The Agile Cult
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Agile smagile. I'm enjoying myself much more now that I'm a team of one and can just code.
Real programmers use butterflies
Team-of-one is the best.
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Yes they can be done, but often they are not. Agile kind of forces people to do them.
Nick Polyak
"Agile" doesn't force anything.
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Our team went through the same pain years ago, when consultants in the US tricked convinced management to go this route. So we followed the rules until the deadlines got too near, when we were told to revert to our normal mode of working, and get the job done.
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Member 14840496 wrote:
it means that one is not doing pure Agile.
No. There are lots of flavors of Agile. Regardless, take what is good and works for you from Agile and go with it.
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This article sort of confirmed my assertion. The article seems more like a psychology brief.https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/smiley_biggrin.gif Agile Ready Leaders Get Their Start in Kindergarten Published on December 23, 2016
I searched for that article and found it[^]. It is interesting that the article goes all the way down to the basics of:
Quote:
Consider the four basic tenets of leading in an agile environment (introduced in our first blog). Software engineer Kent Beck designated three of these as Be Honest, Be Kind, and Work in Small Increments. Jay added the fourth: Be Responsible.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
o we followed the rules until the deadlines got too near, when we were told to revert to our normal mode of working, and get the job done.
That's funny. You were less agile with Agile, but more agile without it. :rolleyes:
That's what I told my management when we were told we had to start doing (sorry) Agile. Me: "We're already Agile, have been since the beginning of the project." He: "Oh, but we'll use Scrum." Me: "We looked at Scrum, and adopted a few of their ideas, but our project isn't suited to Scrum. Scrum would slow us down."
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I searched for that article and found it[^]. It is interesting that the article goes all the way down to the basics of:
Quote:
Consider the four basic tenets of leading in an agile environment (introduced in our first blog). Software engineer Kent Beck designated three of these as Be Honest, Be Kind, and Work in Small Increments. Jay added the fourth: Be Responsible.
Yes, I read it. But I guess at some point we all need to grow up out of kindergarten and not have to explain to adults what they should have learned growing up. That we need other adults to show us how we (as adults) should inherently act and work by default. I agree with most of the Agile goals. My point is that it should be part of a personal practice that does not require herding people (like cats), spend excess hours and money to accomplish what responsible people should be doing, and if you do, then maybe those individuals are in the wrong career field.
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The group I was in was doing Agile already, but without the kindergarten classes. But since pair programming IS part of Agile, not practicing it means that one is not doing pure Agile.
Member 14840496 wrote:
But since pair programming IS part of Agile
Eh? I've been working in an agile environment for 5 years now and we hardly do any pair programming. In fact I have never pair programmed during that time.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Yes, I read it. But I guess at some point we all need to grow up out of kindergarten and not have to explain to adults what they should have learned growing up. That we need other adults to show us how we (as adults) should inherently act and work by default. I agree with most of the Agile goals. My point is that it should be part of a personal practice that does not require herding people (like cats), spend excess hours and money to accomplish what responsible people should be doing, and if you do, then maybe those individuals are in the wrong career field.
Member 14840496 wrote:
But I guess at some point we all need to grow up out of kindergarten and not have to explain to adults what they should have learned growing up.
That's exactly what I thought I as read it. On the Agile thing...I really do like the 12 Agile Principles[^]. They are great guidance. And that's it. Just really good guidance -- not strict rules or specific methodology, just really nice guidance. But, THE IT INDUSTRY & PUBLISHING INDUSTRY couldn't sell that for $50 - $3,000 a pop so they had to stretch it out. :rolleyes:
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Member 14840496 wrote:
But since pair programming IS part of Agile
Eh? I've been working in an agile environment for 5 years now and we hardly do any pair programming. In fact I have never pair programmed during that time.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Lucky you. https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/smiley\_smile.gif So I guess if management says you WILL do pair programming, you will refuse. Pair programming is part of the Agile manifesto. We even had a seminar on how great it is. Nothing helps you concentrate more than some person breathing down your neck all day, or, you breathing down theirs. The fact that some companies/leaders/managers do not force it - great for them. Now get rid of the rest of the nonsense so we can get something done.
