Mostly cloudy
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That would at least make it a whole lot less bad. That would basically be complaining to coworkers, which is a little like teambuilding :laugh:
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No company is perfect (especially government) and people make mistakes. You just threw your PM under a bus and complained about him TO A CUSTOMER! In my book that's an absolute no go. If you have problems, run it by your manager, if they don't listen and you're dissatisfied, leave. You're now just actively sabotaging the company from within. We have very strict employee laws in the Netherlands and in some cases it can be almost impossible to get one fired. I think this is one of the reasons for direct dismissal though. An absolute dick move, no matter how much you disagree with the policy :thumbsdown: [Edit] JSOP's customer was internal and everyone knew about the situation, making my reply not applicable in this case. Consider JSOP's reputation cleared, at least from this incident :laugh: [/Edit]
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Sander Rossel wrote:
You just threw your PM under a bus and complained about him TO A CUSTOMER!
This is not quite accurate:
#realJSOP wrote:
A problem came up, and when the customer asked us about it, we had to tell him that he had to talk to the DBAs because the devs could no longer inspect those databases...
This could be because of a policy that developers may not access live systems, or for any number of other reasons. Going by what JSOP said here, the PM was not mentioned in the interaction with the customer. JSOP's complaint about this on CodeProject may be inadvisable (the parties involved may recognize themselves), but the situation is generic enough that it could have occurred with any cloud-based project.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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No company is perfect (especially government) and people make mistakes. You just threw your PM under a bus and complained about him TO A CUSTOMER! In my book that's an absolute no go. If you have problems, run it by your manager, if they don't listen and you're dissatisfied, leave. You're now just actively sabotaging the company from within. We have very strict employee laws in the Netherlands and in some cases it can be almost impossible to get one fired. I think this is one of the reasons for direct dismissal though. An absolute dick move, no matter how much you disagree with the policy :thumbsdown: [Edit] JSOP's customer was internal and everyone knew about the situation, making my reply not applicable in this case. Consider JSOP's reputation cleared, at least from this incident :laugh: [/Edit]
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- I tried for a month to get to get the account back. 1) My boss tried for a month to get the account back. 2) We warned the customer (sits in the next room) that support would have to come from the DBAs and told them why. 3) A problem comes up, and I reminded everyone we've been trying to get the account back for a month. 4) Everybody already knew what was going on.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Although I do agree with you on this, John is getting ready to retire here soon (I think) and I am pretty sure that he does not give an elephant about tactics and niceties anymore (always?). I could be wrong.
You are not wrong. :) Even when I was younger, my was honest to a fault. I actually got let go a couple of times because of it. Such is life, but at least i didn't sacrifice what I believed in. My principles are fully intact.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
That's really not an excuse for causing harm to the company you work for. If anything, it's a reason to keep him far away from customers.
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I work for the US government. You can't hurt the government. BTW, my boss backed me up on that email.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
- I tried for a month to get to get the account back. 1) My boss tried for a month to get the account back. 2) We warned the customer (sits in the next room) that support would have to come from the DBAs and told them why. 3) A problem comes up, and I reminded everyone we've been trying to get the account back for a month. 4) Everybody already knew what was going on.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013#realJSOP wrote:
- We warned the customer (sits in the next room)
#realJSOP wrote:
- Everybody already knew what was going on.
Those are important details you didn't mention! Complaining to customers is a sin punishable by dismissal. Complaining to coworkers is basically teambuilding :laugh: And yeah, I get that coworkers may be customers (even paying ones), but still coworkers too. Your place sounds awful to work for by the way X|
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I work for the US government. You can't hurt the government. BTW, my boss backed me up on that email.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013#realJSOP wrote:
You can't hurt the government.
In Soviet Netherlands, government hurts you: https://www.hollandtimes.nl/articles/national/childcare-allowance-drama/[^] :sigh:
#realJSOP wrote:
my boss backed me up on that email
Consider my reply moot, I was under the assumption you complained to actual external customers about internal affairs.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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#realJSOP wrote:
- We warned the customer (sits in the next room)
#realJSOP wrote:
- Everybody already knew what was going on.
Those are important details you didn't mention! Complaining to customers is a sin punishable by dismissal. Complaining to coworkers is basically teambuilding :laugh: And yeah, I get that coworkers may be customers (even paying ones), but still coworkers too. Your place sounds awful to work for by the way X|
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sander Rossel wrote:
Those are important details you didn't mention!
Well, it wasn't necessary until people started making assumptions. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
#realJSOP wrote:
- We warned the customer (sits in the next room)
#realJSOP wrote:
- Everybody already knew what was going on.
