Is CS not meant for beginners or do I have severe ADHD?
-
My background is in science, though I did sit an exam in Java (writing code with pen and paper) and I code a little bit as part of my work (Java, JS and some PHP mostly) so I can't speak about CS specifically and so what I write might or might not be relevant! First of all: have you actually seen any past or mock exam questions? Maybe you are overthinking it, lecturers generally focus exams on a core number of themes as they don't expect students to know everything. Often the same recycled questions are dressed differently. Doing a degree is just the beginning, the real skill comes later when you put it into practice for a few years. Lecturers know this and usually throw a lot of stuff at you but test mainly the core plus their own pet favourite topics (of course they make it extra hard to earn a distinction though). They often also place emphasis during lectures on what they aim to examine. It pays to be 'in-tune' with the lecturers so attending all classes certainly helps. Exam Qs often look harder than they really are. That said, to get a high grade requires more than the minimum asked for. Try to understand what they are really looking for and focus your efforts accordingly. Second point. When I was learning to code I dabbled with several different languages, which was confusing at the time but paid off later. I went from struggling with the material, to coding but getting frustrated with bugs and other issues, to simply enjoying coding as it became more effortless with practice. Something just clicked one day, but only after many days of frustrating work. 'Rome wasn't built in a day', as they say. Third point. Once you learn one language thoroughly, others become 10 times easier. Perhaps rather than just learning a bit of each, focus on one you feel most comfortable with first then the others should become easier. You can't learn several until you have learned one. Reading books helps, but in the end writing code to solve your own problems is probably the best way to learn. Online hands-on coding tutorials can be very useful. Finally, if it really seems too tough then remember you can get a coding job without a CS degree, you just need to be confident with the required skills and tools (and highly skilled in interview techniques).
Thank you for your reply. As I already told, I took a week of and was programming so I couldn't read all the posts and answer too them. I feel like I would like to only focus on learning java but I don't really have a choice and have to learn PHP too... and worst with data bases... X| But I just ignore it for the moment, maybe I will be forced to retake the course later.
-
My son is attempting to do a University course with a lot of CS subjects this year at Monash University. He is really struggling. He was a 94 ATAR student last year - at a good school and is pretty smart. A lot of the observations he makes are similar to yours. My observation is that the online format does not translate well to University. At least the way Monash seems to be doing it. The large lecture theatre size classes do not lend themselves to deep questions, and the video sessions appear to be by themselves of low value. Along with that - lack of human contact is debilitating for some peoples motivation. Everyone says that first year University is hard, because it's a mental shift from High School - but I think this year is particularly hard because of COVID and many organisations being caught with their pants down. Fingers crossed, if you can stick it out - things will improve for next year.
Sorry for late reply. I like the online format because I like to learn by myself, but what I think is hard is that everything is going to fast and definitly is not meant for a beginner. I feel like it's impossible to make a program in Java Swing or Java FX in object oriented manner after learning OOP one week ago... Well I'm lucky I learn what it is before I started my college courses. I feel sorry for total beginners though... It takes time to understand those concepts and it takes more time to practice them. Like where is time to practice, when I also have to study for exams in PHP and databases and propositional logic and make UML diagrams too... I don't even see my family anymore, because I have to keep up to the material and study seven days a week with some pauses to whine here on the forum :-D . I didn't even have time to give you all my replies.
-
Member 14971499 wrote:
They want to get rid of us who are beginners and unexperienced and focus on grinding only the real diamonds of programming.
Sorry... but that is bullsh1t. Get rid of many... yes. But keep the real diamonds of programming... totally wrong. Being able to pass exams in the university has nothing to do with being a good programmer. I know a lot of very good programmers who have no studies and are self taught. And I had a lot of co-students that were passing the exams even with good marks but then couldn't do anything useful in the real world. I had myself a lot of problems at the beginning of my studies because I had the feeling of not learning enough. Then I was afraid of the exams because I pushed myself down like you. Somewhen I just realized that to pass the exams I didn't need to know all the stuff properly. So I changed my mindset. I focused in passing the exams and learned later what I thought it was more important for me. Besides from all the academic content that I learned during the studies I have only needed a small part in my professional life. The most important things I learned where actually "passive" or "non academic" skills, like how to use logic to find the root of a problem, how to learn by myself, how to discriminate relevant from non relevant information in a text and things like that. Once I started working in the automation, I had to almost start over, because it was mostly new stuff I had not seen during studies. One of the most important things you have to understand is... the degree will only be useful for your very first job. Afterwards experience and successfull projects are more important than what you studied. TL;DR: Learn how to pass the exams and get the degree, get your first job, then learn what you need in your job while look for a better job that fits better what you like.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
Thank you for your reply ;) Sorry I'm late with my reply. I was studying and took a week off. It really makes me feel better, because I was feeling extremly dumb :((
Member 14971499 wrote:
Thank you for your reply
You are welcome
Member 14971499 wrote:
Sorry I'm late with my reply.
