Request for advice
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The problem with being vague (which is exactly what I did) is that it leaves the thread open to interpretation. Humans have bias, some very important codeproject contractors misinterpreted the thread. Mostly because the author deleted his posts and the moderators cleaned up the rest of the thread. A few netsec experts challenged the claim. Everything was deleted. Left me out in the open looking like an idiot. I won't make the same mistake again. Next time I will announce it on /r/netsec or [Ycombinator](https://news.ycombinator.com/). You guys here on codeproject live in a bubble, all 800 web devs read the news.
Randor wrote:
Mostly because the author deleted his posts and the moderators cleaned up the rest of the thread.
I don't like that behaviour, he deleting all the messages implies for me that he has something to hide. I would not delete such a thread. I missed the situation.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
It depends how pissed you are with the plagiarizer and how much time you have on your hands. Jumping up and screaming can be fun and getting into a flame war used to be a favourite pastime for some.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
If I had a couple of well known places supporting / proving my point, I think I would post the code involved and the links to the places cointaining it long time before the article of that other user. I would not name the user, though. If someone wants to dig deeper... own decission. Most people here should be able to find what they need to find if they wanted to.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Remain calm, and just point them at the original source. Don't besmirch him, just present the facts. Don't get involved in a slanging match - you never win an argument online with idiots or script kiddies. His reputation is his problem, not yours.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
most of those cybersecurity and ai frameworks could have opensource code in them but they sell for 100k... to enterprise... no point..more worse people and business exists...
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
I see no point in challenging something without being able to support any claims (i.e. evidence). And there are different ways of introducing evidence.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
Randor wrote:
Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group.
Not clear from your comment what the actual audience was. However there is no such thing as "public domain" code where there is no explicit license. Just because someone claims it is free and clear doesn't mean anything unless there is an explicit license that says just that. Even with secondary sources or worse someone claiming to be an authority claiming otherwise. And for companies and organizations using any existing code without knowing the license opens them up to public relation problems and potential civil liability also. And in some cases (US laws about security code) even criminal liability. So as a professional if I was in an company event then I would certainly test my own knowledge of what the actual license was after the event by specifically checking it and then publicly notifying everyone if I did not find an actual license that was acceptable (for a company to freely use.)
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
I'm not sure what your goal is here? "The truth must be told" but you want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. Those are not compatible statements, and you admit to publicly calling him out on it. It's not your beef; it is the original author's issue. And we lack details in your post to make any judgement on the wording of the "claim" he made or the context of how it was made. Remember, Al Gore invented the internet. Of course not, but he was influential in moving it along. The context and the exact words matter. I do have to say I am curious what 15 year old code is being used in modern cybersecurity. :suss:
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Well, I can only stand in front of my peers as a Christian and say that we all have made mistakes. The very message of Jesus is that we all live with faults. I accept all my faults and the resulting judgements. Nobody is perfect. I also want to be able to speak truthful. When I see something that is a lie I want to be able to show it. This situation wasn't a 'small' lie, it was kinda out in the open for millions to see.
I appreciate that your concern for being Christ-like is part of what you are considering and doing so openly! You have presented the plagiarism to the small group surrounding the individual. He could have retracted, excused, or backpedaled in some way. Apparently he didn't, though the evidence was presented. Time to make it public. He had a chance to do the right thing -- repent in Christian terms -- with minimal disgrace. He didn't. It's time he faces the full (earthly) consequences of his actions. That serves as a lesson to him and a warning to others. (Not quite the situation in Matthew 18, but Christ's guidelines there are coming out pretty close to your peers recommendations.)
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
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Well, I can only stand in front of my peers as a Christian and say that we all have made mistakes. The very message of Jesus is that we all live with faults. I accept all my faults and the resulting judgements. Nobody is perfect. I also want to be able to speak truthful. When I see something that is a lie I want to be able to show it. This situation wasn't a 'small' lie, it was kinda out in the open for millions to see.
