Thank you, Microsoft
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This is not sarcasm, for once. I am doing a bunch of contacts. The ability to parse web page source text in an Access memo box, add the appropriate items to the DB, and keep track of the contact information in the DB (and, even though I haven't gotten there yet, being able in Outlook to open up Access and add the send and reply dates back into the DB from there (should be doable, but haven't tackled it yet)), is a MASSIVE help. Everyone seems to shit on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily if you coded it up nicely, and I haven't came across anything in VBA that forces you not to code it nicely. People complain about the cost of Office, but with Access, the power is amazing when you are aware of it. I still want to complain about the cost, but there is no way in hell I could single-handedly code a suite like that in less than twenty years; probably many many more! It is cheap for what you can get out of it. So thank you! (But don't take this as an excuse to raise prices - you've distributed the cost among enough of us - quit being greedy; profits don't have to increase each year. Just making a profit when so many people are struggling to live should be good enough.) But quit worrying about stupid icons so much, and eliminate that totally utterly stupid idea of forcing an MS account just to install Windows. Your corporate head honchos are bending over backwards to make a dystopian future where everyone is looked at as a number with a revenue stream associated with it. Quit it! Focus on improving the user experience! Like some of the flakiness of Word when pictures are moved around! And combining the Control Panel and the new Settings program! Based on how well you did with VBA and Office overall, and my praise thereof, YOU CAN DO IT!!! Best wishes for a continuously improving future!!! And Thanks Again!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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This is not sarcasm, for once. I am doing a bunch of contacts. The ability to parse web page source text in an Access memo box, add the appropriate items to the DB, and keep track of the contact information in the DB (and, even though I haven't gotten there yet, being able in Outlook to open up Access and add the send and reply dates back into the DB from there (should be doable, but haven't tackled it yet)), is a MASSIVE help. Everyone seems to shit on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily if you coded it up nicely, and I haven't came across anything in VBA that forces you not to code it nicely. People complain about the cost of Office, but with Access, the power is amazing when you are aware of it. I still want to complain about the cost, but there is no way in hell I could single-handedly code a suite like that in less than twenty years; probably many many more! It is cheap for what you can get out of it. So thank you! (But don't take this as an excuse to raise prices - you've distributed the cost among enough of us - quit being greedy; profits don't have to increase each year. Just making a profit when so many people are struggling to live should be good enough.) But quit worrying about stupid icons so much, and eliminate that totally utterly stupid idea of forcing an MS account just to install Windows. Your corporate head honchos are bending over backwards to make a dystopian future where everyone is looked at as a number with a revenue stream associated with it. Quit it! Focus on improving the user experience! Like some of the flakiness of Word when pictures are moved around! And combining the Control Panel and the new Settings program! Based on how well you did with VBA and Office overall, and my praise thereof, YOU CAN DO IT!!! Best wishes for a continuously improving future!!! And Thanks Again!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
Access is the hidden gem in Office. It's a fully relational database, including all the data definitions, macros, forms, queries, VBA code, etc. being stored in tables. It has a powerful but relatively simple to use UI, and is perfect for workgroups on a high speed LAN.
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Access is the hidden gem in Office. It's a fully relational database, including all the data definitions, macros, forms, queries, VBA code, etc. being stored in tables. It has a powerful but relatively simple to use UI, and is perfect for workgroups on a high speed LAN.
