through the press, which will block jets and interfere with camera systems. Worst of all is textured paper deforms a lot more when it gets wet and then is dried, which will cause further registration issues. We've had customers apply texturing effects to images in pre-production to achieve the look of what you've described while printing on a nice flat substrate.

    Software Zen: delete this;

    P Offline
    P Offline
    PIEBALDconsult
    wrote on last edited by
    #5

    Quote:

    apply texturing effects to images

    Uh, no.

    G 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • P PIEBALDconsult

      Quote:

      apply texturing effects to images

      Uh, no.

      G Offline
      G Offline
      Gary Wheeler
      wrote on last edited by
      #6

      Agreed. We usually recommend against such things, even when they're done in a subtle fashion, because the end result just doesn't look right.

      Software Zen: delete this;

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • G Gary Wheeler

        My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.

        Software Zen: delete this;

        R Offline
        R Offline
        Rick York
        wrote on last edited by
        #7

        I once worked on a project for a well-known purveyor of expensive ink where we measured the volume of individual drops of ink from cartridges. I believe the units used were picoliters.

        "They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"

        G 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • R Rick York

          I once worked on a project for a well-known purveyor of expensive ink where we measured the volume of individual drops of ink from cartridges. I believe the units used were picoliters.

          "They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"

          G Offline
          G Offline
          Gary Wheeler
          wrote on last edited by
          #8

          Rick York wrote:

          I believe the units used were picoliters

          Our drops range from 11pL down to around 6pL, depending on the product line and resolution. One of our more inventive bits of salesmanship was in a poster displayed at a recent show: "If our ink drops were raindrops, we would be laying down the volume of an Olympic-sized swimming pool every second." :omg:

          Software Zen: delete this;

          M D 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • G Gary Wheeler

            Rick York wrote:

            I believe the units used were picoliters

            Our drops range from 11pL down to around 6pL, depending on the product line and resolution. One of our more inventive bits of salesmanship was in a poster displayed at a recent show: "If our ink drops were raindrops, we would be laying down the volume of an Olympic-sized swimming pool every second." :omg:

            Software Zen: delete this;

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Maximilien
            wrote on last edited by
            #9

            Gary Wheeler wrote:

            we would be laying down the volume of an Olympic-sized swimming pool every second."

            That would make the olympics a lot more fun.

            I'd rather be phishing!

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • OriginalGriffO OriginalGriff

              I'd agree - for commercial systems inkjet is way better (particularly if you use UV setting inks). I used to design industrial inkjet printers (not on your scale) for coding and marking, and provided it's used all the time inkjet (even piezo inkjet) is very, very hard to beat. And unbelievably profitable ... the margins on ink are massive! Even for workplace, when it's being used every day, inkjet can be excellent. But domestic? It's a PITA. :laugh:

              "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

              D Offline
              D Offline
              dandy72
              wrote on last edited by
              #10

              OriginalGriff wrote:

              And unbelievably profitable ... the margins on ink are massive!

              It might have turned into a meme by now, but somebody years ago had calculated that if inkjet printer ink was sold by the gallon, one unit would be something like $9000...

              OriginalGriffO 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • G Gary Wheeler

                Rick York wrote:

                I believe the units used were picoliters

                Our drops range from 11pL down to around 6pL, depending on the product line and resolution. One of our more inventive bits of salesmanship was in a poster displayed at a recent show: "If our ink drops were raindrops, we would be laying down the volume of an Olympic-sized swimming pool every second." :omg:

                Software Zen: delete this;

                D Offline
                D Offline
                dandy72
                wrote on last edited by
                #11

                Gotta love "those" sorts of units. How many Libraries of Congress is that (as the meme goes)?

                G 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • D dandy72

                  Gotta love "those" sorts of units. How many Libraries of Congress is that (as the meme goes)?

                  G Offline
                  G Offline
                  Gary Wheeler
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #12

                  Hmm. The math shouldn't be too hard. Each roll of paper is on the order of 40,000 ft. Assume that 1 ft of paper = 4 printed pages (2 sheets, front and back). A roll of paper is therefore about 160,000 pages. The Library of Congress contains approximately 160 million items. Assuming 100 pages per item, that's 1.6x1010 pages, or 100,000 rolls of paper. At 1 roll of paper per hour, it would take one of our machines 11.4 years printing continuously at max speed 24/7/365 to print 1 Library of Congress. Of course this omits mandatory maintenance and such, so you might have warranty issues :-\ .

