about $2k to $2.5k to spend on a dev machine this year, need CPU recommends
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it depends. I've found i can get the best deal by finding the right barebones stuff and then adding to it - at least sometimes. in the end, i shop around, and i usually end up at least augmenting anything i buy.
Real programmers use butterflies
Sounds like a plan!
It's been 6 months since I joined the gym and there's been no progress. I'm going there tomorrow in person to find out what's really going on! JaxCoder.com
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Mike Hankey wrote:
I would say build your own machine
This then excludes a laptop, doesn't it ?
I don't like investing big money in laptops. I've had too many stolen, dropped or otherwise just broken down from wear and general use (usually a screen hinge and the display goes with it, or the power cable connecter inside the machine dies) It's much easier to repair and upgrade a desktop. I usually try to limit laptop purchases to $800 tops.
Real programmers use butterflies
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How many simultaneous VMs will you be running, and what OS will be in them? Since I run Linux as my host, I can dedicate most of the system resources to the VMs (when they're running) You need a cpu that will support at least 64gb of ram, and I would recommend no fewer than six cores. My personal pref for cpu's is AMD. For gaming, it's more about the video card than the rest of the box, and I'm assuming you won't be running any VMs while you're running the game. For the video card, no less than 4gb of DDR5 RAM, and 6-8 gb would give you the best experience. I personally prefer nVidia video cards.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013#realJSOP wrote:
My personal pref for cpu's is AMD.
#realJSOP wrote:
I personally prefer nVidia video cards.
I agree 100%. Also, I recently did a build that included AMD AMD RYZEN 5 2600X (12Core) and an NVidia card and 16GB ram, with Gigabyte M/B for about $500 and I'm running Ubuntu (dual boot with Windows, but never boot windows really) and the machine is blazing fast even doing Android dev with emulators running and Android Studio etc.
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#realJSOP wrote:
My personal pref for cpu's is AMD.
#realJSOP wrote:
I personally prefer nVidia video cards.
I agree 100%. Also, I recently did a build that included AMD AMD RYZEN 5 2600X (12Core) and an NVidia card and 16GB ram, with Gigabyte M/B for about $500 and I'm running Ubuntu (dual boot with Windows, but never boot windows really) and the machine is blazing fast even doing Android dev with emulators running and Android Studio etc.
I think my main reason for the Intel preference comes from the bad old days of AMD being behind in lithographic tech, and their chips running hotter and sucking more juice as a result. Or before that when their FP processing sucked. Of course, that's all in the past (I think?) But I've followed Intel CPUs over AMD because of it, and I just have a good feel for what a good Intel is vs a bad one, and I don't have the same feel for AMD - at least not yet. So I don't really know what I'm buying. How much cache is enough for an AMD 12core? for example. I can figure out baselines for intel's chips based on past experience and review knowledge i've accrued at say overclock.net. I haven't done that same legwork on AMD over the years so their lineup is largely opaque to me. And maybe it's time i changed that. I'll give the ryzens a look.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I don't like investing big money in laptops. I've had too many stolen, dropped or otherwise just broken down from wear and general use (usually a screen hinge and the display goes with it, or the power cable connecter inside the machine dies) It's much easier to repair and upgrade a desktop. I usually try to limit laptop purchases to $800 tops.
Real programmers use butterflies
You can get an extended warranty and get even replacements in case of accident at not much money... I buy a new laptop each 4 years +/-. Usually Lenovo T series Signature edition... Currently I have a T460s. They have all the usual ports at real size (important when you must interface robots/plc...), are slim and powerful. and of course with all the bells and whistles in the warranty... 5 years extended warranty with one guy at your door in 24 hours if you call them in any country. Of course all with a dock station for programming at the office. I guess my next one will be T500s or TWhateverTheyNameItNexts :D:D:D
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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I'll be running a machine with multiple VMs so I want cores to spare. 8 cores is more than enough. 4 is about minimum. I'll need the various VM bells and whistles like HyperV support and VTx whatever of course. I don't really game per se, though for this kind of money I wouldn't mind being able to game with the machine if i wanted to. i play the fallout franchise at least. I'm considering either an i7-9700(k?) or an i9-9900 or whatever. I think the i9 will come down this year and be in budget. *knock on wood* anyone use either of these CPUs heavily and can tell me, particularly when using VMs if they're happy with it, or if they would have gone better in retrospect? Or any alternatives to suggest? (I strongly prefer Intel to AMD cpus) I'm curious mostly, leaning toward the i9 for future proofing, assuming it's not still bleeding edge by the time i buy and i can afford it.
