Do programmers have a life? Because I feel like I don't have a life anymore
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You are right. But you're doing it wrong. Imagine you're in deep dark forest, full of interesting plants and animals, funny-looking critters and a lot of trails appealing you to new adventures and to write new stories. If you stop to examine in detail each little bug and each and every trail, by the end of the day you'll be in the same situation in which you are now, tired, feeling down and questioning life's sense. And things will go worse each and every day. Do not do that. Enjoy the ride, dude. Follow the main path, when you'll see the road you've been meant to ride you'll know it. In the meanwhile, pass your exams, check a little what frameworks and meteoric languages appear and die around you, learn as much as you can and keep going. And make sure you're having fun all along. If it's not fun than it's not worth it.
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Short answer is NO. Long answer is NO, we don't have a life, we are always facing our bosses' whims and extendin our job time due to their continuous change of mind. Sorry for that
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Member - suck it up. I mean that in an encouraging way. You are in school and they are trying to wash you out. When I started I had 300+ in my class, 52 graduated in 4 years. Suck it up. You do have *no* life. Focus on the prize. The skills when the python virtuoso has no idea how to code up a line. Don't worry about it. Been in the business 40 years. Seen them flaming out - they look pretty in the sky :)
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
charlieg wrote:
When I started I had 300+ in my class, 52 graduated in 4 years.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: Wow... I'm lucky that my college is much more forgiving. Besides, you had to be really skilled to be among those 52.
charlieg wrote:
The skills when the python virtuoso has no idea how to code up a line.
hahaha :laugh:
charlieg wrote:
Don't worry about it. Been in the business 40 years.
Wow, that is really long time :wtf: Thank's for encouragment :)
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When you realize that all this stuff was made up by other people, and some at least not as smart as you, it gets easier. Study smarter, not harder. Take any subject, of the 20 or so books on the subject, only a few are worth picking up (if at all). That goes for videos and tutorials. You have to be discriminating. Even the books that get assigned can be shite ... just remember to parrot what the prof says (whether you agree or not) while "learning". And you don't have to "learn" it all ... The best skill is knowing how to "find" it, when you need it. (Most of ones that frequent Q&A never got that part ... or just lazy / entitled) The biggest fail of the system is "closed book exams" IMO; unless you work in ER or crashing a plane. Closed books is not reality.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Member 14971499 wrote:
I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree
The first thing I learned after graduating is that no matter what is taught, the world will have moved on. It's really the nature of this field. And yet here I am, over a quarter of a century later, still doing it and learning new stuff as I go along. Don't tell yourself you have to know everything to succeed in this field. Learn what they're teaching, but perhaps more importantly "learn how to learn". As someone who's been asked to review resumes and conduct interviews (as much as I hate that) I don't even want to talk to someone fresh out of school who tries his best to know it all - that just won't fly. Rather, if you can demonstrate you know the basics that are expected, and you can learn and adapt, you're in a much better position than burning yourself out before you've even started.
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Member 14971499 wrote:
Yeah, I think I want to learn too many things at the same time out of fear
And that's exactly what might trigger exactly that result. My father always told me... the more you envelope, the less you squeeze. A.k.a. if you try to do many things at the same time, you won't do anyone properly. Focus on what you have to do now, and leave the rest for later. You will have plenty of time to learn what is not in your subjects.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Thank's :) Actually, really good advice :) I'm always so... I don't know how to call it, maybe obsessive. As soon as it goes well for me at my college, I start to learn things that are not school related and when I advance with one thing, I already get this obsession that now it's time for another language, or maybe time to learn another operating system :laugh: or maybe how the computer is build up haha :laugh: Yeah, so stupid... Like I don't need it, but I feel like I have to learn this and than again I fall behind in the college and I'm stressed and depressed and I whine again... :rolleyes: I want to laugh at my own stupidity but it's true... I'm like Mr.Bean of software engineering haha :rolleyes:
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Member 14971499 wrote:
Because if I get kicked out of the school and can't program either, than it's over for me
No, it isn't. You can always learn on your own, not necessarily in college. But having the degree helps to get your first job, so concentrate in passing your exams with the best mark you can get without risking your mental health. Once you get out and get into the real world you will have to learn many things again, because the "academical" programming and the "real-world" programming not always are that similar. Companies are not dumb, if they hire you as a junior developer they won't expect you to be a DevOps or any guru knowing 10 different techonlogies and being able to write an App in a day. Don't stress too much for the whole future, just go one step after another, and right now, you are in college.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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RafagaX wrote:
and when i got my first development job i had to learn VB.NET, for the interview, one day before, as that was the technology they used.
wow... X| How did you manage to do that? In one day? Maybe some people are more immune to stress :~
Actually in one evening, but i didn't learn it in deep, just the basic, how to declare variables functions, calling conventions, arrays, etc.; just enough to be able to do the interview, read code and perhaps make a simple example or two. In the end it wasn't how deep i knew VB.NET, it was my willingness to learn and to keep going, what really impressed them and got me that job.