                  Software Zen: delete this;

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • D dandy72

                    OriginalGriff wrote:

                    And unbelievably profitable ... the margins on ink are massive!

                    It might have turned into a meme by now, but somebody years ago had calculated that if inkjet printer ink was sold by the gallon, one unit would be something like $9000...

                    OriginalGriffO Offline
                    OriginalGriffO Offline
                    OriginalGriff
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #13

                    A gallon of our ink would have cost us around £7, and once packaged for the printer it would sell for about £4,200 or so. And since it was a pigmented ink (2nm Carbon in an aliphatic hydrocarbon) it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated. (We had a 5nm filter inline, to protect the 10nm filter in the print head but once it flocculated it blocked that pretty quickly.) Nasty stuff that ink - that aliphatic hydrocarbon base ate reacted with nearly everything, and it was next to impossible to get out of your clothes if you got it on them.

                    "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

                    "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
                    "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt

                    D 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • OriginalGriffO OriginalGriff

                      A gallon of our ink would have cost us around £7, and once packaged for the printer it would sell for about £4,200 or so. And since it was a pigmented ink (2nm Carbon in an aliphatic hydrocarbon) it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated. (We had a 5nm filter inline, to protect the 10nm filter in the print head but once it flocculated it blocked that pretty quickly.) Nasty stuff that ink - that aliphatic hydrocarbon base ate reacted with nearly everything, and it was next to impossible to get out of your clothes if you got it on them.

                      "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

                      D Offline
                      D Offline
                      dandy72
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #14

                      OriginalGriff wrote:

                      it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated

                      Reticulating splines. Am I...am I doing it right? Oh, wait. It's actually a thing...had to look it up. :-)

                      OriginalGriffO 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • D dandy72

                        OriginalGriff wrote:

                        it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated

                        Reticulating splines. Am I...am I doing it right? Oh, wait. It's actually a thing...had to look it up. :-)

                        OriginalGriffO Offline
                        OriginalGriffO Offline
                        OriginalGriff
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #15

                        I'd never heard of it until I got involved with hi-res industrial printing. :-D It's a lovely sounding word though, innit?

                        "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

                        "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
                        "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt

                        D 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • OriginalGriffO OriginalGriff

                          I'd never heard of it until I got involved with hi-res industrial printing. :-D It's a lovely sounding word though, innit?

                          "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

                          D Offline
                          D Offline
                          DRHuff
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #16

                          Make it into a CCC!

                          I, for one, like Roman Numerals.

                          OriginalGriffO 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • D DRHuff

                            Make it into a CCC!

                            I, for one, like Roman Numerals.

                            OriginalGriffO Offline
                            OriginalGriffO Offline
                            OriginalGriff
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #17

                            I can't now! :laugh:

                            "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

                            "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
                            "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • G Gary Wheeler

                              My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.

                              Software Zen: delete this;

                              G Offline
                              G Offline
                              GenJerDan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #18

                              How about this idea? On-demand ink. The pigment is stored as a powder, and only become "ink" when mixed with water (or whatever), which occurs when you start a job. Silly idea? Or did I just blow a potential gazillion dollars in patent licensing?

                              We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB

                              D G R 3 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • G Gary Wheeler

                                My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.

                                Software Zen: delete this;

                                S Offline
                                S Offline
                                Stuart Dootson
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #19

                                Gary Wheeler wrote:

                                Inkjet works best when used frequently

                                I've been very pleasantly surprised by our printer (just a cheap [Canon Pixma](https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer\_products/products/fax\_\_multifunctionals/inkjet/pixma\_mg\_series/pixma\_mg3150.html)) in this regard - we print, on average, maybe once a month, and we have had problems with clogging with the printer we had before this one (an Epson, IIRC). This one, though? It's worked perfectly every time (🤞). The only complaint I have with it is that the mechanical bits seem to whir and hum, doing nothing productive, for a minute or so before the first page pops out. Subsequent pages come out quickly enough...