Real programmers use butterflies
They bought me (about $1800) Dell Precision T5810 Xeon ES-1620 v4 (3.5GH)[^] 32 GB RAM 64 Bit Win7 When I start the task manager it shows 8 thread (4 cores). That all being said, I wanted to get an i7 gamer's system (for a little less $) but my idea was to have easily available components (DDR4, standard socket, etc.) so upgrades and repairs would be available and cheap for years to come.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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You can get an extended warranty and get even replacements in case of accident at not much money... I buy a new laptop each 4 years +/-. Usually Lenovo T series Signature edition... Currently I have a T460s. They have all the usual ports at real size (important when you must interface robots/plc...), are slim and powerful. and of course with all the bells and whistles in the warranty... 5 years extended warranty with one guy at your door in 24 hours if you call them in any country. Of course all with a dock station for programming at the office. I guess my next one will be T500s or TWhateverTheyNameItNexts :D:D:D
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
Yeah but it's still a pain setting up a new machine when that happens. Especially after a year or two of getting it how i like
Real programmers use butterflies
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it depends. I've found i can get the best deal by finding the right barebones stuff and then adding to it - at least sometimes. in the end, i shop around, and i usually end up at least augmenting anything i buy.
Real programmers use butterflies
The only problem I've had with barebones systems is the quality of the motherboard. Barebones systems usually have cheap MB, so I prefer to choose my MB with features and quality in mind.
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Yeah but it's still a pain setting up a new machine when that happens. Especially after a year or two of getting it how i like
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They come and repair it for you at your home/office/where you are. Replacing even cracked screens. I don't know if they replace the whole computer... and how you cope with that... Never needed it.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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The only problem I've had with barebones systems is the quality of the motherboard. Barebones systems usually have cheap MB, so I prefer to choose my MB with features and quality in mind.
Generally I agree, although it depends on the barebones system - most are bargain basement but some are just builder systems that are intended for people like me. Again, I like to shop around after having a good idea of what i want. I've seen an FSB get melted on a cheap motherboard so i hear you.
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I don't necessarily need all around performance. Just several cores and VM support. So yeah, my box will probably be cpu heavy. I found a computer with an i9 beast like that for about $3k on amazon without really trying.
Real programmers use butterflies
I have found i7-9750H to be fine for development with 6 cores (12 hyper-threaded). I have 32GB RAM and 512GB nvme m.2 ssd and can choose between intel integrated gfx or NVidia. This is in a laptop running linux that cost about $1800. Something similar in a desktop could probably be built for <$1000 excluding NVidia gfx, not including monitors, just the cpu box and internals. I no longer run VMs, but I used to some time ago, and this config should do fine...currently use Docker for multi-machine systems development.
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I'll be running a machine with multiple VMs so I want cores to spare. 8 cores is more than enough. 4 is about minimum. I'll need the various VM bells and whistles like HyperV support and VTx whatever of course. I don't really game per se, though for this kind of money I wouldn't mind being able to game with the machine if i wanted to. i play the fallout franchise at least. I'm considering either an i7-9700(k?) or an i9-9900 or whatever. I think the i9 will come down this year and be in budget. *knock on wood* anyone use either of these CPUs heavily and can tell me, particularly when using VMs if they're happy with it, or if they would have gone better in retrospect? Or any alternatives to suggest? (I strongly prefer Intel to AMD cpus) I'm curious mostly, leaning toward the i9 for future proofing, assuming it's not still bleeding edge by the time i buy and i can afford it.
Real programmers use butterflies
I've been an Intel fan-boy for years, but with what AMD is doing with the Ryzen stuff, now's a good time to swap-over. Had it not been for some Ryzen issues with the Vive VR setup, I'd probably have AMD'd earlier. With today's CPU selection, you really can't go wrong with either, but AMD is quickly feeling like the more cost-efficient option. As for GPU, of course it should be a NVidia. I personally use the gtx1060, and it's been plenty for my needs.
