About that Agile - Plan, Build, Run thingy.
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Michael Breeden wrote:
This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers"
It's not absurd. If one of you die and everything stops because he was the only one to know how one specific things works then it is a failure on you, your manager and the company. You do not need to be 100% replaceable, but you need to have some sort of internal training to share as much knowledge as possible.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
In a group of n, the truck (lorry) number has to be >1, not n.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
Michael Breeden wrote:
This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers"
It's not absurd. If one of you die and everything stops because he was the only one to know how one specific things works then it is a failure on you, your manager and the company. You do not need to be 100% replaceable, but you need to have some sort of internal training to share as much knowledge as possible.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
That might be a management failure but some of the skills were developed in house. You can't hire them. How are you going to hire a C# AWS Lamabda specialist? Worst of all, our C++ specialist who designed the system 20 years ago... and is going away, is a real live genius. Are they supposed to hire a backup for all of us? I was supposed to transfer one of my systems to another team. It never happened because the resources simply aren't there to take on a fault tolerant WAN project I took two years to develop. So, am I supposed to teach everyone my AWS, C# skills? Not gonna happen. What I have done that management should have is I have interviewed everyone I could about the critical processes only they knew about, recorded on Zoom. No one knows that. Still, no video is not going to teach anyone my skills. I make videos just to show how to test and use my Intranet pages I make. ... I don't do simple. That is not what my team does either.
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The history of economies is one of specialization. In a shop that has its fingers in as many pies as yours, thinking that the developers should all be interchangeable reveals a shocking level of ignorance.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Agreed!!! Very frustrating also. I have pointed out that it is a lie like the other misinformation that curses our society, and quite dangerous. They simply ignore it and since they seem to believe in (Agile) process over people, I'm a bad guy for objecting. I'm not always popular in Agile Training sessions. I am the last developer standing though. The C++ guy is retiring because of the absurdity of this. I could go on about the intellectual crime this is , but ... What I want to know, is where did that Interchangeability of skills idea come from? Then maybe I can answer it.
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Agreed!!! Very frustrating also. I have pointed out that it is a lie like the other misinformation that curses our society, and quite dangerous. They simply ignore it and since they seem to believe in (Agile) process over people, I'm a bad guy for objecting. I'm not always popular in Agile Training sessions. I am the last developer standing though. The C++ guy is retiring because of the absurdity of this. I could go on about the intellectual crime this is , but ... What I want to know, is where did that Interchangeability of skills idea come from? Then maybe I can answer it.
I'm no Agile expert but am unaware that Agile mandates this. It can happen wherever managers have little knowledge of software development and think that developers are like assembly line workers. If one guy is leaving because of this, the reason for his departure should be conveyed to management. If they're not willing to listen, maybe you should start thinking about your next job.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
This interchangeability is supposed to be a feature of Plan, Build, Run or maybe Agile. It's not coming from HR. The company has only been able to hire one contractor with the C# and AWS skills I've worked to develop. Ain't gonna be no cross training to a SQL specialist or RPG person.
You may wish to explain to them that the knowledge transfer they want, or as you may consider it, interchangeability, can be explained to them thusly: Next time you need your teeth cleaned or a cavity filled, just go a the proctologist. A doctor's a doctor, after all. You can add to it that you mean that both literally and figuratively.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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You may wish to explain to them that the knowledge transfer they want, or as you may consider it, interchangeability, can be explained to them thusly: Next time you need your teeth cleaned or a cavity filled, just go a the proctologist. A doctor's a doctor, after all. You can add to it that you mean that both literally and figuratively.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Quote:
Next time you need your teeth cleaned or a cavity filled, just go a the proctologist. A doctor's a doctor, after all.
Or the reverse. Need your backside checked. The Dentist can do it. The drill will work wonders on your firmament. Thanks. I loved your quote by the way
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Quote:
Next time you need your teeth cleaned or a cavity filled, just go a the proctologist. A doctor's a doctor, after all.