                                Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p

                                G D 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • G GenJerDan

                                  How about this idea? On-demand ink. The pigment is stored as a powder, and only become "ink" when mixed with water (or whatever), which occurs when you start a job. Silly idea? Or did I just blow a potential gazillion dollars in patent licensing?

                                  We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB

                                  D Offline
                                  D Offline
                                  Daniel Pfeffer
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #20

                                  I see some practical issues, namely ensuring that the liquid is properly mixed with the powder, that no lumps of powder remain in the liquid, etc. These problems are compounded by the need to mix tiny amounts, and do so fast enough to feed the print head. If you can solve the problems, you may have a patentable idea.

                                  Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.

                                  G 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • G Gary Wheeler

                                    My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.

                                    Software Zen: delete this;

                                    J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    John Bevan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #21

                                    My issue with the printer scenario is: :thumbsup: Inkjets are cheaper to buy than laserjets :thumbsup: Inkjets are generally smaller than laserjets That makes inkjets the natural choice for the home user. However, most home users don't print that much / that often. And ink dries out if not used in a while, so even more costly (and it's already more costly than a laserjet to run before this added inefficiency). :doh: So far I've been unable to discover a home printer optimised for the person who prints 5-6 pages once a month, mostly in black & white with the occasional colour logo/image; though I get the impression this is the scenario most home users are in. There are printing services, but that means a trip into town; so the last minute print-out before an assignment's due, or remembering to print off tickets as you're on your way out the door to a gig don't fit well with that solution. :| One idea I had was to create a service that helps you find neighbours with printers, so you can share such resources; i.e. when you need to print it'll find someone within 5 minutes walk of your house who's in, and allow you to print to their printer, charge you for the use, and then you pop round and grab it. That's also more environmentally friendly as it means you don't have a neighbourhood full of unused printers. What do people think?

                                    OriginalGriffO F 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • J John Bevan

                                      My issue with the printer scenario is: :thumbsup: Inkjets are cheaper to buy than laserjets :thumbsup: Inkjets are generally smaller than laserjets That makes inkjets the natural choice for the home user. However, most home users don't print that much / that often. And ink dries out if not used in a while, so even more costly (and it's already more costly than a laserjet to run before this added inefficiency). :doh: So far I've been unable to discover a home printer optimised for the person who prints 5-6 pages once a month, mostly in black & white with the occasional colour logo/image; though I get the impression this is the scenario most home users are in. There are printing services, but that means a trip into town; so the last minute print-out before an assignment's due, or remembering to print off tickets as you're on your way out the door to a gig don't fit well with that solution. :| One idea I had was to create a service that helps you find neighbours with printers, so you can share such resources; i.e. when you need to print it'll find someone within 5 minutes walk of your house who's in, and allow you to print to their printer, charge you for the use, and then you pop round and grab it. That's also more environmentally friendly as it means you don't have a neighbourhood full of unused printers. What do people think?

                                      OriginalGriffO Offline
                                      OriginalGriffO Offline
                                      OriginalGriff
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #22

                                      John Bevan wrote:

                                      Inkjets are generally smaller than laserjets

                                      I'd have to disagree on that one: the Epson I took out was 46x32x24, and the Samsung is 38x31x21

                                      "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

                                      "I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
                                      "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • G Gary Wheeler

                                        My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.

                                        Software Zen: delete this;

                                        R Offline
                                        R Offline
                                        Rage
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #23

                                        I have not followed the recent Lounge discussions, but most of us normal beings buy consumer printers like Canon, HP, Lexmark and stuff. All theses brands have: - Programmed obsolescence of about one year. - Ink suck-up regardless of how frequent the printer is used or not. I had a bunch of inkjet printers in the past, and about 80% of the ink was used to "clean the heads" or whatever bizarre process was requested every freaking time I fired up the machine. The business is to sell ink, not to offer any quality printing. The programmed obsolescence forces you to buy another machine, and ... ink, since either the cartridges format has changed or the delivered ink cartridges are almost empty. So, it is all about ink[^].

                                        Do not escape reality : improve reality !

                                        G 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • G Gary Wheeler

                                          My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.

                                          Software Zen: delete this;

                                          M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          maze3
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #24

                                          for any number nerds 17 feet per second == 11.59 miles per hour (google unit converter)

                                          G D 2 Replies Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups