I knew i was suspicious of python for a reason

[honey the codewitch]

Yeah, it's a keyword. It's like a non-op used to cajole the parser into accepting a "statement" where you don't want one. Or at least that's what I've gleaned of it so far. There may be other uses. In any case, it's ridiculous.

Real programmers use butterflies

[PIEBALDconsult]

Always be wary of scripting languages.

[kalberts]

Some are worse than others. Tcl is far worse than Python. This is not an objection to your statement. Quite to the contrary. Scripting languages are bad.

[honey the codewitch]

I generally am. I haven't found one I like yet.

Real programmers use butterflies

[Gary R Wheeler]

honey the codewitch wrote:

Pass seems like it should never exist in any language.

;

The equivalent of Python's pass in C, C++, and C#. Most useful as a loop body when the loop construct does all of the work.

Software Zen: delete this;

[honey the codewitch]

ah, fair enough. Gosh, I don't like the look of it though.

Real programmers use butterflies

[Brady Kelly]

The Python seems more readable that the statement with a ternary expression. I have just started learning python, but the `if/else` is very clear to me.

"'Do what thou wilt...' is to bid Stars to shine, Vines to bear grapes, Water to seek its level; man is the only being in Nature that has striven to set himself at odds with himself." —Aleister Crowley

[Member 9167057]

The different order of notation doesn't seem that worthy of a WTF. That's just a bit getting used to, nothing more. The real WTFs with Python I've seen are negative notation for hexadecimal numbers instead of two's complement and the inability to find the entry point in anything remotely complex because Python doesn't have a main method, it's just a script language evaluating from the top. Doesn't help when debugging control flow.

[Peter Shaw]

HA HA HA.... Excellent. COBOL 2 point O What goes around, comes around.

[obermd]

honey the codewitch wrote:

and then there's pass. Pass seems like it should never exist in any language.

And the rest is a Fail.

[Chris Maunder]

I always feel dirty when there's the need to do that. I usually just unravel the loop construct so there's a loop body.

cheers Chris Maunder

[Kirk 10389821]

As someone who taught a few CS courses... for a NEW programmer, the Python Syntax makes MORE sense than the C style syntax. x = 3 if I_Need_A_Small_Number else 3333 which is even cleaner in error checking: addError("You can't have this") if X = 0 addError("You can't have this") if Y = 0 ... showErrors() This was a feature of DEC Basic-Plus 2 (I called it an outside if) and in a world where something had to be tweaked in a block of code, and you did not want to affect program flow... Wow, it was a gift. The C syntax is best explained as a "fake function" IIF() => X = IIF(cond, true_val, false_val); but invariably the kids ask the correct question: Wouldn't that be BETTER/CLEARER syntax? (And I would explain that is why we have a PRE-PROCESSOR, LOL). And again, I LOVE the PL/SQL DECODE() statement, which is "?:" on Steroids: X = Decode(v0, V1, R1, V2, R2, V3, R3, R4) -> Where R4 (the extra param is the ELSE condition) It is literally a CASE statement in function form! That said. Python has ONE THING I absolutely hate. THE WHITESPACE inequity. I wish they treated a single tab as 2 spaces. Life would be simply. My editors convert Tabs to spaces. But ONLY when I edit a line. OMFG this *might* be bad in Python. LOL.

[englebart]

Sounds like Fortran's CONTINUE statement. Basically a NO-OP. It was used to help structure loops or it could be the target of a GOTO.

[honey the codewitch]

significant whitespace in a programming language is just a terrible idea

Real programmers use butterflies

[patbob]

I don't get the hate on python. It's a typical 1980s language. It is what it is because it's a product of the time it was invented in. You can't apply today's values to a language whose syntax was designed almost 40 years ago and expect it to hold up. Yeah, I know C was around back then, and is the dominant syntax today, but back then, C didn't have much penetration and Fortran was king. Python is kind of an ugly stepchild of Fortran, and shows it.

I live in Oregon, and I'm an engineer.

[honey the codewitch]

patbob wrote:

Python is kind of an ugly stepchild of Fortran

The explains a lot. Honestly, I didn't know Python was that old. However, significant whitespace there's really no excuse for in any language, as the problems with it - both lexing it and using it - were pretty well known by the 1980s, AFAIK. :sigh: That's why i'll never adopt it. Half my editors won't even work with it very well. (tabs to spaces can easily kill a python program)

Real programmers use butterflies

[Frank Malcolm]

Fortran didn't require any whitespace. If you were parsing DO2I=1 you might have an assignment statement or, if the next symbol was a comma, a DO loop. How about DO2INUMBR(JPARM1,KPARM2,LPARM3)=LRESLT(MINDEX,INDEX2,INDEX3) You still don't yet know if it's a DO loop or an assignment!

[honey the codewitch]

*cries*

Real programmers use butterflies

[Gary R Wheeler]

Same here. I have an inherent distrust of while loops with more than 3 or so condition expressions, and I despise for loops with termination conditions that are unrelated to the iteration.

Software Zen: delete this;

[Gary R Wheeler]

Peter Shaw wrote:

COBOL 2 point O

One of my claims to fame is that I've successfully avoided learning COBOL, even though a couple of my positions had me skidding really close to it. I seem to remember one of the [dis]honorable mentions in the Obfuscated C/C++ Contest was a header file that let you write 'C' in a form closely resembling COBOL. As I recall, it was voted "Worst Abuse of the Preprocessor" that year.

Software Zen: delete this;