In defense of inkjet printers
-
Rick York wrote:
I believe the units used were picoliters
Our drops range from 11pL down to around 6pL, depending on the product line and resolution. One of our more inventive bits of salesmanship was in a poster displayed at a recent show: "If our ink drops were raindrops, we would be laying down the volume of an Olympic-sized swimming pool every second." :omg:
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Gotta love "those" sorts of units. How many Libraries of Congress is that (as the meme goes)?
Hmm. The math shouldn't be too hard. Each roll of paper is on the order of 40,000 ft. Assume that 1 ft of paper = 4 printed pages (2 sheets, front and back). A roll of paper is therefore about 160,000 pages. The Library of Congress contains approximately 160 million items. Assuming 100 pages per item, that's 1.6x1010 pages, or 100,000 rolls of paper. At 1 roll of paper per hour, it would take one of our machines 11.4 years printing continuously at max speed 24/7/365 to print 1 Library of Congress. Of course this omits mandatory maintenance and such, so you might have warranty issues :-\ .
Software Zen:
delete this; -
OriginalGriff wrote:
And unbelievably profitable ... the margins on ink are massive!
It might have turned into a meme by now, but somebody years ago had calculated that if inkjet printer ink was sold by the gallon, one unit would be something like $9000...
A gallon of our ink would have cost us around £7, and once packaged for the printer it would sell for about £4,200 or so. And since it was a pigmented ink (2nm Carbon in an aliphatic hydrocarbon) it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated. (We had a 5nm filter inline, to protect the 10nm filter in the print head but once it flocculated it blocked that pretty quickly.) Nasty stuff that ink - that aliphatic hydrocarbon base ate reacted with nearly everything, and it was next to impossible to get out of your clothes if you got it on them.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
A gallon of our ink would have cost us around £7, and once packaged for the printer it would sell for about £4,200 or so. And since it was a pigmented ink (2nm Carbon in an aliphatic hydrocarbon) it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated. (We had a 5nm filter inline, to protect the 10nm filter in the print head but once it flocculated it blocked that pretty quickly.) Nasty stuff that ink - that aliphatic hydrocarbon base ate reacted with nearly everything, and it was next to impossible to get out of your clothes if you got it on them.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
OriginalGriff wrote:
it had a "use by" date on it as it flocculated
Reticulating splines. Am I...am I doing it right? Oh, wait. It's actually a thing...had to look it up. :-)
I'd never heard of it until I got involved with hi-res industrial printing. :-D It's a lovely sounding word though, innit?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
I'd never heard of it until I got involved with hi-res industrial printing. :-D It's a lovely sounding word though, innit?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
I can't now! :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.
Software Zen:
delete this;How about this idea? On-demand ink. The pigment is stored as a powder, and only become "ink" when mixed with water (or whatever), which occurs when you start a job. Silly idea? Or did I just blow a potential gazillion dollars in patent licensing?
We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB
-
My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
Inkjet works best when used frequently
I've been very pleasantly surprised by our printer (just a cheap [Canon Pixma](https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer\_products/products/fax\_\_multifunctionals/inkjet/pixma\_mg\_series/pixma\_mg3150.html)) in this regard - we print, on average, maybe once a month, and we have had problems with clogging with the printer we had before this one (an Epson, IIRC). This one, though? It's worked perfectly every time (🤞). The only complaint I have with it is that the mechanical bits seem to whir and hum, doing nothing productive, for a minute or so before the first page pops out. Subsequent pages come out quickly enough...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
-
How about this idea? On-demand ink. The pigment is stored as a powder, and only become "ink" when mixed with water (or whatever), which occurs when you start a job. Silly idea? Or did I just blow a potential gazillion dollars in patent licensing?
We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB
I see some practical issues, namely ensuring that the liquid is properly mixed with the powder, that no lumps of powder remain in the liquid, etc. These problems are compounded by the need to mix tiny amounts, and do so fast enough to feed the print head. If you can solve the problems, you may have a patentable idea.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
-
My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.
Software Zen:
delete this;My issue with the printer scenario is: :thumbsup: Inkjets are cheaper to buy than laserjets :thumbsup: Inkjets are generally smaller than laserjets That makes inkjets the natural choice for the home user. However, most home users don't print that much / that often. And ink dries out if not used in a while, so even more costly (and it's already more costly than a laserjet to run before this added inefficiency). :doh: So far I've been unable to discover a home printer optimised for the person who prints 5-6 pages once a month, mostly in black & white with the occasional colour logo/image; though I get the impression this is the scenario most home users are in. There are printing services, but that means a trip into town; so the last minute print-out before an assignment's due, or remembering to print off tickets as you're on your way out the door to a gig don't fit well with that solution. :| One idea I had was to create a service that helps you find neighbours with printers, so you can share such resources; i.e. when you need to print it'll find someone within 5 minutes walk of your house who's in, and allow you to print to their printer, charge you for the use, and then you pop round and grab it. That's also more environmentally friendly as it means you don't have a neighbourhood full of unused printers. What do people think?
