Is it just me...
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I agree with you - the precision was a lot better. I also found it therapeutic to clean the mouse - if I was stuck thinking on a problem it was a great way to work on it in the background while cleaning.
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
My problem with modern mice isn't ball vs laser, but cordless vs wired. I keep getting told I had just a bad one and I should try again, but *every* cordless mouse I ever tried had this problem where, because they're so aggressively trying to conserve battery power, they're constantly trying to go to sleep, so if I'm in the middle of trying to do some precision selection, it'll go to sleep mode and I have to give it a jerk to wake it up...but in doing that, the pointer is now at the other end of the screen. Wired FTW. The same with network connections. I despise Wi-Fi.
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I used an old rollerball mouse a few weeks ago when my optical gave out. While the optical had no issues panning across 3 monitors, the rollerball required effectively "multiple mouse pads". No matter what I tried (acceleration, etc.), it seemed to think my desktops were only 15 inches when they were at least 27.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
Your memory is bad. Or rather, you're mixing up two things here, namely the quality of the sensor (which, for ball mice, is shit) and the tooling around it. Optical mice are precise, ball mice aren't. Even without lint getting in the rollers (have fun pretending to prevent that), the mechanics ain't precise in the slightest. But that's what not what you're talking about. You're talking about settings kicking in after reading the sensor, before the results get translated to cursor movements. It seems, you're fond of mouse acceleration. I don't judge here, not everyone of us has to be a gamer. However, there's absolutely nothing preventing you from enabling mouse acceleration with a modern mouse. It's not the mouse that does this, it's the software! Windows got a mouse acceleration setting (albeit labeled somewhat awkwardly) right in the mouse control panel. So enable acceleration there and enjoy what you're used to with a modern mouse.
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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most gaming mouse have custom DPI settings. and also, windows has build-in "mouse acceleration" but not a fan of it, because it doesn't help the desktop experience much, but ruins gaming experience...
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For graphic editing (Photoshop etc) I use a gaming mouse where I can, at the tap of a button, make it's movements very sluggish for those fiddly bits. Likewise when I need to drag mouse from screen 5 to screen 1, it is nice to have the mouse pointer travel at light speed.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I somehow prefer the worst of both worlds, trackballs, they have a ball that gets dirty and are laser tracked :cool:
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I don't know if perhaps you just haven't used a _really good_ modern mouse. There are plenty of cheap ones out there. You mention buying Logitech throughout the years, so I'd imagine good mice - tho even Logitech can make some cheaper ones. For example, even my M720 isn't "amazing" - it's just convenient because it can pair with 3 things and can do dongle or BT. But if I compare that with my SteelSeries Aerox - all the things you're talking about missing, with precision and so on - it's all there, but no cord to get in the way. Admittedly, because it's designed to be an uber-light mouse, the battery isn't huge, so I have to charge at least once a week (gaming at max dpi & max refresh (1000Hz) smashed the battery), but it is only 66g - if a bigger battery brought that up to even 120g, that would be lighter than a ball mouse and (imo) way better. I'd also traditionally been a Logitech guy - MX1000 (x2), MX1100, ergo trackball (wanted to try it out), M720 - but I haven't ever bought a gaming mouse from them, so perhaps their gaming line is equally good. I've definitely heard good things about them.
------------------------------------------------ If you say that getting the money is the most important thing You will spend your life completely wasting your time You will be doing things you don't like doing In order to go on living That is, to go on doing things you don't like doing Which is stupid. - Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXTZM\_uPMY
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I am not much of a gamer. I still use Logitech, but my current M510 has speed and acceleration settings built in (although not DPI settings), and it isn't nearly as nice to use as my old rollerball ones used to be... :sigh: (and :cry: ) (And, if I recall correctly, they also only had acceleration and speed settings. The 'momentum' must have been the additional factor???)