No problem at all.
Member 14971499 wrote:
I was studying and took a week off.
I hope it was successful :)
Member 14971499 wrote:
It really makes me feel better,
Nice :)
Member 14971499 wrote:
because I was feeling extremly dumb
That's what they try. Focus on passing the exams, specially the first 3 semesters. The good stuff comes at the end, where everything is way less populated.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
Member 14971499 wrote:
They want to get rid of us who are beginners and unexperienced and focus on grinding only the real diamonds of programming.
That's pretty much the conclusion I came to during my first year of computer science. IMO, high school counselors are either full of sh1t, ignorant, or complicit, or a combination of all three. They kept telling us kids while in high school that college/university were really hard to get into. Just as a scare tactic to keep us in check and study hard. Yeah, study hard, but don't lie to kids as for the reasons. From my perspective? No, it's NOT hard to get yourself accepted. At least back in my day, when coding still wasn't so mainstream (not that it is today, but bear with me) they knew people were joining because they had heard it "paid well", even if they didn't have the discipline or motivation and really didn't belong in that field. Don't learn something because "it pays well", that's a *terrible* reason to do it. But that doesn't matter; they'll accept practically anyone, and during the first year, they'll throw everything at you to drive you to quit and provide you with no support. Why? To maximize profits. Universities are run like businesses; the more people they can cram in during the first year, the more money they make. You quit, they get to keep that money. It's pure gravy. For subsequent years, it gets harder and harder to get qualified people to teach the material, so the smaller the classes, the fewer teachers they need on payroll, and the more manageable the teacher's workload. It's now decades later, and nobody's managed to convince me otherwise. *That* is the lesson I learned right after high school, and that lesson is NOT taught when you need it the most. Back to your situation: Make of that what you will. Just don't be surprised if you feel like they're trying to weed you out. They are.
:-D Thank's sorry for late reply. So that is how it works... They are after the money :-\ That make sense, becuase it so strange that the requierments for college application were so low while the degree itself is really hard to take. Your comment was very insightfull, have a nice day :)
-
The problem is that CS is a complicated field, which a massive variety of subfields: in terms of languages alone there are dozens that are in common use in the real world, and each of those is used with different aims in mind, with different parts of the frameworks available being used depending on the task. Just in terms of environments under which an application will run, there are four main contenders: Windows, Web, iPhone, Android: and each of them uses a different framework (or frameworks - there are many different ones in each environment!. Some environments traditionally enforce a specific language: Java for Android, Objective C for Apple, HTML / Javascript plus a backend language for web based. So there is a huge amount to learn: the course doesn't know what you are going to be good at or interested in so it has to - initially at least - give you an overview of everything so that you know that it exists even if you can't really code in it (and trust me on this, almost nobody leaves a degree course in CS being able to code well in any language, much as their exam results may beg to differ!) And there's the rub: out in the real world, you have to keep switching about - you can't just focus on one thing for a long period of time, because everyone else is waiting for that bit so their bits can work. And you have to keep on learning, all the time - new ideas, new methods, new frameworks, new languages ... it never ends! It takes a specific mindset to do this, not that many people have it, and as far as I know it can't be taught - it has to be learned and that's a big difference! I'd suggest talking to your tutor, and seeing what he can suggest or do to help - if nothing else this will be a problem he has met before and he knows you better than we do.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Thanks for your reply, sorry I'm late with it. I took a week off just to program some real stuff and see if my programming skills go anywhere. And actually it was a good choice. I learnt a lot and gained confidence in myself. It looks like I'm not that dumb as I thought. I really progressed so maybe I have a chance to work as a programmer if I keep up studying and practicing. At least i hope it will lead to a job someday. Have a nice day :)
-
You're forgetting the third possibility, it could be both. ;P
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
-
Thanks for your reply, sorry I'm late with it. I took a week off just to program some real stuff and see if my programming skills go anywhere. And actually it was a good choice. I learnt a lot and gained confidence in myself. It looks like I'm not that dumb as I thought. I really progressed so maybe I have a chance to work as a programmer if I keep up studying and practicing. At least i hope it will lead to a job someday. Have a nice day :)
You're welcome! Good luck.:thumbsup:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
I think it helps to have Asperger's syndrome. I can focus on my studies in spite of distractions, especially when doing something that requires little thinking. When I was in college, I worked multiple jobs earning money to cover my living and tuition costs, including working in a Xerox room, research assistant, in a candy store assembling the Sunday newspapers, and "private service." (As a member of a private service crew, I and my coworkers would provide service staff for private parties, doing such jobs as walking around with trays of drinks or canapes, setting the table for dinner, serving dinner and cleaning up afterward, tending a small bar and all of the other small jobs required to serve 20 to 50 guests in a private residence.) In addition, I worked as a female graduate student's personal servant and typist in exchange for tutoring in math. All of these jobs were part time and I had to keep a calendar to keep my work hours organized (Thank you DayTimer!! I am still a customer today, even though I am now retired.)