Those are important details you didn't mention! Complaining to customers is a sin punishable by dismissal. Complaining to coworkers is basically teambuilding :laugh: And yeah, I get that coworkers may be customers (even paying ones), but still coworkers too. Your place sounds awful to work for by the way X|
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sander Rossel wrote:
Your place sounds awful to work for by the way
A couple of the guys (the PM is one) are hard to work with, but the work itself is kinda fun.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Sander Rossel wrote:
Those are important details you didn't mention!
Well, it wasn't necessary until people started making assumptions. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 20139/10 times it's safe to assume "a customer" is not someone in the office next to you ;) I apologize to the 1/10.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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Sander Rossel wrote:
Your place sounds awful to work for by the way
A couple of the guys (the PM is one) are hard to work with, but the work itself is kinda fun.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I once left a 30-person company for one person. The person was part of my team and he was so toxic I didn't want to spend another day with that asshole. Another person left a few months later for the same reason. I've worked at another company like that, although it was a lot smaller with only seven people, but it was quite doable to avoid the toxic person. I can imagine your job has some cool challenges and it's probably a good place to work. Always a bummer when one or two guys ruin the atmosphere. Good luck with those guys, maybe send out a couple more frustrated emails? You have my blessing ;)
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I once left a 30-person company for one person. The person was part of my team and he was so toxic I didn't want to spend another day with that asshole. Another person left a few months later for the same reason. I've worked at another company like that, although it was a lot smaller with only seven people, but it was quite doable to avoid the toxic person. I can imagine your job has some cool challenges and it's probably a good place to work. Always a bummer when one or two guys ruin the atmosphere. Good luck with those guys, maybe send out a couple more frustrated emails? You have my blessing ;)
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
The way I see it is that I retire in 3 years, an I have no doubt I can return their fire for that long. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Well, our transition to the cloud has resulted in diminished access. Before we moved to the cloud, we could still connect to our outward facing database servers via ssms using basically read-only accounts. we could inspect tables/views and even look at stored procs, but we didn't have execute permissions. On our cloud servers, that read-only account has been removed, which everyone thought was fine. Until today. A problem came up, and when the customer asked us about it, we had to tell him that he had to talk to the DBAs because the devs could no longer inspect those databases... The word "shitstorm" is being bandied about as a description of what's been happening since i sent that email. In that email, I also happened to mention that I warned this would happen, and was told by the PM that "we'd cross that bridge when we came to it". Here we are, and the bridge is nowhere to be seen, and I am NOT stepping in that fast-moving stream of sewage that I see flowing by. "Shitstorm" indeed.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013This is why I want to be just like JSOP when I grow up.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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This is why I want to be just like JSOP when I grow up.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
I inspire greatness. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Well, our transition to the cloud has resulted in diminished access. Before we moved to the cloud, we could still connect to our outward facing database servers via ssms using basically read-only accounts. we could inspect tables/views and even look at stored procs, but we didn't have execute permissions. On our cloud servers, that read-only account has been removed, which everyone thought was fine. Until today. A problem came up, and when the customer asked us about it, we had to tell him that he had to talk to the DBAs because the devs could no longer inspect those databases... The word "shitstorm" is being bandied about as a description of what's been happening since i sent that email. In that email, I also happened to mention that I warned this would happen, and was told by the PM that "we'd cross that bridge when we came to it". Here we are, and the bridge is nowhere to be seen, and I am NOT stepping in that fast-moving stream of sewage that I see flowing by. "Shitstorm" indeed.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Conway's Law: In any organization there is one person who knows what is going on. That person must be fired.
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Absolutely but I bet he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
pkfox wrote:
I wouldn't like to be the PM - especially with you working there !!!
pkfox wrote:
Absolutely but I bet he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
what a disappointment... I didn't have you for a fool, but if you tell it so... :rolleyes: ;P :-D :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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9/10 times it's safe to assume "a customer" is not someone in the office next to you ;) I apologize to the 1/10.
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That makes me the 2/10. My customers are other departments within the company and in occasions even within my division.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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pkfox wrote:
I wouldn't like to be the PM - especially with you working there !!!
pkfox wrote:
Absolutely but I bet he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
what a disappointment... I didn't have you for a fool, but if you tell it so... :rolleyes: ;P :-D :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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That makes me the 2/10. My customers are other departments within the company and in occasions even within my division.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
2/20, you're part of the next 10 :laugh:
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I don't just ping people - when I'm done, they ring like a freakin bell... :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
