I hate recent C# versions!
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I really like ?? since they made it possible to throw.
something = myParameter ?? throw new ArgumentNullException(...)
also handy in if statements. Optional arguments: better than 100 overloads, but as with everything use with care. (): If indeed value tuples - better than what we had (no more Item1, Item2) ?[]: Never used it, but I use ?. all the time -and it would be strange if ?[] wasn't available as well. Discards: Handy when needed - do not use them a lot, but when you do they make it clear right away. Switch expressions: Why oh why.... where they not added earlier. No more crappy switch statements full of returns or variable assignments - and a compiler warning when I am missing a state. I need to figure out how to use them nicely with enums though - I want a catch all that throws if not a defined enum value, but still want a warning if a new enum value is added and I do not handle it And nullable in general is of course the best thing since sliced bre... no, wait - I can just eat the bread without slicing it! Just too bad it is a bit crippled as we still need to call legacy code and the required keyword isn't coming before next version.
lmoelleb wrote:
I need to figure out how to use them nicely with enums though - I want a catch all that throws if not a defined enum value, but still want a warning if a new enum value is added and I do not handle it
Once you figure it out... write a tip ;) :-D
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I really like ?? since they made it possible to throw.
something = myParameter ?? throw new ArgumentNullException(...)
also handy in if statements. Optional arguments: better than 100 overloads, but as with everything use with care. (): If indeed value tuples - better than what we had (no more Item1, Item2) ?[]: Never used it, but I use ?. all the time -and it would be strange if ?[] wasn't available as well. Discards: Handy when needed - do not use them a lot, but when you do they make it clear right away. Switch expressions: Why oh why.... where they not added earlier. No more crappy switch statements full of returns or variable assignments - and a compiler warning when I am missing a state. I need to figure out how to use them nicely with enums though - I want a catch all that throws if not a defined enum value, but still want a warning if a new enum value is added and I do not handle it And nullable in general is of course the best thing since sliced bre... no, wait - I can just eat the bread without slicing it! Just too bad it is a bit crippled as we still need to call legacy code and the required keyword isn't coming before next version.
lmoelleb wrote:
Switch expressions: Why oh why.... where they not added earlier.
Yes, exactly!
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Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
Maybe you would prefer VB 6.0? ;) Everything on your list is stuff that I use every day (except the
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Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
Never hate. I don't use any features of C# newer than v3. The other week I found that I was using a Dictionary Initializer (which is a v6 feature), so I reverted it to a Collection Initializer (which is a v3 feature). I use the ?? operator (the null-coalescing operator, a C# 2 feature) occasionally, such as when interpreting a command line.
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Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
Just like many here I use them daily. Especially ?? and ?. Sure as hell beats if (x != null && x.Y != null && x.Y.Z != null)... Discards are useful when you don't need the variable (for example, when doing a TryParse, but only want to validate and not directly use the value). Tuples are great and also beat having to write one-off classes that you'll never use again. Are you sure you hate the features or that you hate having to keep up and not understanding them?
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Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
You might want to watch this one: The functional journey of C# - Mads Torgersen - NDC Copenhagen 2022 - YouTube[^] It shows why some of these changes are made. Indeed the language is shifting to keep up with modern development, and if your mindset stays in the "traditional OO", then this just looks like bloat. You can also watch this one to see some of the things coming: Where’s C# headed? - Mads Torgersen - NDC Copenhagen 2022 - YouTube[^] Yep, more "functional programming" concepts are coming, and I am all for it.
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Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
The language needs to change as marketing decrees; otherwise it looks like it has halted in it's development. They can't sell something that is tested and tried, something that is reliable. It has to be shiny and new, not boring. That is also the reason VB6 did not die yet. It is tested, tried, reliable and doesn't change. As hard as we try, we cannot kill the beast.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Just like many here I use them daily. Especially ?? and ?. Sure as hell beats if (x != null && x.Y != null && x.Y.Z != null)... Discards are useful when you don't need the variable (for example, when doing a TryParse, but only want to validate and not directly use the value). Tuples are great and also beat having to write one-off classes that you'll never use again. Are you sure you hate the features or that you hate having to keep up and not understanding them?
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Sander Rossel wrote:
Are you sure you hate the features or that you hate having to keep up and not understanding them?
That may be the case. It does seem to get harder to constantly update your skillset, but every time I've done it so far it's been well worth it in the long run. The last big jump update was abandoning C++ (where feature creep is even worse than in C#) in favour of C#. And I have never regretted it: the speed of development and the clarity of the code is so much better - and that impacts the reliability and maintainability of the code as well.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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The language needs to change as marketing decrees; otherwise it looks like it has halted in it's development. They can't sell something that is tested and tried, something that is reliable. It has to be shiny and new, not boring. That is also the reason VB6 did not die yet. It is tested, tried, reliable and doesn't change. As hard as we try, we cannot kill the beast.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
As hard as we try, we cannot kill the beast.
