State Machines - my brain won't do what I want it to
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
I'll assume you mean finite state machines...
honey the codewitch wrote:
I don't want to lead with something contrived
They're all contrived. I dunno, but now you have me wondering how close to a finite state machine my JSON reader is.
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I've really done it. Ever since I wrote my GLR parser generator, which can create parsers that even parse human language I have run out of things to code. I jumped the shark. Now I've been slumming it writing small tips instead of whole articles.
Real programmers use butterflies
I am having a slum in my motivation too... since I got stopped on my UI math problem... (like.. 3 years ago?) Although.. I started my app recently and got a few new ideas! :) But then, I started playing Assassin's Creed: Odyssey again! ^_^ I think the key here is, are there anything you want to learn? That's what usually start the creative juice again! ;) Like even now, every now and then, there is a new tech that popup at work that make do some more homework. Like Blazor, Blazor is cool. Though I am holding off for the official WebAssembly release now!
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
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I am having a slum in my motivation too... since I got stopped on my UI math problem... (like.. 3 years ago?) Although.. I started my app recently and got a few new ideas! :) But then, I started playing Assassin's Creed: Odyssey again! ^_^ I think the key here is, are there anything you want to learn? That's what usually start the creative juice again! ;) Like even now, every now and then, there is a new tech that popup at work that make do some more homework. Like Blazor, Blazor is cool. Though I am holding off for the official WebAssembly release now!
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
Yeah I thought about learning Blazor but I have little reason to do web dev anymore, except maybe writing blazor components for other people to use. Still, WebAssembly seems iffy to me to use for a production website, if only because I can't imagine the load times on a large blazor app given how WebAssembly works. Then again, if it's all demand loaded maybe it's not so bad, but I don't see how they can demand load parts of System.dll (or equiv) for example. Then again, I've never used it - only read about it and have a fair understanding of the general principle, being a more refined, evolved version of web based virtual machines compared to asm.js (which I'm familiar with)
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'll assume you mean finite state machines...
honey the codewitch wrote:
I don't want to lead with something contrived
They're all contrived. I dunno, but now you have me wondering how close to a finite state machine my JSON reader is.
Heh @ implementing non-finite state machines inside an LBA finite state machine AKA a computer. I don't know if they're all contrived. I bet your JSON reader uses a state machine if it chunks (rather than reading the entire JSON stream at once) - mine is - I wrote one too because I wanted something fast for bulk processing.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Yeah I thought about learning Blazor but I have little reason to do web dev anymore, except maybe writing blazor components for other people to use. Still, WebAssembly seems iffy to me to use for a production website, if only because I can't imagine the load times on a large blazor app given how WebAssembly works. Then again, if it's all demand loaded maybe it's not so bad, but I don't see how they can demand load parts of System.dll (or equiv) for example. Then again, I've never used it - only read about it and have a fair understanding of the general principle, being a more refined, evolved version of web based virtual machines compared to asm.js (which I'm familiar with)
Real programmers use butterflies
Have a look.... This is NOT Blazor, but it's a Ginormous WebAssembly demo... [https://windowstoolkit-wasm.platform.uno/\](https://windowstoolkit-wasm.platform.uno/) My first page load is... indeed taking sometime.. :o Although.. For Blazor WebAssembly they do a lot of work on trimming down everything... And the runtime will be cached using HTML5 file access for longer persistance.. And app themselves are usually pretty small... I guess we shall see soon, the release ETA is sometimes this month! :)
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
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Have a look.... This is NOT Blazor, but it's a Ginormous WebAssembly demo... [https://windowstoolkit-wasm.platform.uno/\](https://windowstoolkit-wasm.platform.uno/) My first page load is... indeed taking sometime.. :o Although.. For Blazor WebAssembly they do a lot of work on trimming down everything... And the runtime will be cached using HTML5 file access for longer persistance.. And app themselves are usually pretty small... I guess we shall see soon, the release ETA is sometimes this month! :)
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
Yeah, my point was I don't see it scaling well for large or otherwise complex apps with a big codebase. If the US wasn't lagging behind in fiber-to-the-curb it would be more practical here because you wouldn't still have people on 3Mbps connections
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
Most of the FSMs I've written were for low level communications protocols (think HDLC/X.25, SDLC/SNA). Never did implement the new-fangled TCP/IP. ;P One interesting side-effect of implementing some of the older ones (Bisync flavours, anyone?) was proving that the protocols as documented were incomplete. They needed a catch-all state "Human intervention required". Maybe a toy poll/response protocol? Two interacting FSMs, one for master, one for slave. Cheers, Peter
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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I've really done it. Ever since I wrote my GLR parser generator, which can create parsers that even parse human language I have run out of things to code. I jumped the shark. Now I've been slumming it writing small tips instead of whole articles.