Or the reverse. Need your backside checked. The Dentist can do it. The drill will work wonders on your firmament. Thanks. I loved your quote by the way
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
As a (possibly) self promoting note, the Ravings en masse[^] (just above the quotes on the page) has a lot of quotes - the ones on the right side are mine. Also, one on the left (guess which one?). I don't expect anyone to like them all . . .not even me.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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OK, my company decided that we are Agile. Fine, I've been in agile shops before and it worked but this has a few oddities. OK, many oddities. My C# niche has always been leading edge technologies. I tend to write BIG C# AJAX base Intranet or data processing Windows Services. I could go on about the reasons my development fits the agile model poorly but I end up with two questions. In a large company (> 3000 developers), my previous (Db master) manager created a very small (< 10), very highly skilled team that provided a service to the to the rest of the company. (We never had layoffs, our team was too lean.) With the re-org, we lost critical skills and knowledge including our C++ guy, our Db cultural knowledge and LF who is a as red as I am blue, but I love her for her mad skills... that I can't describe but rely on. The team is no more than 8 people now. I'm a C# expert writing YAML and PowerShell scripts for AWS. Our Db guy does his thing and helps me. We have RPG specialists because we also consume data from iSeries machines. We are told that we all interchangeable and all should be able to do any of the tasks in the backlog as they come up in priority (or write user stories). This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers". (Seriously? No one can even test my software without my technical help.) Knowledge transfer? I've spent years upping my C# skills from MS ecology to .Net Core, Open Source, git, AWS, etc. If needed though, I'm supposed to be able to do a Knowledge Transfer to any other team member so they can work on my ... their project. Same thing with them doing a Knowledge Transfer to get me up to speed with RPG, iSeries or the crazy SQL that T writes. So where did that idea of identical skills on the team come from? It seems like on surgery day, the anesthesiologist, vascular surgeon and the neurologist decide what role they want to do... maybe pull in a nurse to do the skull opening.
The salient point about Agile is that, with great agility, management can declare their company to be Agile, without any clue. Not that anyone actually has a clue as to what Agile means in terms of skill sets and practice. Thank goodness neurosurgeons can't willy-nilly declare themselves to be brain surgeons.
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That might be a management failure but some of the skills were developed in house. You can't hire them. How are you going to hire a C# AWS Lamabda specialist? Worst of all, our C++ specialist who designed the system 20 years ago... and is going away, is a real live genius. Are they supposed to hire a backup for all of us? I was supposed to transfer one of my systems to another team. It never happened because the resources simply aren't there to take on a fault tolerant WAN project I took two years to develop. So, am I supposed to teach everyone my AWS, C# skills? Not gonna happen. What I have done that management should have is I have interviewed everyone I could about the critical processes only they knew about, recorded on Zoom. No one knows that. Still, no video is not going to teach anyone my skills. I make videos just to show how to test and use my Intranet pages I make. ... I don't do simple. That is not what my team does either.
Michael Breeden wrote:
So, am I supposed to teach everyone my AWS, C# skills? Not gonna happen.
Maybe not everyone, but surely you want at least one other person to be able to step in if you're not available. Or do you not take vacations, have a daughter who's graduating, a son that's getting married or parents celebrating their 40th wedding anniversary? If so, what's the plan when Something Bad happens within your bailiwick? Do you have to leave off your family/personal time and deal with it? What's the plan when your C++ guy goes away, who can fill in for him? It doesn't sound like you'll be able to hire in to replace him. All that specialized knowledge is going with him. If you were management, what would your plan be to be able to continue to provide service to your customers when he leaves? Maybe rather than the proctologist/dentist example given elswhere, consider that both a cardiologist and a brain surgeon would be able to assist in a mass casualty situation. And both are continuously training the next generation, and you should be, too.
Keep Calm and Carry On
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The salient point about Agile is that, with great agility, management can declare their company to be Agile, without any clue. Not that anyone actually has a clue as to what Agile means in terms of skill sets and practice. Thank goodness neurosurgeons can't willy-nilly declare themselves to be brain surgeons.