-
My issue with the printer scenario is: :thumbsup: Inkjets are cheaper to buy than laserjets :thumbsup: Inkjets are generally smaller than laserjets That makes inkjets the natural choice for the home user. However, most home users don't print that much / that often. And ink dries out if not used in a while, so even more costly (and it's already more costly than a laserjet to run before this added inefficiency). :doh: So far I've been unable to discover a home printer optimised for the person who prints 5-6 pages once a month, mostly in black & white with the occasional colour logo/image; though I get the impression this is the scenario most home users are in. There are printing services, but that means a trip into town; so the last minute print-out before an assignment's due, or remembering to print off tickets as you're on your way out the door to a gig don't fit well with that solution. :| One idea I had was to create a service that helps you find neighbours with printers, so you can share such resources; i.e. when you need to print it'll find someone within 5 minutes walk of your house who's in, and allow you to print to their printer, charge you for the use, and then you pop round and grab it. That's also more environmentally friendly as it means you don't have a neighbourhood full of unused printers. What do people think?
John Bevan wrote:
Inkjets are generally smaller than laserjets
I'd have to disagree on that one: the Epson I took out was 46x32x24, and the Samsung is 38x31x21
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.
Software Zen:
delete this;I have not followed the recent Lounge discussions, but most of us normal beings buy consumer printers like Canon, HP, Lexmark and stuff. All theses brands have: - Programmed obsolescence of about one year. - Ink suck-up regardless of how frequent the printer is used or not. I had a bunch of inkjet printers in the past, and about 80% of the ink was used to "clean the heads" or whatever bizarre process was requested every freaking time I fired up the machine. The business is to sell ink, not to offer any quality printing. The programmed obsolescence forces you to buy another machine, and ... ink, since either the cartridges format has changed or the delivered ink cartridges are almost empty. So, it is all about ink[^].
-
My employer builds commercial inkjet printing systems[^], so I thought I'd make some comments regarding the current discussion on printers. Inkjet works best when used frequently. You are printing using a fluid, after all. If that fluid isn't kept circulating it will tend to dry and gum up the works. Our systems work hard to maintain ink concentration and other characteristics. Laser OTOH doesn't mind low duty cycle usage. As many have cited, you can power up a laser printer, print a few pages, and then power it off for days or weeks without harm. Toner is much more tolerant of environmental factors during storage than ink. In terms of print quality, if you need well-controlled color reproduction inkjet is a better choice. If high resolution and perfect registration is your thing, then laser is the way to go. For high speed and/or volume printing, inkjet is cheaper per page by far(*). (*) Brag: Our systems can print full color duplex (two-sided) at 17 feet per second. Like most technical products, you have to look at your requirements and choose based on them. For consumer document printing I prefer laser as the resolution is better, which is an advantage for text. For photographs I prefer inkjet as the color looks a lot better and most of the photograph papers on the market are designed for it.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
How about this idea? On-demand ink. The pigment is stored as a powder, and only become "ink" when mixed with water (or whatever), which occurs when you start a job. Silly idea? Or did I just blow a potential gazillion dollars in patent licensing?
We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB
No idea is truly silly, but given the work we go through to manage ink concentration and other characteristics, plus the Rube Goldberg apparatus in our ink production plant downstairs, I don't think it would be quite that easy. Nice try though.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Gary Wheeler wrote:
Inkjet works best when used frequently
I've been very pleasantly surprised by our printer (just a cheap [Canon Pixma](https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer\_products/products/fax\_\_multifunctionals/inkjet/pixma\_mg\_series/pixma\_mg3150.html)) in this regard - we print, on average, maybe once a month, and we have had problems with clogging with the printer we had before this one (an Epson, IIRC). This one, though? It's worked perfectly every time (🤞). The only complaint I have with it is that the mechanical bits seem to whir and hum, doing nothing productive, for a minute or so before the first page pops out. Subsequent pages come out quickly enough...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
Stuart Dootson wrote:
the mechanical bits seem to whir and hum, doing nothing productive, for a minute or so before the first page pops out
Taking an experienced guess they are 'cleaning' the printhead and related plumbing after a long shutdown period by flushing ink through it. We do essentially the same thing with secondary (non-ink) fluids.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I have not followed the recent Lounge discussions, but most of us normal beings buy consumer printers like Canon, HP, Lexmark and stuff. All theses brands have: - Programmed obsolescence of about one year. - Ink suck-up regardless of how frequent the printer is used or not. I had a bunch of inkjet printers in the past, and about 80% of the ink was used to "clean the heads" or whatever bizarre process was requested every freaking time I fired up the machine. The business is to sell ink, not to offer any quality printing. The programmed obsolescence forces you to buy another machine, and ... ink, since either the cartridges format has changed or the delivered ink cartridges are almost empty. So, it is all about ink[^].
That's an accurate, if cynical, description of how the inkjet business model works. The consumer market unfortunately exhibits the "planned obsolescence" behavior a lot more than in my neck of the woods. We have one product developed in the mid 1990's that we are still refurbishing and supporting to this day. Some of our customers get 10,000 hours or more of life out of their printheads when the design life was originally 2,000 hours.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Stuart Dootson wrote:
the mechanical bits seem to whir and hum, doing nothing productive, for a minute or so before the first page pops out
Taking an experienced guess they are 'cleaning' the printhead and related plumbing after a long shutdown period by flushing ink through it. We do essentially the same thing with secondary (non-ink) fluids.
Software Zen:
delete this;Some of it, I'm sure - but there's also a lot of sound that seems to me to be the paper feed wheels whizzing around, so IDK...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
-
Some of it, I'm sure - but there's also a lot of sound that seems to me to be the paper feed wheels whizzing around, so IDK...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
It's possible they're also moving the printhead into a cleaning position, where discharge from the jets during the cleaning process lands on an absorbent pad rather than the paper handling mechanism. I've seen this approach in one of my HP desktop printers at home.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
And in our case, the magic [cue sparkles] number
1,000feet per minute. :-DSoftware Zen:
delete this;