It also takes an organized and efficient way of thinking, rapidly breaking down any problem – academic, personal, just plain living – into small pieces that are quickly solvable. with the wide realm of technologies and the speed of technological innovation in computer science, you need to be able to rapidly learn new skills and paradigms.
Computer science is not for everyone. It is a tough, rapidly changing, demanding discipline that requires constant reading and learning.
See OriginalGriff's reply. There are some good suggestions there.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
-
Quote:
Second, your description of your "basic CS course" is so absurd that I think you are making it up.
Yes, I agree, something is fishy about the post.
-
My first weeks at university were also overwhelming. I simply could not follow courses, in part because I had no good study habits. I even failed my first exam. This did not stopped me from finishing the 5 year course on time, with fairly decent grades. It is normal that you feel "dumb", although I doubt that you are. Double down on the effort, pick up good study efforts and evaluate again in a few months. If you come to the conclusion that it is not for you, change. There is no shame in it. The student loan can be daunting, but again relax. Nobody is going to cut-off your head or put you in prison for failing to pay it. Yes, it is a big deal, but not a life and death kind of thing.
-
Probably in these days, college CS programs assume you know how to use a computer and have some programming skills. In my days, it wasn’t the case. We started with basic and wrote for a command line interface. The command line was all they had then. Now, the classes may expect you to write for a windows type user interface and that will demotivate a beginner quickly. And, that’s wrong. Too much catch up. My daughter faced the same when she had her first class in programming where the expectation is that the class would go immediately into programming for Mac and IOS operating systems (windowed experience) using swift. She and the rest of the students in the class were miserable. Now, she is taking a python class and they are teaching her to program to a command line window (the old-fashioned UI). It is much easier and not overwhelming. For you, what ever class you are taking is wrong and the expectations are too high (assuming you are new to programming). Take a single language (basic, python, C) to learn the basics of programming. Then try another language. Then take some classes that focus on program/structural design. Get the basics under you. With a class on one language, it should build on itself. First, you discover the I/O functions so you can communicate with the program and see its behavior. Then you learn more concepts, variables, arrays, functions, other structures. After a couple of programming classes, you can take the class you’re taking now.
-
Hi! Thank you for your great reply. Sorry, that I reply today, but I took a week off just to program and read books on programming games. I didn't even watch my lectures. I started to program a simple strategy game in java on a console (so far). And it's funny because you gave me an advice to do something I'm passionate about, and I actually did and it helped a lot. I learned more than from lectures and from reading usual books so I'm happy and I feel so much better, even if I didn't send my school assignment on time, I gained some confidence. I would like to thank you for your spiritual support too. I'm an athesit and a former christian, but I appreciate your prayers and kindness :) When it comes to programming languages I like java and object oriented principles, but what I don't like are books on java. I learned some basic syntax and concepts in c++ (I don't program in c++ though.) just to be able to understand the books on c++ because they are way better. There are more books on problem solving and game development written for c++ programmers than for java programmers. Java books tend to focus more on prewitten libraries and bank applications and that's not as fun as learning by making games. When it comes to PHP and SQL, well... I'm not that passionate about it right now, because I still learning java and I feel is too much for me at the moment. Okay, so that was it :) Thanks again.
I'm glad to hear you are doing better. Hopefully, you will be able to use your passion in a Special Problems or capstone class someday. The foundational knowledge you are learning now is important, but as you go higher up in your learning, you may find out that the ability to creatively apply your foundational skills is more important than merely being able to reiterate the material. I'm just a staff programmer, but I believe creativity and passion are the key components for successful graduate students and the future leaders in the IT industry. I'm confident in your effort and pursuit. Please remember to find ways to keep Computer Science study relevant to you. I understand CS can be unnecessarily theoretical at times but appropriate coordination with your advisor and professors should allow you to find a learning path that both meets university requirements and allows you to flourish.
-
You'd have six months to catch up on your schooling while learning the ropes. If you think that is "jumping from one thing to another", then yes, you should just throw in the towel. I think you're allergic to work.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
I think you're allergic to work.
Really? :laugh: And how did you come up to that conclusion? I never met you :-D Did you read that from the tarrot cards or see that in a crystal ball? Maybe you should try another fortune teller lol :laugh:
-
:-D Thank's sorry for late reply. So that is how it works... They are after the money :-\ That make sense, becuase it so strange that the requierments for college application were so low while the degree itself is really hard to take. Your comment was very insightfull, have a nice day :)