I created a project tracking management system in it for a multi-million dollar company a few years ago. It should have been a full SQL system of some sort, but they were clueless (running off Excel spreadsheets till then), and I didn't have the time to learn anything else because I was doing full-time engineering project management for them. I set up a system that tracked projects by part number or project, tracked change notice requests to the last person it was given to, with a full prior track log, allowed assigning tasks to individual people, kept a status, and I forget what else. I was truly amazed at what I could do without any real issues, and I could easily see adding to the system to keep track of purchasing info for individual parts, tracking parts across the production floor, etc. Access was totally capable of all of it. Not good at individual permissions and security, or going above 3 or 4GB, but everything else? No issues, although it may get a little slow as the DB increased. Anyway, one thing I've always asked myself is why don't people use Access as a reporting mechanism more often? I've heard everyone hate endlessly on Crystal Reports. I did not see anything I couldn't get Access to report that I needed, even if it involved setting up temp work tables to get things done. Since Access can access SQL DBs, why isn't it used for an easy reporting mechanism? They may not look flashy, but you could send some types of reports to Word templates and get pretty damn flashy that way. Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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This is not sarcasm, for once. I am doing a bunch of contacts. The ability to parse web page source text in an Access memo box, add the appropriate items to the DB, and keep track of the contact information in the DB (and, even though I haven't gotten there yet, being able in Outlook to open up Access and add the send and reply dates back into the DB from there (should be doable, but haven't tackled it yet)), is a MASSIVE help. Everyone seems to shit on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily if you coded it up nicely, and I haven't came across anything in VBA that forces you not to code it nicely. People complain about the cost of Office, but with Access, the power is amazing when you are aware of it. I still want to complain about the cost, but there is no way in hell I could single-handedly code a suite like that in less than twenty years; probably many many more! It is cheap for what you can get out of it. So thank you! (But don't take this as an excuse to raise prices - you've distributed the cost among enough of us - quit being greedy; profits don't have to increase each year. Just making a profit when so many people are struggling to live should be good enough.) But quit worrying about stupid icons so much, and eliminate that totally utterly stupid idea of forcing an MS account just to install Windows. Your corporate head honchos are bending over backwards to make a dystopian future where everyone is looked at as a number with a revenue stream associated with it. Quit it! Focus on improving the user experience! Like some of the flakiness of Word when pictures are moved around! And combining the Control Panel and the new Settings program! Based on how well you did with VBA and Office overall, and my praise thereof, YOU CAN DO IT!!! Best wishes for a continuously improving future!!! And Thanks Again!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
David O'Neil wrote:
Everyone seems to sh*t on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily
My brother works in a multinational corporation (I think they are the fourth biggest in their field) and most of their internal monthly accounting is made in Excel, assisted by VBA macros for the more complex things (like reading the detailed results of the month and filling out the official accounting software mandated by the different governments). But you haven't heard that from me :suss: A long time ago (1995, I think), when I was starting to program, I built a DB with GUI in Access for a library. At that time Access allowed to build GUIs, do not know if it still does. On delivery, the guy who hired me commented "This is all in Access? It looks great."
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David O'Neil wrote:
Everyone seems to sh*t on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily
My brother works in a multinational corporation (I think they are the fourth biggest in their field) and most of their internal monthly accounting is made in Excel, assisted by VBA macros for the more complex things (like reading the detailed results of the month and filling out the official accounting software mandated by the different governments). But you haven't heard that from me :suss: A long time ago (1995, I think), when I was starting to program, I built a DB with GUI in Access for a library. At that time Access allowed to build GUIs, do not know if it still does. On delivery, the guy who hired me commented "This is all in Access? It looks great."
ElectronProgrammer wrote:
At that time Access allowed to build GUIs, do not know if it still does.
2010 does, and I bet the newer versions also do. Haven't played with them.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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I created a project tracking management system in it for a multi-million dollar company a few years ago. It should have been a full SQL system of some sort, but they were clueless (running off Excel spreadsheets till then), and I didn't have the time to learn anything else because I was doing full-time engineering project management for them. I set up a system that tracked projects by part number or project, tracked change notice requests to the last person it was given to, with a full prior track log, allowed assigning tasks to individual people, kept a status, and I forget what else. I was truly amazed at what I could do without any real issues, and I could easily see adding to the system to keep track of purchasing info for individual parts, tracking parts across the production floor, etc. Access was totally capable of all of it. Not good at individual permissions and security, or going above 3 or 4GB, but everything else? No issues, although it may get a little slow as the DB increased. Anyway, one thing I've always asked myself is why don't people use Access as a reporting mechanism more often? I've heard everyone hate endlessly on Crystal Reports. I did not see anything I couldn't get Access to report that I needed, even if it involved setting up temp work tables to get things done. Since Access can access SQL DBs, why isn't it used for an easy reporting mechanism? They may not look flashy, but you could send some types of reports to Word templates and get pretty damn flashy that way. Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I think many are clueless about what Access is. It is mostly a mentality thing. Many former colleagues of mine through the years (programmers, DB administrators, etc) think that Access is not a true DB, only a toy for people who just want to play with something that looks like a DB. I always reply to them that legos are also "toys" and yet, many great professional looking things can be built with them that are not used for playing (like cars, bridges, etc).