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Lucky you. https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/smiley\_smile.gif So I guess if management says you WILL do pair programming, you will refuse. Pair programming is part of the Agile manifesto. We even had a seminar on how great it is. Nothing helps you concentrate more than some person breathing down your neck all day, or, you breathing down theirs. The fact that some companies/leaders/managers do not force it - great for them. Now get rid of the rest of the nonsense so we can get something done.
Member 14840496 wrote:
Pair programming is part of the Agile manifesto.
That statement is patently untrue. Any qualified Agile guru will tell you so.
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Member 14840496 wrote:
Pair programming is part of the Agile manifesto.
That statement is patently untrue. Any qualified Agile guru will tell you so.
Sorry for the choice of words. This will fit better... Since pair programming is a practice of XP it's had a lot of influence in the agile community. As a result it's often mentioned as an agile practice - meaning a practice that's commonly used by people on agile projects. But that's an observation not a prescription. Emphasis on "commonly used" here. Never heard of this nonsense until Agile came out. So change manifesto to connected with.
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The group I was in was doing Agile already, but without the kindergarten classes. But since pair programming IS part of Agile, not practicing it means that one is not doing pure Agile.
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Member 14840496 wrote:
But I guess at some point we all need to grow up out of kindergarten and not have to explain to adults what they should have learned growing up.
That's exactly what I thought I as read it. On the Agile thing...I really do like the 12 Agile Principles[^]. They are great guidance. And that's it. Just really good guidance -- not strict rules or specific methodology, just really nice guidance. But, THE IT INDUSTRY & PUBLISHING INDUSTRY couldn't sell that for $50 - $3,000 a pop so they had to stretch it out. :rolleyes:
Assuming that it was written by someone considered an agile guru, here's my reaction to the 12 Agile Principles. 1. Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software. Only if this doesn't compromise quality. Maybe valuable implies that. 2. Welcome changing requirements, even late in development. Agile processes harness change for the customer's competitive advantage. Be careful not to get whipsawed, which will give no one a competitive advantage. 3. Deliver working software frequently, from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, with a preference to the shorter timescale. This depends on the maturity of the system and how the new software will be deployed. If it's for acceptance testing or proof of concept, fine. If it's for end users in a large organization, it's asking for trouble. 4. Business people and developers must work together daily throughout the project. Nonsense. Developers need uninterrupted stretches of time to focus on, duh, development. This makes it sound like they can be frequently interrupted with constantly changing requirements, requests for progress reports, or other things that should be handled periodically, not daily. 5. Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done. Wonderful. 6. The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation. It depends on the type of information. Written communication is often more effective because it records information and can be updated. Face-to-face is good for things that can be handled one-on-one or in very small groups--otherwise it implies calling a meeting, which can really slow things down. 7. Working software is the primary measure of progress. As long as you don't take this to mean that building a prototype puts you on a direct path to having a product. 8. Agile processes promote sustainable development. The sponsors, developers, and users should be able to maintain a constant pace indefinitely. Meaningless in the absence of specific recommendations. 9. Continuous attention to technical excellence and good design enhances agility. No process is more important than these, and no process can compensate for their absence. 10. Simplicity--the art of maximizing the amount of work not done--is ess
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Huge difference between being a good Agile instructor and being a good dev manager. The former requires good speaking skills and good knowledge of the material. The latter requires good listening skills, a great BS filter and the ability to herd cats.
Even more important for being a good dev manager is the ability to shield the team from external nonsense.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
Member 14840496 wrote:
Pair programming is part of the Agile manifesto.
That statement is patently untrue. Any qualified Agile guru will tell you so.
I agree. As I recall, pair programming came from Extreme Programming pre-dating "agile". Agile brings some *limited* sanity to the dev process, but it's mostly from the Xp book. Some consultants got a hold of it and made much $$.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Agile smagile. I'm enjoying myself much more now that I'm a team of one and can just code.
Real programmers use butterflies
you are weird. you will never approach a customer. Thou must be cloked. Just kidding. :)
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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you are weird. you will never approach a customer. Thou must be cloked. Just kidding. :)
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
You're not entirely wrong. I am weird. But I eat customers which involves approaching them, especially when they're unsuspecting.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I agree. As I recall, pair programming came from Extreme Programming pre-dating "agile". Agile brings some *limited* sanity to the dev process, but it's mostly from the Xp book. Some consultants got a hold of it and made much $$.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I thought xtreme programming had something to do with drinking dangerous amounts of mountain dew and never getting laid.
Real programmers use butterflies
