Problem solving 101
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theoldfool wrote:
Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority.
No organization I have ever met does that! They have all made assigning blame the highest priority. The guilty will be high enough up the food chain to appoint a scapegoat. Depending on the location, credit card providers have a legal requirement to send you your credit card statement at least 21 days before your payment due date - even if the balance is zero. (That's certainly the case in the UK, I believe also in the EU, and probably in the US. Even if they don't in a specific country, they are likely to follow the same rules globally because they use the same systems everywhere!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
credit card providers have a legal requirement to send you your credit card statement at least 21 days before your payment due date - even if the balance is zero.
I have a number of cards that do not do this. Once the outstanding balance is zero and there are no new transactions, then they don't send a monthly statement. And the statements are all paperless so I don't even get an email.
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theoldfool wrote:
Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority.
No organization I have ever met does that! They have all made assigning blame the highest priority. The guilty will be high enough up the food chain to appoint a scapegoat. Depending on the location, credit card providers have a legal requirement to send you your credit card statement at least 21 days before your payment due date - even if the balance is zero. (That's certainly the case in the UK, I believe also in the EU, and probably in the US. Even if they don't in a specific country, they are likely to follow the same rules globally because they use the same systems everywhere!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
My experience has been establishment. If the PTB don't like the result, then they RE-assign the blame. No good deed goes unpunished. Thanks for the info, hadn't considered it was big brother protecting me from unstated $0.00 bills. Good job. I wonder what the reaction would be if I put a check for that amount in their deposit box? Guess I will just move on and shred the statements. Thanks again.
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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My experience has been establishment. If the PTB don't like the result, then they RE-assign the blame. No good deed goes unpunished. Thanks for the info, hadn't considered it was big brother protecting me from unstated $0.00 bills. Good job. I wonder what the reaction would be if I put a check for that amount in their deposit box? Guess I will just move on and shred the statements. Thanks again.
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
theoldfool wrote:
I wonder what the reaction would be if I put a check for that amount in their deposit box?
You would get a statement with one line - a credit for 0.00. :doh:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
theoldfool wrote:
I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number
Agreed, that's annoying.
theoldfool wrote:
who is to blame?
I would say you're to blame, for not having switched to electronic billing. :) I haven't received a paper bill, statement or corporate voting form by physical mail since 2003. I have two decades of financial data that's backed up (in multiple generations) and easily searchable. I urge you to switch to receiving PDF statements. I'm certain you won't miss paper statements! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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theoldfool wrote:
I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number
Agreed, that's annoying.
theoldfool wrote:
who is to blame?
I would say you're to blame, for not having switched to electronic billing. :) I haven't received a paper bill, statement or corporate voting form by physical mail since 2003. I have two decades of financial data that's backed up (in multiple generations) and easily searchable. I urge you to switch to receiving PDF statements. I'm certain you won't miss paper statements! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Surely, you jest:
Quote:
herself is not into e thingies
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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theoldfool wrote:
Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority.
No organization I have ever met does that! They have all made assigning blame the highest priority. The guilty will be high enough up the food chain to appoint a scapegoat. Depending on the location, credit card providers have a legal requirement to send you your credit card statement at least 21 days before your payment due date - even if the balance is zero. (That's certainly the case in the UK, I believe also in the EU, and probably in the US. Even if they don't in a specific country, they are likely to follow the same rules globally because they use the same systems everywhere!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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Surely, you jest:
Quote:
herself is not into e thingies
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
Perhaps you can assist and show her how easy (and more convenient) it is? I admit it's a behavior change, but well worth it. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
If you don't receive a statement, this may be: no purchases or statement is lost. As programmer, I prefer to receive zero statement. In practice, I get such information by email. P.S. And of course, I think twice before printing such mail. Though, as programmer, I don't understand, how my "thinking twice" helps to Amazon rainforest.
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
theoldfool wrote:
I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number
Do you have a shredder?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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theoldfool wrote:
I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number
Do you have a shredder?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
I do. Therefore, I shred. And shred. And shred. Happily. :)
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
Enough is enough. Thank you all for these wonderful, advices. As I stated in the constraints of the problem, estatements are not an option. I assume that you are not married or are married (or otherwise coexisting) to a geek type person who is in favor of e thingies. After spending over 60 years with herself, I have learned to just click on "yes dear". :) Emailing the $0.00 statement would save paper but would still require a form of shredding on my part. I had no idea you were all so willing to help with what I thought was a tongue in cheek post. Happy estuff to all. :sigh:
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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Enough is enough. Thank you all for these wonderful, advices. As I stated in the constraints of the problem, estatements are not an option. I assume that you are not married or are married (or otherwise coexisting) to a geek type person who is in favor of e thingies. After spending over 60 years with herself, I have learned to just click on "yes dear". :) Emailing the $0.00 statement would save paper but would still require a form of shredding on my part. I had no idea you were all so willing to help with what I thought was a tongue in cheek post. Happy estuff to all. :sigh:
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
I am there with you. I don't even think about arguing anymore. Even if I win the argument, she just changes the subject. :sigh: My reply is "whatever you want!"