Real programmers use butterflies
Make a tool to create languages...
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
There are quite a few real-world examples if you think in overview what a FSM requires: 1) Inputs that brought the machine to this state 2) The current state of the machine and the outputs that arriving there generated 3) The new state the machine will have as a response to new inputs So: navigating a vehicle on an small island could be modeled as an FSM. A drinks vending machine. Traffic lights (sooooo simple, very small set of states). Voting systems (could get humorous). Good luck!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Most of the FSMs I've written were for low level communications protocols (think HDLC/X.25, SDLC/SNA). Never did implement the new-fangled TCP/IP. ;P One interesting side-effect of implementing some of the older ones (Bisync flavours, anyone?) was proving that the protocols as documented were incomplete. They needed a catch-all state "Human intervention required". Maybe a toy poll/response protocol? Two interacting FSMs, one for master, one for slave. Cheers, Peter
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
That's an interesting idea. I'll consider it. It also made me think of another idea involving an asynchronous implementation of an HTTP request/response cycle.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Make a tool to create languages...
I've already created a lot of tools for building compiler front-ends. I even developed my own language (actually a subset of C#) for reasons. This however, would be too complicated for the examples I intend to present.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I've already created a lot of tools for building compiler front-ends. I even developed my own language (actually a subset of C#) for reasons. This however, would be too complicated for the examples I intend to present.
Real programmers use butterflies
You said you were bored. Think greater! A program for generating any language! :laugh: An 'inverse-parser' if you will! It could spit out anything, and each syntax could take experts hundreds of years to decipher (or you could make that your next project!) :laugh: :laugh:
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
There was a QA a while ago about 'decoding' some data - the eventual solution was proposed using a RegEx - I was in two minds about it, I personally would have used a state-machine, or maybe it was a 'borderline case' (as opposed to me, 'nut case')
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all
Do you own a car ? Think about any car part that is based on electronics or electrical actors -> It runs a state machine. Embedded is full of state machines. Actually, state machines are the AI of embedded world.
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
An example that could grow into something non-trivial, but that everyone understands, is a set of four traffic lights.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
If you can't think of a real world example then maybe it's not something people particularly need to know about?
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
When I hear "state machine" I think of games. Maybe you could write something about that? Also, don't know if I used it right, but I once used a state machine for order processing. The order could go from "ordered" to "paid" and "paid" to shipped, but never "ordered" to "shipped", or something like that. It was a bit more complicated than that, but it's been a while so I don't remember, but it was something like that.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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I'm trying to come with a simple article on building state machines. I figured it wouldn't be too complicated, nor should it be since I wanted the article to be accessible to beginners. The trouble is, I can't think of a simple example of a state machine that is real world at all, and I don't want to lead with something contrived because I also want to explain the "why" of state machines with a practical example. This shouldn't be very complicated. I've been writing state machines for various things since the mid 1980s. In all that time I must have done something simple, especially since I was coding on a 16-bit machine back in the beginning. Grrrr
Real programmers use butterflies
How about an elevator. Or a set of elevators in a building, programmed to most efficiently seek a state of best efficiency to service the next floor request when at rest. ...er *puff* yeah... something like that...
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How about an elevator. Or a set of elevators in a building, programmed to most efficiently seek a state of best efficiency to service the next floor request when at rest. ...er *puff* yeah... something like that...
That takes me back a LONG time to my student days. It was an assignment I remember, writing something exactly like this in assembly on some 8 bit processor (6809 rings a vague bell). Can't remember how, but our programs could then be loaded into a board based computer connected to a miniature elevator for everyone to have a go at defeating other people's software. The tricky bit was deciding when to accept and when to ignore a request from a button push on a given floor or if e.g. someone presses a button to request a lift to take the up, then gets in and presses the button for a lower floor. Decisions would then be based on all the "in-lift" requests plus the "out of lift" requests plus the current direction of travel. Surprising fun and games for such a simple system.