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I think i'll be okay with 32GB as right now I'm running one VM with VS and win installed on an 8GB machine :laugh: . my OS setup is similar to yours - linux hosts win VMs. But I won't need more than say, three. and none will be doing constant work except the one i'm working in. What i mean is i'm not running databases or webservers or anything in them, or at least not ones where perf matters. I'll definitely be looking for a board that can support more than 32GB though. And if i did game with it, i wouldn't mind dual booting for that, though i doubt i will game with it. I have a console for fallout :)
Real programmers use butterflies
Actually, I said a machine *capable* of being upgraded to 64gb...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I think my main reason for the Intel preference comes from the bad old days of AMD being behind in lithographic tech, and their chips running hotter and sucking more juice as a result. Or before that when their FP processing sucked. Of course, that's all in the past (I think?) But I've followed Intel CPUs over AMD because of it, and I just have a good feel for what a good Intel is vs a bad one, and I don't have the same feel for AMD - at least not yet. So I don't really know what I'm buying. How much cache is enough for an AMD 12core? for example. I can figure out baselines for intel's chips based on past experience and review knowledge i've accrued at say overclock.net. I haven't done that same legwork on AMD over the years so their lineup is largely opaque to me. And maybe it's time i changed that. I'll give the ryzens a look.
Real programmers use butterflies
I've been using AMD CPUs since forever.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I'll be running a machine with multiple VMs so I want cores to spare. 8 cores is more than enough. 4 is about minimum. I'll need the various VM bells and whistles like HyperV support and VTx whatever of course. I don't really game per se, though for this kind of money I wouldn't mind being able to game with the machine if i wanted to. i play the fallout franchise at least. I'm considering either an i7-9700(k?) or an i9-9900 or whatever. I think the i9 will come down this year and be in budget. *knock on wood* anyone use either of these CPUs heavily and can tell me, particularly when using VMs if they're happy with it, or if they would have gone better in retrospect? Or any alternatives to suggest? (I strongly prefer Intel to AMD cpus) I'm curious mostly, leaning toward the i9 for future proofing, assuming it's not still bleeding edge by the time i buy and i can afford it.
Real programmers use butterflies
You'll be doing plenty good with any i7 that's being sold in stores today as brand new. An i9 will get you future-proofed for a while longer still. I can't even remember how old my i7-4820K is, since it's been a few years--it's only 4 cores (+ hyperthreading), but it's plenty fast for my use - with 64GB of RAM, right now I have 8 VMs running simultaneously 24/7 (sometimes more), with memory allocated to each varying anywhere between 1.5 and 8GB. Get big, fat SSDs to host your VMs. I started off with a pair of 512GB, and have since added a single 2TB (not including the boot drive). Before that, I was using an i7-2600K, and the main reason I moved away from it is that I wanted to repurpose it as my gaming box (still in use today) and 32GB wasn't enough for the number of VMs I wanted to run side-by-side. That was otherwise also plenty fast. And of course now that my main VM host has 64GB, I'd really rather have it run with 128...but those boards were few and far in-between back when I purchased it. But I wouldn't settle for anything less than an i7 to host VMs. I have an i5-based NUC with 32GB of RAM, and when it's running more than 4 VMs at once, they all start to feel sluggish. This is where an i7 (or better) really makes a difference, IMO.
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I have found i7-9750H to be fine for development with 6 cores (12 hyper-threaded). I have 32GB RAM and 512GB nvme m.2 ssd and can choose between intel integrated gfx or NVidia. This is in a laptop running linux that cost about $1800. Something similar in a desktop could probably be built for <$1000 excluding NVidia gfx, not including monitors, just the cpu box and internals. I no longer run VMs, but I used to some time ago, and this config should do fine...currently use Docker for multi-machine systems development.
thank you, that's good to know
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'll be running a machine with multiple VMs so I want cores to spare. 8 cores is more than enough. 4 is about minimum. I'll need the various VM bells and whistles like HyperV support and VTx whatever of course. I don't really game per se, though for this kind of money I wouldn't mind being able to game with the machine if i wanted to. i play the fallout franchise at least. I'm considering either an i7-9700(k?) or an i9-9900 or whatever. I think the i9 will come down this year and be in budget. *knock on wood* anyone use either of these CPUs heavily and can tell me, particularly when using VMs if they're happy with it, or if they would have gone better in retrospect? Or any alternatives to suggest? (I strongly prefer Intel to AMD cpus) I'm curious mostly, leaning toward the i9 for future proofing, assuming it's not still bleeding edge by the time i buy and i can afford it.