"She do run,run, she do run" - some obscure 50's girl group.
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I do. Therefore, I shred. And shred. And shred. Happily. :)
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
I also have a an ink roller stamp that I can use on address labels on cardboard that I put in the recycle bin. The roller imprints a pattern over the address making it very difficult to read the text.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Enough is enough. Thank you all for these wonderful, advices. As I stated in the constraints of the problem, estatements are not an option. I assume that you are not married or are married (or otherwise coexisting) to a geek type person who is in favor of e thingies. After spending over 60 years with herself, I have learned to just click on "yes dear". :) Emailing the $0.00 statement would save paper but would still require a form of shredding on my part. I had no idea you were all so willing to help with what I thought was a tongue in cheek post. Happy estuff to all. :sigh:
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
I think you've hit on an important constraint that is almost never considered by the companies that offer estatements. Namely, why allow only one email address to receive the statement? If the companies that want me to convert to estatements would let me specify more than one email address to send the statement to, I would gladly use the option. As is, with just one email address, I will have to keep receiving the paper bill. Yes, I've been in paper mills, but I'm not concious stricken about using paper. Note to application architects, developers etc.: always allow for more than one email address for this type of application (billing, statements, etc.). Also, big pet peeve: let me specify a PO Box on address line 2. If you really need my physical address, I'll put it on address line 1. My local Post Office does not, for some reason, deliver to my physical address, so I get my mail at the Post Office (in fact, I use a gasoline powered car to go there). Not being able to plainly specify my PO Box on address line 2 leads to all sorts of artifice to trick the application into specifying something the Post Office will recognize as my PO Box number.
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
Paper mills don't smell nearly as bad as they used to! Mechanical digesters and all that. The de-inking process for recycled paper is another matter. Of course, no one reads newspapers anymore, so that problem is going away. Stick an empty Amazon box on your head and inhale deeply. That's about what a paper mill smells like now.
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
Could not require a solution at all. It could be regulatory that the document has to be sent.
Regards, Thomas Stockwell
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OK, so I have this problem caused by a credit card issuer. Like most organizations, I have made establishing blame the highest priority. We must do that before finding any potential solution(s). Problem: I have a very seldom used credit card. Almost every month, the bank sends me a statement for $0.00. It even lists all my purchases for that month (a grid with no rows other than the heading). The fact they are spending money paying for printing and mailing is not my concern so much as the fact that I have to dispose of the paper statement containing my account number. So, who is to blame? The developers who ignored the account balance of zero and printed it anyway? Or the PTB that fear retribution if they don't tell the account holder that they owe nothing? They never asked me if I wanted such a statement. The requirements/specifications statement? Don't be silly, who ever heard of such a thing? Now, before you tell me that e statements don't cost anything, herself is not into e thingies and understands that we are not really killing trees because crazy wood trees that are raised for making paper are a crop. When I check out, she will need paper so I keep it going. BTW: If you have never been in a paper mill (I have, many times), they smell really, really bad and pollute stuff, thus a staunch contributor to our every day society. Maybe an argument I should use to get them to stop sending me zero dollar statements. Zero dollars converts to zero euro's and zero quid for you right ponders. -- Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
You are getting mail with no charges because the process was automated years ago using the most simple solution. So, by now, nobody at the credit company is thinking about it. If you complain to them about it, it may get solved, but then probably just for you and they will think you are the problem at that point... since... it costs them money to process complaints for things and if it's an issue that doesn't concern them they get irrationally angry. Besides, coming up with secure means of destroying paper can be fun. One way I can recommend in cities because it drives the homeless gold diggers crazy is you shred them with any old paper shredder. Then when it's time to empty the container you put your hands down the middle, separate into left and right then take out the right side and dispose of it. Then mix the remaining shredded paper and leave it in there until the thing is full again and repeat the process. This means that reconstructing your document will overwhelm most crooks patience.
