Is it time to reassess how we build and operate development teams?
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MSBassSinger wrote:
Would you be willing to expand on that, for those of us who never worked for Boeing?
I never worked there; they were a lot in the news, always with a similar topic. The Insider News[^] The Insider News[^] New 737 Max software glitch discovered - CNN[^] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/faa-finds-potential-flaw-boeing-737-max-software-updates-n1022516[^] Blackout Bug: Boeing 737 cockpit screens go blank if pilots land on specific runways • The Register[^] There were a lot more articles (in a half-year period); the gist is that they were outsourcing software-development to a cheaper country, that NASA wanted to re-evalaute the software they got from Boeing, and the news that a test-traject of 27 months had been reduced to 11 months.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If
Thanks for adding those links. No, what I wrote has nothing in common with Boeing or its outsourcing. I do not believe that outsourcing, especially to cheap foreign labor overseas or domestically via H1-B, is a good idea. In almost all cases, the work product is flawed and requires substantial fixing by in-house staff, and put intellectual property (IP) in jeopardy.
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I figured this is a good place to get pro and con feedback. Soup to Nuts in Software Development[^]
Since "software-engineering" isn't, it takes skill to develop good software. Most of the time, that skill isn't there, regardless of how you structure things. If someone doesn't "own" it, it never gets done right.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Since "software-engineering" isn't, it takes skill to develop good software. Most of the time, that skill isn't there, regardless of how you structure things. If someone doesn't "own" it, it never gets done right.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Since "software-engineering" isn't
Actually, it is. "Engineering" as a noun means: "the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures." I have done software engineering for real engines, machines, and structures, and the definition equally applies to virtual equivalents. Coders may not take an engineering approach, but I (and many others) do. That includes using value engineering.[
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Definition of software engineering : a branch of computer science that deals with the design, implementation, and maintenance of complex computer programs
](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/software engineering)[^]
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Since "software-engineering" isn't
Actually, it is. "Engineering" as a noun means: "the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures." I have done software engineering for real engines, machines, and structures, and the definition equally applies to virtual equivalents. Coders may not take an engineering approach, but I (and many others) do. That includes using value engineering.[
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Definition of software engineering : a branch of computer science that deals with the design, implementation, and maintenance of complex computer programs
](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/software engineering)[^]
Unless you can also "think" and "know" your problem domain, what you call "engineering" in software, is just repeating someone else's mistakes; and mostly copy and paste. (The ever popular "Hospital Management System" keeps coming to mind. Codez plz.)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Unless you can also "think" and "know" your problem domain, what you call "engineering" in software, is just repeating someone else's mistakes; and mostly copy and paste. (The ever popular "Hospital Management System" keeps coming to mind. Codez plz.)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
If one cannot "think" and "know" - and I add, "knowing why", that person will remain just a coder.
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I figured this is a good place to get pro and con feedback. Soup to Nuts in Software Development[^]
There is a case to be made for specialist PMs and Scrum Masters, and an equally valid case to be made for keeping the whole project within the software team. It depends on the scale of the project and the familiarity of the knowledge domain to the developers. Different solutions will be optimal for projects of different sizes and complexity.
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There is a case to be made for specialist PMs and Scrum Masters, and an equally valid case to be made for keeping the whole project within the software team. It depends on the scale of the project and the familiarity of the knowledge domain to the developers. Different solutions will be optimal for projects of different sizes and complexity.
Your statement is 100% correct if what I wrote is applied as a plan for “one size fits all”. However, the article discusses principles, not a plan, that is scalable from a single small team up through a large, multi-team software shop. I mentioned in an earlier response that BAs could be used as scribes for larger projects. But the key is that when BAs and PMs can be justified, they report to a team lead or software development manager who is a practicing software engineer with the multidisciplinary knowledge, skills, and abilities mentioned in the article. Non-software engineers should not be in the driver’s seat for software projects if one wants success and excellence.
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I figured this is a good place to get pro and con feedback. Soup to Nuts in Software Development[^]
I don't like it. My team has 1 dev, 1 BA, 1 PO and 1 QA, and our velocity greatly exceeds that of a team with 6 devs doing multidisciplinary work. I rely on my team every day. ♥️
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I don't like it. My team has 1 dev, 1 BA, 1 PO and 1 QA, and our velocity greatly exceeds that of a team with 6 devs doing multidisciplinary work. I rely on my team every day. ♥️
That is great that it works for you. Maybe you and your team don’t have the multidisciplinary knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs) to pull off a “Soup to Nuts” process. Many organizations don’t hire team leads with those KSAs. As to your claim about velocity and 6 devs with interdisciplinary skills (which was not what the article described), how do you know? What can you compare your team’s productivity to? I wrote the article from experience doing both and analyzing how both processes work. I found the productivity and quality of work to be higher with the kind of team I described.
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I figured this is a good place to get pro and con feedback. Soup to Nuts in Software Development[^]
Just a comment, in South Africa a lot of the development is done in the manner as described in the article, only the large dev houses etc have the resources to utilize so many additional members to a development team who do not produce code. Most SME's have small dev or customization teams that cover many roles amongst its members. I'd say its one of the attractions for international companies in attracting the local talent here as the depth of experience is a lot broader than a strictly segmented dev path.
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There is a case to be made for specialist PMs and Scrum Masters, and an equally valid case to be made for keeping the whole project within the software team. It depends on the scale of the project and the familiarity of the knowledge domain to the developers. Different solutions will be optimal for projects of different sizes and complexity.
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There is a case to be made for specialist PMs and Scrum Masters, and an equally valid case to be made for keeping the whole project within the software team
I agree - that is exactly the assessment that a seasoned, multidisciplinary team lead or software manager needs to make in cooperation with the manager(s) of the PM(s), BA(s), and Scrum Master(s). Defining specific roles and duties of the ad hoc members of the team, when their presence is justified, takes the engineering and other multidisciplinary abilities of the team lead in conjunction with the PM(s), BA(s), and Scrum Master(s) - and the buy-in and cooperation of the development team (Developers and QA).
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Just a comment, in South Africa a lot of the development is done in the manner as described in the article, only the large dev houses etc have the resources to utilize so many additional members to a development team who do not produce code. Most SME's have small dev or customization teams that cover many roles amongst its members. I'd say its one of the attractions for international companies in attracting the local talent here as the depth of experience is a lot broader than a strictly segmented dev path.
Thanks for the international perspective.