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
It might just be that the build quality of Logitech mice has become worse. I used to own a G5, first generation laser mouse, and it was perfect. Then I broke it, and bought a second generation one, G500 rebrand. The build quality was noticeably worse, but still OK. Then it broke on me, and I bought a third generation one, G510 rebrand. This time. the wire was made from a very cheap material, it had swappable weights as a gimmick, and it practically disintegrated on it's own within 5 months. After that, I noticed that SteelSeries did a cheap nock-off version of the G5, so I moved on to the Rival 300 and I've been using that one ever since. I recently looked into buying a second Rival 300 for the office, but they discontinued the entire line, in favor of more gimmicks, overall lower build quality.. at double the price. And their latest drivers have ads, and break macro support entirely. To me, it seems like every peripheral company likes to release strong products initially, but will then cut costs aggressively for all subsequent generations. As a result, my next mouse will probably be a non-descript Chinese brand, that can present a compelling bill-of-materials and a friendly customer service by means of auto-translated responses. It might read bad on paper, but at least China is giving me quality at an agreeable price point. Logitech nowadays is like buying sub-par quality and gimmicks at a premium price point, or garbage quality at an economic price point. Neither option compels me.
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It might just be that the build quality of Logitech mice has become worse. I used to own a G5, first generation laser mouse, and it was perfect. Then I broke it, and bought a second generation one, G500 rebrand. The build quality was noticeably worse, but still OK. Then it broke on me, and I bought a third generation one, G510 rebrand. This time. the wire was made from a very cheap material, it had swappable weights as a gimmick, and it practically disintegrated on it's own within 5 months. After that, I noticed that SteelSeries did a cheap nock-off version of the G5, so I moved on to the Rival 300 and I've been using that one ever since. I recently looked into buying a second Rival 300 for the office, but they discontinued the entire line, in favor of more gimmicks, overall lower build quality.. at double the price. And their latest drivers have ads, and break macro support entirely. To me, it seems like every peripheral company likes to release strong products initially, but will then cut costs aggressively for all subsequent generations. As a result, my next mouse will probably be a non-descript Chinese brand, that can present a compelling bill-of-materials and a friendly customer service by means of auto-translated responses. It might read bad on paper, but at least China is giving me quality at an agreeable price point. Logitech nowadays is like buying sub-par quality and gimmicks at a premium price point, or garbage quality at an economic price point. Neither option compels me.
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My problem with modern mice isn't ball vs laser, but cordless vs wired. I keep getting told I had just a bad one and I should try again, but *every* cordless mouse I ever tried had this problem where, because they're so aggressively trying to conserve battery power, they're constantly trying to go to sleep, so if I'm in the middle of trying to do some precision selection, it'll go to sleep mode and I have to give it a jerk to wake it up...but in doing that, the pointer is now at the other end of the screen. Wired FTW. The same with network connections. I despise Wi-Fi.
-
Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
What we need is expo (exponential) like on RC airplane transmitters. You can set the rate, total throw, and a dead zone. Most importantly you can make the acceleration increase as the movement gets further from the center and adjust the rate of the expo to your liking. Gives you great fine control at first, then lots of throw when things start to go horribly wrong.
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Or were old rollerball mice (where the ball was under the mouse) far better, in a way, than modern laser mice? I remember long ago I could set mouse acceleration and speed so the mouse was far more responsive and intuitive than modern laser mice, or at least the mice I have had. Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements, but slowing down quickly brought back precision. I have been using Logitech almost exclusively throughout the years, and those old memories haunt me, reminding me of older, better times, when our world wasn't split along the divides it is now. On the other hand, I remember having to clean them regularly... Is my memory going bad? I would go back to those old mouse memories in spite of the cleaning problems, if it gave me back the precision I remember...
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I do not think they are better but they (still) have their purpose.
David O'Neil wrote:
Small, short movements, resulted in small, precise screen movements, whereas larger movements resulted in larger screen movements
That was due to software settings (mainly acceleration) in the OS but also due to them being analog and the way they are built. When you move the ball, the movement is transferred to variable resistors (part of a voltage divider) or infrared incremental encoders, both of which do not have a linear scale. The faster you move the bigger is the number reported to the OS (or smaller of someone screwed it when designing the mouse).