Or can't we kill the beast because some of us aren't trying? I know a developer who'd still start new VB6 projects in 2022 because that's all he knows, it works and clients are satisfied. Why learn something new when the old still works? This person also uses hidden controls on a form to store values, instead of using variables like the rest of us do. Also, because it works, so why try harder? He'll be retiring later this year and he gets to keep all of his software and clients because no one, and I mean no one, could ever unearth whatever it is that he built. There are plenty of people like that, sort of technical quakers. We had technology in 1999, which is what God intended, and we need nothing newer.
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Some of them are pretty useful. For example:
private void DroppedURL\_DoWork(object sender, DoWorkEventArgs e) { if (sender is BackgroundWorker worker) { ...Makes code much cleaner than the traditional way:
private void DroppedURL\_DoWork(object sender, DoWorkEventArgs e) { BackgroundWorker worker = sender as BackgroundWorker; if (worker != null) { ..."I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Umm ...
ispredatesas, yes?asis intended as an improvement overis. -
Umm ...
ispredatesas, yes?asis intended as an improvement overis. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
As hard as we try, we cannot kill the beast.
Or can't we kill the beast because some of us aren't trying? I know a developer who'd still start new VB6 projects in 2022 because that's all he knows, it works and clients are satisfied. Why learn something new when the old still works? This person also uses hidden controls on a form to store values, instead of using variables like the rest of us do. Also, because it works, so why try harder? He'll be retiring later this year and he gets to keep all of his software and clients because no one, and I mean no one, could ever unearth whatever it is that he built. There are plenty of people like that, sort of technical quakers. We had technology in 1999, which is what God intended, and we need nothing newer.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sander Rossel wrote:
I know a developer who'd still start new VB6 projects in 2022 because that's all he knows, it works and clients are satisfied. Why learn something new when the old still works?
Well, that's the entire problem; it is reliable, doesn't change, and does exactly as intended for years on end. If his clients are satisfied, then they'll pay, even if the language is not "officially" supported. To make it worse; this person will have experience, and will have solved these problems before, where we are confronted with changes to the language each six months.
Sander Rossel wrote:
This person also uses hidden controls on a form to store values, instead of using variables like the rest of us do. Also, because it works, so why try harder?
I worked for someone who wrote our new flagship in C#, while I maintained the VB6 version, who put 31 booleans in a string-field in the database and claimed it to be efficient. You can be an idiot in any language, and I met some academically trained idiots too.
Sander Rossel wrote:
He'll be retiring later this year and he gets to keep all of his software and clients because no one, and I mean no one, could ever unearth whatever it is that he built.
You might want to learn from that :)
Sander Rossel wrote:
There are plenty of people like that, sort of technical quakers. We had technology in 1999, which is what God intended, and we need nothing newer.
We do not change for change's sake. Improvements, very welcome; but both the UI-changes since beveled components and the changes to the language specification (with breaking cost-inducing changes) are mostly changes without improvements. There's a cost to everything :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Never heard of it.
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C++ joined the chat
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Maybe under other names? - `is` with "declaration pattern" - Three-operand `is` - C#7-`is`
Seems kludgey. We need a whole new language with everything we've learned over the past twenty years included, with cleaner syntax, rather than bits stuck on at odd angles.
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The language needs to change as marketing decrees; otherwise it looks like it has halted in it's development. They can't sell something that is tested and tried, something that is reliable. It has to be shiny and new, not boring. That is also the reason VB6 did not die yet. It is tested, tried, reliable and doesn't change. As hard as we try, we cannot kill the beast.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The language needs to change as marketing decrees; otherwise it looks like it has halted in it's development.
Actually, if you look at the arc of the language changes (particularly the earlier ones) you can see how they evolved to add functional programming capabilities which was definitely needed to support mixed C#/F# programming styles. I tend to think that was the overall plan by Anders Hejlsberg rather than being driven by market forces. That said, yeah, lately it seems there's more of a "what can we change to keep it looking fresh" attitude, though again, I still think Anders is at the helm and wanting to push C# into what might be considered uncharted territories, though still, much of what he's doing has already been done, even if obscurely in languages like APL.
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Seems kludgey. We need a whole new language with everything we've learned over the past twenty years included, with cleaner syntax, rather than bits stuck on at odd angles.
The "best" part is that, like `out`-with-declaration, the declaration pollutes the scope *surrounding* the `if`. That's also annoying about the old pattern of using `as` and checking whether the result is `null`, but this new syntax syntactically suggests that it solves that long-standing annoyance and it doesn't.
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Be more positive - learn these additions, but use only if fits... After all - they do not force you!!!
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