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Michael Breeden wrote:
So, am I supposed to teach everyone my AWS, C# skills? Not gonna happen.
Maybe not everyone, but surely you want at least one other person to be able to step in if you're not available. Or do you not take vacations, have a daughter who's graduating, a son that's getting married or parents celebrating their 40th wedding anniversary? If so, what's the plan when Something Bad happens within your bailiwick? Do you have to leave off your family/personal time and deal with it? What's the plan when your C++ guy goes away, who can fill in for him? It doesn't sound like you'll be able to hire in to replace him. All that specialized knowledge is going with him. If you were management, what would your plan be to be able to continue to provide service to your customers when he leaves? Maybe rather than the proctologist/dentist example given elswhere, consider that both a cardiologist and a brain surgeon would be able to assist in a mass casualty situation. And both are continuously training the next generation, and you should be, too.
Keep Calm and Carry On
Nope, no backups and it's unlikely that you can hire that kind of .Net AWS expertise. Our CloudFormation requirements are nutso partly from lack of Cloud support personnel and residual panic from a ransomware incident. I took two days of PTO (Pretend Time off) for my son's graduation and still did a 60 hour week. My motto is "no rest for the wicked" but I'm leaning towards "work till you drop" as it is the only way I can see to solve my professional and personal problems. ... I exercise during Zoom meetings as it is the only time I have for it. As for the C++, I made videos of what I could. No one really knows about them though and I'm not sure I'm telling. Also... he was a genius. A dangerous thing to rely on in an IT group.
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The salient point about Agile is that, with great agility, management can declare their company to be Agile, without any clue. Not that anyone actually has a clue as to what Agile means in terms of skill sets and practice. Thank goodness neurosurgeons can't willy-nilly declare themselves to be brain surgeons.
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Client-Side Type-Based Publisher/Subscriber, Exploring Synchronous, "Event-ed", and Worker Thread SubscriptionsYes, my company is apparently agile. Or so they tell our customers. Luckily this isn't very noticable for us developers.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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OK, my company decided that we are Agile. Fine, I've been in agile shops before and it worked but this has a few oddities. OK, many oddities. My C# niche has always been leading edge technologies. I tend to write BIG C# AJAX base Intranet or data processing Windows Services. I could go on about the reasons my development fits the agile model poorly but I end up with two questions. In a large company (> 3000 developers), my previous (Db master) manager created a very small (< 10), very highly skilled team that provided a service to the to the rest of the company. (We never had layoffs, our team was too lean.) With the re-org, we lost critical skills and knowledge including our C++ guy, our Db cultural knowledge and LF who is a as red as I am blue, but I love her for her mad skills... that I can't describe but rely on. The team is no more than 8 people now. I'm a C# expert writing YAML and PowerShell scripts for AWS. Our Db guy does his thing and helps me. We have RPG specialists because we also consume data from iSeries machines. We are told that we all interchangeable and all should be able to do any of the tasks in the backlog as they come up in priority (or write user stories). This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers". (Seriously? No one can even test my software without my technical help.) Knowledge transfer? I've spent years upping my C# skills from MS ecology to .Net Core, Open Source, git, AWS, etc. If needed though, I'm supposed to be able to do a Knowledge Transfer to any other team member so they can work on my ... their project. Same thing with them doing a Knowledge Transfer to get me up to speed with RPG, iSeries or the crazy SQL that T writes. So where did that idea of identical skills on the team come from? It seems like on surgery day, the anesthesiologist, vascular surgeon and the neurologist decide what role they want to do... maybe pull in a nurse to do the skull opening.