David O'Neil wrote:
I remember having to clean them regularly
That is a major pain but is minimized if you can keep the surface clean. Personally, I still use a HP two button serial ball mouse on the field because it works on every surface (even dirt), or use your fingers if you do not have a surface, and that thing is basically indestructible. It has been run over by cars, drowned, fell from considerable heights, etc, and except some scratches it still works ;) At home I currently use a Logitech MX master 3 that I alternate with my old Wacom Bamboo Fun pen (I can not use a mouse for long periods because of my RSI).
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I somehow prefer the worst of both worlds, trackballs, they have a ball that gets dirty and are laser tracked :cool:
I tried a trackball once, but hated the response I got. Tried again. Still hated it. Glad they work for you! :laugh:
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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That behavior can probably be implemented via drivers / settings. I think it would require some getting used to if making that switch. I don't miss having to clean the mouse.
I still have to clean my mouse! :laugh: Must not be the cleanest person around, because lint gets in them, then they stop tracking when the laser gets confused in the lint!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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Your memory is bad. Or rather, you're mixing up two things here, namely the quality of the sensor (which, for ball mice, is shit) and the tooling around it. Optical mice are precise, ball mice aren't. Even without lint getting in the rollers (have fun pretending to prevent that), the mechanics ain't precise in the slightest. But that's what not what you're talking about. You're talking about settings kicking in after reading the sensor, before the results get translated to cursor movements. It seems, you're fond of mouse acceleration. I don't judge here, not everyone of us has to be a gamer. However, there's absolutely nothing preventing you from enabling mouse acceleration with a modern mouse. It's not the mouse that does this, it's the software! Windows got a mouse acceleration setting (albeit labeled somewhat awkwardly) right in the mouse control panel. So enable acceleration there and enjoy what you're used to with a modern mouse.
A little assumptive, there, Member 9167057? Acceleration was enabled when I installed the mouse. I've played with it a few times since then, to see if any other setting worked better, but I've got it tuned as best it can be with the software settings available. But it isn't as nice as the old-style mice. ElectronProgrammer gave what is probably the real reason down below. My old ball mice were more precise than my newer laser mice, regardless of your beliefs.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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My problem with modern mice isn't ball vs laser, but cordless vs wired. I keep getting told I had just a bad one and I should try again, but *every* cordless mouse I ever tried had this problem where, because they're so aggressively trying to conserve battery power, they're constantly trying to go to sleep, so if I'm in the middle of trying to do some precision selection, it'll go to sleep mode and I have to give it a jerk to wake it up...but in doing that, the pointer is now at the other end of the screen. Wired FTW. The same with network connections. I despise Wi-Fi.
agree. I had a wireless mouse chewing batteries. Later I discovered I could remove/reinsert the battery, and it would work again for about the same amount of time. Probably firmware issues. But that left a bad taste. I use one ONLY when I travel. It's cleaner/easier to pack. Also, I had a slanted keyboard tray for the mouse. And the Wired one falls Elegantly without hitting the ground. The wireless. It's like it's trying out for the Olympics Distance Bounce under the desk. LOL
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Your memory is fine. I remember discussions about cleaning mouse balls, with different interpretations of what that meant!đŸ˜‚đŸ˜‚đŸ˜‚
Maybe you are thinking of that old mouse ball replacement memo at IBM? Mouse ball replacement[^] It was a real memo, but not one actually distributed to field service engineers (as the story claims that it was) - it was just an internal joke at IBM. Another internal IBM joke (which I think is a good one!): The IBM 360 series (of the 1960s) used as a logo a full circle with one radius drawn (sort of like the on/off symbol used on some buttons). So when the 360 series was replaced by the 370 series, what sort of logo did they give it? A larger circle ... :-) They added a larger circle, around the 360 circle, touching at the bottom where the radius met the circle(s). This double-circle logo was never used externally in marketing, though.
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A little assumptive, there, Member 9167057? Acceleration was enabled when I installed the mouse. I've played with it a few times since then, to see if any other setting worked better, but I've got it tuned as best it can be with the software settings available. But it isn't as nice as the old-style mice. ElectronProgrammer gave what is probably the real reason down below. My old ball mice were more precise than my newer laser mice, regardless of your beliefs.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
If I wanted to be assumptive, I'd go great lengths assuming use cases where mouse acceleration is more precise/better, than a 1:1 translation.