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I created a project tracking management system in it for a multi-million dollar company a few years ago. It should have been a full SQL system of some sort, but they were clueless (running off Excel spreadsheets till then), and I didn't have the time to learn anything else because I was doing full-time engineering project management for them. I set up a system that tracked projects by part number or project, tracked change notice requests to the last person it was given to, with a full prior track log, allowed assigning tasks to individual people, kept a status, and I forget what else. I was truly amazed at what I could do without any real issues, and I could easily see adding to the system to keep track of purchasing info for individual parts, tracking parts across the production floor, etc. Access was totally capable of all of it. Not good at individual permissions and security, or going above 3 or 4GB, but everything else? No issues, although it may get a little slow as the DB increased. Anyway, one thing I've always asked myself is why don't people use Access as a reporting mechanism more often? I've heard everyone hate endlessly on Crystal Reports. I did not see anything I couldn't get Access to report that I needed, even if it involved setting up temp work tables to get things done. Since Access can access SQL DBs, why isn't it used for an easy reporting mechanism? They may not look flashy, but you could send some types of reports to Word templates and get pretty damn flashy that way. Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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For smaller projects Access would be great. For large solutions there is the problem with a restriction because Microsoft Access has a limit of 255 columns per table.
From my experience, I can see absolutely no reason to have that many columns. I got to look at BPCS, that the company used, and it was an absolute nightmare of a design, that I replicated some of with well-designed relational tables. I doubt I ever used many more than ten columns per a table, because there was absolutely no reason to do so if you normalize the data. But maybe I'm missing something.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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This is not sarcasm, for once. I am doing a bunch of contacts. The ability to parse web page source text in an Access memo box, add the appropriate items to the DB, and keep track of the contact information in the DB (and, even though I haven't gotten there yet, being able in Outlook to open up Access and add the send and reply dates back into the DB from there (should be doable, but haven't tackled it yet)), is a MASSIVE help. Everyone seems to shit on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily if you coded it up nicely, and I haven't came across anything in VBA that forces you not to code it nicely. People complain about the cost of Office, but with Access, the power is amazing when you are aware of it. I still want to complain about the cost, but there is no way in hell I could single-handedly code a suite like that in less than twenty years; probably many many more! It is cheap for what you can get out of it. So thank you! (But don't take this as an excuse to raise prices - you've distributed the cost among enough of us - quit being greedy; profits don't have to increase each year. Just making a profit when so many people are struggling to live should be good enough.) But quit worrying about stupid icons so much, and eliminate that totally utterly stupid idea of forcing an MS account just to install Windows. Your corporate head honchos are bending over backwards to make a dystopian future where everyone is looked at as a number with a revenue stream associated with it. Quit it! Focus on improving the user experience! Like some of the flakiness of Word when pictures are moved around! And combining the Control Panel and the new Settings program! Based on how well you did with VBA and Office overall, and my praise thereof, YOU CAN DO IT!!! Best wishes for a continuously improving future!!! And Thanks Again!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
Access is a tool. Like any other tool, it has its purpose. Use it for the wrong purpose and one is destined for failure. The reason most poo-poo on Access is because for most, it is not the correct tool for the job, SQL Server, Oracle, etc. are the correct tools for the job. and yes, if you have a table that needs more than 255 columns, then you have much bigger problems on your hands than Access.
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I created a project tracking management system in it for a multi-million dollar company a few years ago. It should have been a full SQL system of some sort, but they were clueless (running off Excel spreadsheets till then), and I didn't have the time to learn anything else because I was doing full-time engineering project management for them. I set up a system that tracked projects by part number or project, tracked change notice requests to the last person it was given to, with a full prior track log, allowed assigning tasks to individual people, kept a status, and I forget what else. I was truly amazed at what I could do without any real issues, and I could easily see adding to the system to keep track of purchasing info for individual parts, tracking parts across the production floor, etc. Access was totally capable of all of it. Not good at individual permissions and security, or going above 3 or 4GB, but everything else? No issues, although it may get a little slow as the DB increased. Anyway, one thing I've always asked myself is why don't people use Access as a reporting mechanism more often? I've heard everyone hate endlessly on Crystal Reports. I did not see anything I couldn't get Access to report that I needed, even if it involved setting up temp work tables to get things done. Since Access can access SQL DBs, why isn't it used for an easy reporting mechanism? They may not look flashy, but you could send some types of reports to Word templates and get pretty damn flashy that way. Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
David O'Neil wrote:
Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Perception. Many think of Access as a toy, so if they're going to spend any serious amount of time putting together some system that needs a DB, they're not going to want to mention in their resume they did it with Access. My opinion anyway. [Edit] Oh...and when I say "my opinion"...I mean, that's my opinion of how it's perceived. Not necessarily my opinion of Access's usefulness.