To any organisation and 3000 devs is a lot, having and indispensable person is a risk, having a small team is a larger risk. You really can't blame them for trying to mitigate the risk. While you are doing all that cross training you will of course be expected to produce at the same pace or faster.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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To any organisation and 3000 devs is a lot, having and indispensable person is a risk, having a small team is a larger risk. You really can't blame them for trying to mitigate the risk. While you are doing all that cross training you will of course be expected to produce at the same pace or faster.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
They aren't mitigating the risk at all. The rest of the remaining team members don't even know C# or C++ so I don't see how cross-training is feasible. I'm the last developer resource for 3.5+ important projects and while I've been working for a long time for cloud expertise, there is a lot of it and they do not see that as requiring time to develop. They have lost one totally indispensable person at least, perhaps 2. Again, I am most interested in where they got the idea that all members of an Agile team had interchangeable skills. Then maybe I can figure out the context of this. It was not HR. Any idea?
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They aren't mitigating the risk at all. The rest of the remaining team members don't even know C# or C++ so I don't see how cross-training is feasible. I'm the last developer resource for 3.5+ important projects and while I've been working for a long time for cloud expertise, there is a lot of it and they do not see that as requiring time to develop. They have lost one totally indispensable person at least, perhaps 2. Again, I am most interested in where they got the idea that all members of an Agile team had interchangeable skills. Then maybe I can figure out the context of this. It was not HR. Any idea?
I would assume you have a risk management team or even person and they should certainly have identified the glaring operational risk you represent.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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I would assume you have a risk management team or even person and they should certainly have identified the glaring operational risk you represent.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
No. We've had a great deal of management churn and their main focus is digital transformation. They are still panicked from the ransomware attack. It was recognized long ago by my manager that I owned too much, but the C++ guy could have gotten a new C# person up to speed. He's on Run now and soon gone cuz he hates the way things are going. When it was proposed, I told them not to use AWS Lambdas for huge projects. There is little advantage and takes great expertise to maintain. Expertise that is rare and that I am still working to develop. Lambda is supposed to be small functions for micro services. The Lambda project I wrangle now is over 135 .cs files. Hey, it will be OK. We have lots of new VPs. I was known for risky behavior as a skier, big wave eater, and lobster hunter. These folks would really impress me if it was a calculated risk. Too many lies and illusions. I do push back. Lies have never worked as a strategy for me.
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Michael Breeden wrote:
This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers"
It's not absurd. If one of you die and everything stops because he was the only one to know how one specific things works then it is a failure on you, your manager and the company. You do not need to be 100% replaceable, but you need to have some sort of internal training to share as much knowledge as possible.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
From a rational and logical point I agree completely. But we're talking Management here... This pre-supposes that the company are prepared to invest time, money and resources into 'cross-training'. What if they aren't? What if they are so out of touch with the jobs you are doing that they literally don't understand it or what it entails and aren't interested in finding out? Because then they might have to pay you more... I have to put up with this management-wish-fulfilment crap on a daily basis. "Just teach so-and-so how to do it (wave of hand) - how do I teach so-and-so when they have no knowledge of the subject whatsoever, no interest in learning it and no time from their own work? Will be interested to see what happens when I retire next year.... ;P
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OK, my company decided that we are Agile. Fine, I've been in agile shops before and it worked but this has a few oddities. OK, many oddities. My C# niche has always been leading edge technologies. I tend to write BIG C# AJAX base Intranet or data processing Windows Services. I could go on about the reasons my development fits the agile model poorly but I end up with two questions. In a large company (> 3000 developers), my previous (Db master) manager created a very small (< 10), very highly skilled team that provided a service to the to the rest of the company. (We never had layoffs, our team was too lean.) With the re-org, we lost critical skills and knowledge including our C++ guy, our Db cultural knowledge and LF who is a as red as I am blue, but I love her for her mad skills... that I can't describe but rely on. The team is no more than 8 people now. I'm a C# expert writing YAML and PowerShell scripts for AWS. Our Db guy does his thing and helps me. We have RPG specialists because we also consume data from iSeries machines. We are told that we all interchangeable and all should be able to do any of the tasks in the backlog as they come up in priority (or write user stories). This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers". (Seriously? No one can even test my software without my technical help.) Knowledge transfer? I've spent years upping my C# skills from MS ecology to .Net Core, Open Source, git, AWS, etc. If needed though, I'm supposed to be able to do a Knowledge Transfer to any other team member so they can work on my ... their project. Same thing with them doing a Knowledge Transfer to get me up to speed with RPG, iSeries or the crazy SQL that T writes. So where did that idea of identical skills on the team come from? It seems like on surgery day, the anesthesiologist, vascular surgeon and the neurologist decide what role they want to do... maybe pull in a nurse to do the skull opening.