Real programmers use butterflies
I am a total AMD fan so, naturally, I would advocate their CPUs. I have a bit of a bias against their video cards though because of previous bad experiences with them. Anyway, I went to newegg and configured a system and saved it as a wish list. It has a 2060 video card just in case you might want to experiment with ray tracing. If that holds no interest to you then you can save a bit of money with a less expensive card. As it is, it comes in at $1820. Here's a link : wishlist system[^]. If nothing else, it's something to consider. Have Fun. -edit- That has a 2TB M.2 drive, 32GB RAM, and a 750W PSU. Those can likely be scaled back if you prefer and/or want to save some money for a really nice monitor(s).
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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I am a total AMD fan so, naturally, I would advocate their CPUs. I have a bit of a bias against their video cards though because of previous bad experiences with them. Anyway, I went to newegg and configured a system and saved it as a wish list. It has a 2060 video card just in case you might want to experiment with ray tracing. If that holds no interest to you then you can save a bit of money with a less expensive card. As it is, it comes in at $1820. Here's a link : wishlist system[^]. If nothing else, it's something to consider. Have Fun. -edit- That has a 2TB M.2 drive, 32GB RAM, and a 750W PSU. Those can likely be scaled back if you prefer and/or want to save some money for a really nice monitor(s).
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
I use a 55" TV as a monitor already. The rest of the specs actually seem like what I'm after although i'll see if the drive is NVMe? i think M.2 implies it is? i'll look. Keep in mind i'm not buying right away so any of these systems are going to be cheaper by the time i buy. I figure in my budget i can get just below bleeding edge for the stuff i *want* and the rest to be acceptable. I need room for lots of ram and i need lots of cores. I'll start with 32GB of RAM. Video card is meh as I am at best a casual gamer and I have a console but it would be nice if i could play with gaming on it, just for kicks. For that kind of money it should, so long as i had a mid range video card it would do me fine - i've had good luck getting gaming cards on the cheap on ebay from people who have to have the latest all the time and sell off their newish cards as soon as the next nvidia is out Eventually, - not for this system - but for my fancy system, it won't be a speed demon, but it will have zero moving parts. Copper cauliflower heatsink and convection power supply, probably in a bespoke case i get milled. yeah, wood. or maybe a custom glass metal job.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I use a 55" TV as a monitor already. The rest of the specs actually seem like what I'm after although i'll see if the drive is NVMe? i think M.2 implies it is? i'll look. Keep in mind i'm not buying right away so any of these systems are going to be cheaper by the time i buy. I figure in my budget i can get just below bleeding edge for the stuff i *want* and the rest to be acceptable. I need room for lots of ram and i need lots of cores. I'll start with 32GB of RAM. Video card is meh as I am at best a casual gamer and I have a console but it would be nice if i could play with gaming on it, just for kicks. For that kind of money it should, so long as i had a mid range video card it would do me fine - i've had good luck getting gaming cards on the cheap on ebay from people who have to have the latest all the time and sell off their newish cards as soon as the next nvidia is out Eventually, - not for this system - but for my fancy system, it won't be a speed demon, but it will have zero moving parts. Copper cauliflower heatsink and convection power supply, probably in a bespoke case i get milled. yeah, wood. or maybe a custom glass metal job.
Real programmers use butterflies
If you are into custom cases, check www.guru3d.com and their monthly contest. I have seen a few wooden ones and all kinds of wild stuff. Linkage : The Guru3D Rig of the Month[^]
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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If you are into custom cases, check www.guru3d.com and their monthly contest. I have seen a few wooden ones and all kinds of wild stuff. Linkage : The Guru3D Rig of the Month[^]
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
That's cool.
Real programmers use butterflies
