Running Visual Studio 2022 in Windowws 11 on Parallels on a mac mini M1
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
Wouldn't it be cheaper (in terms of your time if nothing else) to just buy a Surface? :D
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
Out of curiosity, why running VS virtualized instead of running your dev environment native & merely using virtualized Windows as a debug target?
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
Hang on in there Chris: [Visual Studio on ARM powered devices - Visual Studio (Windows) | Microsoft Docs](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/install/visual-studio-on-arm-devices?view=vs-2022) > 17.3 Preview 2 release of Visual Studio 2022 will include support for Windows 11 on Arm64! This version of Visual Studio will run natively on Arm64, giving developers the ability to build and debug apps directly on Arm64-based Windows 11 devices. Checkout the release blog to learn more. Apparently (according to that release blog), it's coming Real Soon Now. Also (I believe) you can build for an ARM target on an X64 host and then copy your binaries and PDBs to the Mac for debugging (I do something similar with Xcode).
Paul Sanders. Not that the story need be long, but it will take a long while to make it short - Henry David Thoreau Some of my best work is in the undo buffer.
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
I have a MacBook Pro M1 Max 32 GB 16 Core and then I set 16 GB 8 CPU to my Win11 on Parallel VM. My experience with the legacy project and VS 2022 was similar. Those project has too many files inside the solution. However I don’t feel this is loading faster.
Carlos B
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Hang on in there Chris: [Visual Studio on ARM powered devices - Visual Studio (Windows) | Microsoft Docs](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/install/visual-studio-on-arm-devices?view=vs-2022) > 17.3 Preview 2 release of Visual Studio 2022 will include support for Windows 11 on Arm64! This version of Visual Studio will run natively on Arm64, giving developers the ability to build and debug apps directly on Arm64-based Windows 11 devices. Checkout the release blog to learn more. Apparently (according to that release blog), it's coming Real Soon Now. Also (I believe) you can build for an ARM target on an X64 host and then copy your binaries and PDBs to the Mac for debugging (I do something similar with Xcode).
Paul Sanders. Not that the story need be long, but it will take a long while to make it short - Henry David Thoreau Some of my best work is in the undo buffer.
fan-bloody-tastic!!
cheers Chris Maunder
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I know. Enough time to get a coffee. Every. Single. Build.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Wouldn't it be cheaper (in terms of your time if nothing else) to just buy a Surface? :D
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Don't get me started...
cheers Chris Maunder
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But... but... but, why?
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
Short version: Because! Longer more thoughtful version: I find myself, like lots of people, using Zoom and Facetime and message apps for meetings and communication, and much of this is through FaceTime or iMessage. Not all, but enough that I find I'm switching to my phone or iPad for these things, and I often miss notifications. Having them all in front of me on my Dev machine is a huge bonus. I miss less, I can open a link in a real browser, cut and paste, type easier, and just hop on a call without switching devices. I also love the Apple hardware. I've tried, so, so SO many times to find the ultimate laptop and I've given up. You name it, I've tried it, including stupid expensive ones hailed as the Greatest Of All Time. I *think* I've managed to break a 10 year old Macbook Air that's been passed around more times than the village bicycle. Their stuff is just really well made. On top of this, battery life of macOS (or anything probably) vs Windows is night and day. Windows on Arm is changing this (though it still has teething issues) and the new Intel chips are certainly catching up on power management, but generally I get 2-3hrs battery life developing on a Windows machine, vs not actually running out of battery in a typical session while using a Mac. Beyond that there's a need in me to step out of the Microsoft space. It's a comfortable, cozy place to be, but I need to play in the Linux and macOS space in order to ensure not only my skills and knowledge is relevant, but that my way of thinking and designing isn't blinkered. Now as to the "why" of Visual Studio under Parallels (the core of the question), it's because WebForms. I hates them. With a deep dark burning passion. Except the UI for CodeProject is all webforms and there's not enough of a business case to spend the 6 months rewriting it all. So until Microsoft offers WebForms for .NET 6+ (which won't happen) I need an environment that allows me to developer on .NET 4.8.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Out of curiosity, why running VS virtualized instead of running your dev environment native & merely using virtualized Windows as a debug target?