The idea of team members being able to do your job isn't far-fetched. When you go on vacation or resign, your work should continue. The idea, however, is that people with the same skill sets are interchangeable, not people with different skill sets. Just tell your manager you'll do his job today and he can do yours. When he tells you that's ridiculous just tell him the difference between your two jobs are about as big as between you and the RPG guy. Although I think you and the SQL guy, at least, should have some overlap (not necessarily vice versa, most programmers know some SQL, but DBA's often aren't programmers).
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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The idea of team members being able to do your job isn't far-fetched. When you go on vacation or resign, your work should continue. The idea, however, is that people with the same skill sets are interchangeable, not people with different skill sets. Just tell your manager you'll do his job today and he can do yours. When he tells you that's ridiculous just tell him the difference between your two jobs are about as big as between you and the RPG guy. Although I think you and the SQL guy, at least, should have some overlap (not necessarily vice versa, most programmers know some SQL, but DBA's often aren't programmers).
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
This is great! I'm fairly well trained in Agile and I could find my way around JIRA. Let them find their way around my work. Thanks for a great tactical suggestion... I am working my way up the chain today though, asking where they got that interchangeability idea. At 2 is the meeting with the top Agile person and I'll ask her. As for me resigning, they broke up the band already. Two of the critical people are now on the Run team and both want to quit. I'm the only developer left on the Build team... as we do the digital transformation dance to AWS ... Lambda. You tell me how that's going to happen. I told them when they proposed it that it was an unmaintainable system. AWS says not to try to convert big applications to Lambda. Even our Cloud top executive said a Lambda shouldn't be over 70 lines long. Ours includes over 135 .cs files. I'm stressed out enough that I can't sleep.
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OK, my company decided that we are Agile. Fine, I've been in agile shops before and it worked but this has a few oddities. OK, many oddities. My C# niche has always been leading edge technologies. I tend to write BIG C# AJAX base Intranet or data processing Windows Services. I could go on about the reasons my development fits the agile model poorly but I end up with two questions. In a large company (> 3000 developers), my previous (Db master) manager created a very small (< 10), very highly skilled team that provided a service to the to the rest of the company. (We never had layoffs, our team was too lean.) With the re-org, we lost critical skills and knowledge including our C++ guy, our Db cultural knowledge and LF who is a as red as I am blue, but I love her for her mad skills... that I can't describe but rely on. The team is no more than 8 people now. I'm a C# expert writing YAML and PowerShell scripts for AWS. Our Db guy does his thing and helps me. We have RPG specialists because we also consume data from iSeries machines. We are told that we all interchangeable and all should be able to do any of the tasks in the backlog as they come up in priority (or write user stories). This interchangeability of skills seems absurd but is "easily" fixed by "Knowledge Transfers". (Seriously? No one can even test my software without my technical help.) Knowledge transfer? I've spent years upping my C# skills from MS ecology to .Net Core, Open Source, git, AWS, etc. If needed though, I'm supposed to be able to do a Knowledge Transfer to any other team member so they can work on my ... their project. Same thing with them doing a Knowledge Transfer to get me up to speed with RPG, iSeries or the crazy SQL that T writes. So where did that idea of identical skills on the team come from? It seems like on surgery day, the anesthesiologist, vascular surgeon and the neurologist decide what role they want to do... maybe pull in a nurse to do the skull opening.