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David O'Neil wrote:
Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Perception. Many think of Access as a toy, so if they're going to spend any serious amount of time putting together some system that needs a DB, they're not going to want to mention in their resume they did it with Access. My opinion anyway. [Edit] Oh...and when I say "my opinion"...I mean, that's my opinion of how it's perceived. Not necessarily my opinion of Access's usefulness.
I'm using MS Access since > 20 years for my private DBs and it does a good job for me, but: What may happen if you use it in a bigger company and one of the other limitations of MS Access become(s) a bottleneck? Limits: - Total size for an Access database (.accdb or .mdb), including all database objects and data: 2 gigabytes, minus the space needed for system objects. - Total number of objects in a database: 32,768 - Query Recordset size: 1 gigabyte and many more as shown here: Access specifications[^]
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This is not sarcasm, for once. I am doing a bunch of contacts. The ability to parse web page source text in an Access memo box, add the appropriate items to the DB, and keep track of the contact information in the DB (and, even though I haven't gotten there yet, being able in Outlook to open up Access and add the send and reply dates back into the DB from there (should be doable, but haven't tackled it yet)), is a MASSIVE help. Everyone seems to shit on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily if you coded it up nicely, and I haven't came across anything in VBA that forces you not to code it nicely. People complain about the cost of Office, but with Access, the power is amazing when you are aware of it. I still want to complain about the cost, but there is no way in hell I could single-handedly code a suite like that in less than twenty years; probably many many more! It is cheap for what you can get out of it. So thank you! (But don't take this as an excuse to raise prices - you've distributed the cost among enough of us - quit being greedy; profits don't have to increase each year. Just making a profit when so many people are struggling to live should be good enough.) But quit worrying about stupid icons so much, and eliminate that totally utterly stupid idea of forcing an MS account just to install Windows. Your corporate head honchos are bending over backwards to make a dystopian future where everyone is looked at as a number with a revenue stream associated with it. Quit it! Focus on improving the user experience! Like some of the flakiness of Word when pictures are moved around! And combining the Control Panel and the new Settings program! Based on how well you did with VBA and Office overall, and my praise thereof, YOU CAN DO IT!!! Best wishes for a continuously improving future!!! And Thanks Again!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
I too love Access, for the right sort of jobs. However the problem that I often see is when a non-programmer builds a simple solution with Access. At first, no big deal. But then over time, new functionality gets patched on, Now fast forward a few years, and you have this behemoth of an app, built with loads of spaghetti-style code, and no one really knows how it works anymore. Now they turn to the professional developers to fix things in it or add yet more functionality, and we are left with this Ball of Mud to sort out. One company I worked with had one such Access DB, with multiple forms and reports, that had become crucial to their business over the course of almost 20 years of patching. They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing. And full of these little bugs that they wanted fixed. They thought upgrading to a new version of Access (they were still on Office 2003) would fix their problems.... Long story short - like any tool, you need to use it properly. Programming in Access is like programming in any other language, and needs some forethought for anything beyond trivial solutions.
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Access is a tool. Like any other tool, it has its purpose. Use it for the wrong purpose and one is destined for failure. The reason most poo-poo on Access is because for most, it is not the correct tool for the job, SQL Server, Oracle, etc. are the correct tools for the job. and yes, if you have a table that needs more than 255 columns, then you have much bigger problems on your hands than Access.
I used Access since it first came out. I still do at times. I switched to SQK Server after it came out, mostly because of the 32767 limit.
Access is a tool. Like any other tool, it has its purpose. Use it for the wrong purpose and one is destined for failure.
I agree with you one hundred percent! the same can be said for, and is equally true about VB in ALL of it's forms from VB6 to the latest version of VB.net. The same can be said for other languages, for that matter. I'm looking at you, Griff. Just because you like one language better than others, does not give you the right to rundown the others.
ED
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I too love Access, for the right sort of jobs. However the problem that I often see is when a non-programmer builds a simple solution with Access. At first, no big deal. But then over time, new functionality gets patched on, Now fast forward a few years, and you have this behemoth of an app, built with loads of spaghetti-style code, and no one really knows how it works anymore. Now they turn to the professional developers to fix things in it or add yet more functionality, and we are left with this Ball of Mud to sort out. One company I worked with had one such Access DB, with multiple forms and reports, that had become crucial to their business over the course of almost 20 years of patching. They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing. And full of these little bugs that they wanted fixed. They thought upgrading to a new version of Access (they were still on Office 2003) would fix their problems.... Long story short - like any tool, you need to use it properly. Programming in Access is like programming in any other language, and needs some forethought for anything beyond trivial solutions.