"Science fiction is any idea that occurs in the head and doesn’t exist yet, but soon will, and will change everything for everybody, and nothing will ever be the same again." Ray Bradbury
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Sounds like you're a little depressed. What you're writing is indeed far from the real world of a programmer. Yes, you have to be creative each and every day, which can be tiring, but that's also the case in other creative jobs. And yes, you have to keep yourself up-to-date for the rest of your life, but it's not going to stay as intense as it is now. As soon as you are a little more experienced and have found your niche in a technology that you like and that is modern enough to keep your employment chances alive, you can sort of settle down for a few years and only specialize deeper in what you already know. But you're also right that software engineering IS crazy. ;-)
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I think you misunderstood me, because I wrote about python-linux-ai-virtuoso. I only wrote that as an example of someone talented who is good at his field compared to others who have basic college knowledge and don't excell in any particular subject as all college students who don't learn anything above the school curriculum. I don't want to be a data scientist, and I study what I want to work with in the future and the school doesn't teach that. If I want to work for example as an embedded devloper, I will not sit down and discuss c++ with my peers :rolleyes: They will not write the code for me :rolleyes: There is nothing to think about or discuss, it has to be understood, memorized and applied :rolleyes: because time is running and the school is not teaching me anything that I would want to like to work with in the future. I do this degree just for the paper, because the employers demand it. But anyways, thank's for your advice ;)
I'm just trying to point out that being very talented in a specific sub-field of CS is economically worthless. You need to understand the limitations of a sub field, preferably for many subfields. Preconceptions or preferences for a particular one makes you worse at CS, not better. That's because the entirety of CS pivots around people who can understand the machines' limitations and the humans' desires, and a lot hinges on communication with the latter. If you start out with the misconception that:
it has to be understood, memorized and applied
I'm definitely not gonna hire you on my team. Maybe someone else will, but I'm not taking that risk. If your goal is to be valuable as a developer, reconsider your approach and focus on searching / assimilating / communicating things you don't know yet. As a reference: I did 5 years of commercial R&D and I wrote drivers for embedded hardware in 3 different projects. I also did custom work for esoteric DB stacks, IIOT and AR, just to name a few topics. Not trying to criticize, just trying to help you find your way.
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You think it sucks now, with 3 hours of classwork and 3 hours of homework a day? Well, when you're employed, it will be a minimum of eight hours a day, no matter what you do for a living. Welcome to adulthood. Childhood was nice, but now it's over. You will look back on your college days as a stressful but rather care-free period in your life. Your so-called life will take place exclusively evenings and weekends. You will learn to take care of your household chores efficiently, so you can get on with the things that interest you. You will get married, so you can split the chores, and so you have someone close by to have a life with, instead of going out looking for your friends. College is stressful, struggling to understand, keeping up with the lectures and the exam schedule. You need to know that this is a normal state for a college student. You're not an idiot--you just haven't learned yet. Embrace the suck. Work will have its deadlines too, but it's not the same degree of mental struggle. You will be far more confident once you complete your degree. Continuous reeducation is a part of computer science that will be there your whole career. If you really can't stand to keep learning forever, you need to quit now and do something simpler, like carrying bricks for a living.
SeattleC++ wrote: You think it sucks now, with 3 hours of classwork and 3 hours of homework a day? Well, when you're employed, it will be a minimum of eight hours a day, no matter what you do for a living. this is one of the reasons people who work 3 years in IT are much better than people who do the same thing at college for 3yr 8hr x 5 days > whatever the alternative is and it is less than 8hr a day
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Try taking fewer classes. Manage the load. Take a semester off and work a dirty job to catch your breath. Try to find out if you can transfer in a few credits from somewhere else. As a former CompSci student and a former CompSci prof, and a current developer, I can tell you that trying to get too much learning done too fast can ruin the experience. Take on some simpler project for a volunteer organization, or any wider view on resume building that doesn't involve grinding classes. If you get a semester off, make a list of online tutorials you want to walk thru. But if you're just getting a short break, take a break. Seriously, your schedule tightens once you win the big "prize" and have a full time job. You won't have the same chances later on.