I want to see if I can have an Apple silicon mac as my main machine
cheers Chris Maunder
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Short version: Because! Longer more thoughtful version: I find myself, like lots of people, using Zoom and Facetime and message apps for meetings and communication, and much of this is through FaceTime or iMessage. Not all, but enough that I find I'm switching to my phone or iPad for these things, and I often miss notifications. Having them all in front of me on my Dev machine is a huge bonus. I miss less, I can open a link in a real browser, cut and paste, type easier, and just hop on a call without switching devices. I also love the Apple hardware. I've tried, so, so SO many times to find the ultimate laptop and I've given up. You name it, I've tried it, including stupid expensive ones hailed as the Greatest Of All Time. I *think* I've managed to break a 10 year old Macbook Air that's been passed around more times than the village bicycle. Their stuff is just really well made. On top of this, battery life of macOS (or anything probably) vs Windows is night and day. Windows on Arm is changing this (though it still has teething issues) and the new Intel chips are certainly catching up on power management, but generally I get 2-3hrs battery life developing on a Windows machine, vs not actually running out of battery in a typical session while using a Mac. Beyond that there's a need in me to step out of the Microsoft space. It's a comfortable, cozy place to be, but I need to play in the Linux and macOS space in order to ensure not only my skills and knowledge is relevant, but that my way of thinking and designing isn't blinkered. Now as to the "why" of Visual Studio under Parallels (the core of the question), it's because WebForms. I hates them. With a deep dark burning passion. Except the UI for CodeProject is all webforms and there's not enough of a business case to spend the 6 months rewriting it all. So until Microsoft offers WebForms for .NET 6+ (which won't happen) I need an environment that allows me to developer on .NET 4.8.
cheers Chris Maunder
WebForms are one of those things people either love or hate. I've been using them since 2008 and am comfortable with the model. I've been exploring the newer models like Blazor and Razor, but they feel like a modern version of Classic ASP which turns me off a bit. Another developer here wants us to switch to MAUI or Uno, but I don't see the point as we don't do mobile apps. I bought a Mac exclusively for my music, and the hardware is good, but their software is just as buggy as anyone's.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Just in case anyone was foolish enough to try this. Setting up Parallels / Win11 on an M1 mac is really, really easy. You'll have a 64bit OS running 4 CPUs @ 3.2GHz and 6Gb RAM by default. Windows 11 is actually pretty snappy in Parallels. Setting up Visual Studio is the same ol' experience, except for the big DO NOT EVEN TRY INSTALLING VS ON ARM IT'LL BE TERRIBLE subtle warning that pops up. So we ignore that and move on. Visual Studio 2022 will run, but it runs through x64 emulation. It's not pretty. CodeProject Build times (80 projects) - 2 year old iMac i7 / 16GB: 43s - M1 mac mini 6Gb RAM / 4CPUs: 6m 47s Kinda rough. But it built and it debugged. Now let's max out the VM - M1 mac mini 10Gb RAM / 6CPUs: 6m 47s A significant gain. But still: ouch. Workable, but painful.
cheers Chris Maunder
I run on Macbook Pro 2019 (16gb RAM, 1tb SSD, 8 core i9 Intel). I use parallels extensively. I work in Windows but live in Mac. I have thought the Apple Silicon issue over and over, regarding what I'm going to do when I make the jump. I think the best solution until MS is more mainstream on Arm is to use Windows 365 Cloud PC. I administer AVD (Azure Virtual Desktop) for a large U.S. government entity now. It works very well. It is a bit pricey ($30/month ish) but is probably the best alternative to having another PC. Just thought I'd put this out there to give folks another option to consider.
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I run on Macbook Pro 2019 (16gb RAM, 1tb SSD, 8 core i9 Intel). I use parallels extensively. I work in Windows but live in Mac. I have thought the Apple Silicon issue over and over, regarding what I'm going to do when I make the jump. I think the best solution until MS is more mainstream on Arm is to use Windows 365 Cloud PC. I administer AVD (Azure Virtual Desktop) for a large U.S. government entity now. It works very well. It is a bit pricey ($30/month ish) but is probably the best alternative to having another PC. Just thought I'd put this out there to give folks another option to consider.
Yes - the cloud desktop is certainly a neat but pricey option. Pity it requires a decent connection to use (so no good travelling or where you have a bad connection)
cheers Chris Maunder
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WebForms are one of those things people either love or hate. I've been using them since 2008 and am comfortable with the model. I've been exploring the newer models like Blazor and Razor, but they feel like a modern version of Classic ASP which turns me off a bit. Another developer here wants us to switch to MAUI or Uno, but I don't see the point as we don't do mobile apps. I bought a Mac exclusively for my music, and the hardware is good, but their software is just as buggy as anyone's.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
I'm a huge fan of Razor pages. They are essentially webforms for .NET Core in my mind. I just really wish I could move to .NET Core with WebForms but the whole System.Web thing seem to have scarred the .NET team to the core. It's funny when we went from ASP -> ASP.NET and all the "never inline server side script blocks!" to Razor which demands "server side" script blocks. Do this! Don't do this! Do that other thing! Now do the old thing again! Head spins.
cheers Chris Maunder