Andreas Mertens wrote:
They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing
Ungh!!! [That's Rough, Buddy](https://youtu.be/voP9um7yi1Y?t=81)!!!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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Andreas Mertens wrote:
They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing
Ungh!!! [That's Rough, Buddy](https://youtu.be/voP9um7yi1Y?t=81)!!!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
It was. It would be nice if you could easily put all of the code and forms into git or some other version control system
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David O'Neil wrote:
Is there something I'm just unaware of, not having been involved in DB development work other than experiences like the above?
Perception. Many think of Access as a toy, so if they're going to spend any serious amount of time putting together some system that needs a DB, they're not going to want to mention in their resume they did it with Access. My opinion anyway. [Edit] Oh...and when I say "my opinion"...I mean, that's my opinion of how it's perceived. Not necessarily my opinion of Access's usefulness.
I've been poking around YouTube, trying to find whether SQL has Access's query design interface/tool/whatever. Designing queries in Access seems MUCH easier than SQL's offering, but maybe I'm not using the right search terms.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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It was. It would be nice if you could easily put all of the code and forms into git or some other version control system
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I too love Access, for the right sort of jobs. However the problem that I often see is when a non-programmer builds a simple solution with Access. At first, no big deal. But then over time, new functionality gets patched on, Now fast forward a few years, and you have this behemoth of an app, built with loads of spaghetti-style code, and no one really knows how it works anymore. Now they turn to the professional developers to fix things in it or add yet more functionality, and we are left with this Ball of Mud to sort out. One company I worked with had one such Access DB, with multiple forms and reports, that had become crucial to their business over the course of almost 20 years of patching. They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing. And full of these little bugs that they wanted fixed. They thought upgrading to a new version of Access (they were still on Office 2003) would fix their problems.... Long story short - like any tool, you need to use it properly. Programming in Access is like programming in any other language, and needs some forethought for anything beyond trivial solutions.
I once wrote an entire management system for a school department in Access in one week while I had a severe flu that only gave me about four hours of coherence per day. I wasted at least one whole day on a series of cascading drop downs for the most complicated screen. (I will blame that delay on delirium) If you like Access, check out OutSystems. I think of it as a cloud hosted, multiuser super-Access. Similar speed of development for simple CRUD apps.
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Or have some more tables that help control when to display the estimates. Copying the MDB to change a formula is probably not the best way.
Or better yet, a query?
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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This is not sarcasm, for once. I am doing a bunch of contacts. The ability to parse web page source text in an Access memo box, add the appropriate items to the DB, and keep track of the contact information in the DB (and, even though I haven't gotten there yet, being able in Outlook to open up Access and add the send and reply dates back into the DB from there (should be doable, but haven't tackled it yet)), is a MASSIVE help. Everyone seems to shit on Office and VBA, but when used correctly it is TREMENDOUSLY POWERFUL! A small business could be ran with it pretty easily if you coded it up nicely, and I haven't came across anything in VBA that forces you not to code it nicely. People complain about the cost of Office, but with Access, the power is amazing when you are aware of it. I still want to complain about the cost, but there is no way in hell I could single-handedly code a suite like that in less than twenty years; probably many many more! It is cheap for what you can get out of it. So thank you! (But don't take this as an excuse to raise prices - you've distributed the cost among enough of us - quit being greedy; profits don't have to increase each year. Just making a profit when so many people are struggling to live should be good enough.) But quit worrying about stupid icons so much, and eliminate that totally utterly stupid idea of forcing an MS account just to install Windows. Your corporate head honchos are bending over backwards to make a dystopian future where everyone is looked at as a number with a revenue stream associated with it. Quit it! Focus on improving the user experience! Like some of the flakiness of Word when pictures are moved around! And combining the Control Panel and the new Settings program! Based on how well you did with VBA and Office overall, and my praise thereof, YOU CAN DO IT!!! Best wishes for a continuously improving future!!! And Thanks Again!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
Further yay! Got Outlook talking to Access, so can now log sent (and in the future, received) emails as they are sent and received! Can even do basic templates for email lists, and fill in the addresses and salutations from Access as well, so it goes both ways! The only issue is that Outlook locks up while sending emails, because it doesn't have a true method to trigger timer events so the main thread pretty much locks up.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++