As an atheist I agree with everything you said (except, obviously the Jesus part). I also agree with the first reply that said to just put the truth out there (after making sure it IS the truth) and whatever happens, happens. Truth IS important, for its own sake but also for setting the example that truth matters. No need to comment on the other person at all, as the other replier said, their reputation is their own.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
Appreciate the intent to take right actions. There have been a number of commendable replies too. One from, I think it's Roland Wilson, brought to mind a point worth considering. Jesus had no problem pointing out the wayward and corrupt nature of the religious leaders of the time and being public about it. How in this case that position would be applied I can only think of the violation of original content. Trying to sell something that has been in the public domain for some length of time is not only a deception but also corruption. As someone else pointed out, deleting the comments appears as strong admission of guilt. Otherwise it is too difficult to make judgment on being unaware of the code being around for any length of time. One further comment. It appears you recognized the error of passing judgment on others being in an information bubble. As you admit later, we all are. There is certainly no lack of information all around us today. Without some regulation it would most certainly be overload. We all need great discernment to sort truth out of everything that comes at us and that we discover. If such discernment is to be real it must refrain from being arbitrary. Based on absolute truth, the arbitrary has no standing. You have the right and responsibility to point out error based on what is true. Assigning it as judgment on others is a slippery place and in many places something that is reserved for God alone. As for feeling ridiculed, I think you know of someone who suffered more. So thanks for making an attempt. Live in His blessing.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
My first reply attempt got censored. Admittedly it got lengthy. It was called spam. In much shorter comment, I wanted to point out that Jesus was unashamed to point out the corruption of the Pharisees. May be worth pondering.
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My first reply attempt got censored. Admittedly it got lengthy. It was called spam. In much shorter comment, I wanted to point out that Jesus was unashamed to point out the corruption of the Pharisees. May be worth pondering.
You might want to be careful: not everybody here shares your religion and in accordance with the message at the top of the page it could be counted as trolling - which will get you kicked off the site. It doesn't take a lot to annoy some people, and religion tends to be a big trigger point, particularly when it's present in all your contributions so far ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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You might want to be careful: not everybody here shares your religion and in accordance with the message at the top of the page it could be counted as trolling - which will get you kicked off the site. It doesn't take a lot to annoy some people, and religion tends to be a big trigger point, particularly when it's present in all your contributions so far ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OG, Thank you for the courtesy of providing a response for why my post was being considered as spam. Your comments to the OP's question had good considerations. My post was in response to the Christian world view that the original poster expressed in his comments. This view, which was the basis for the conundrum of how to handle a moral issue was expressed in the original poster's second post. His second post followed your response to his first. For reference, the OP had difficulty with someone else selling code that was already public domain, the moral issue. Additionally, there was another poster who identified themself as an ashiest. That person had some good points to make despite what I think of their world view. Again, thanks for the follow up.
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OG, Thank you for the courtesy of providing a response for why my post was being considered as spam. Your comments to the OP's question had good considerations. My post was in response to the Christian world view that the original poster expressed in his comments. This view, which was the basis for the conundrum of how to handle a moral issue was expressed in the original poster's second post. His second post followed your response to his first. For reference, the OP had difficulty with someone else selling code that was already public domain, the moral issue. Additionally, there was another poster who identified themself as an ashiest. That person had some good points to make despite what I think of their world view. Again, thanks for the follow up.
The OP didn't mention any religious worldview: morality is not dependant on any degree belief in any religion! :laugh: And trust me, not all christians have any discernible moral fibre whatsoever - the ongoing fun-and-games with the Catholic church and child abuse indicates that. But that is a discussion for a different site ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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The OP didn't mention any religious worldview: morality is not dependant on any degree belief in any religion! :laugh: And trust me, not all christians have any discernible moral fibre whatsoever - the ongoing fun-and-games with the Catholic church and child abuse indicates that. But that is a discussion for a different site ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff, As you have noted, there are bad players within what can be considered the Christian realm. However, a bunch of bad actors fails to taint the whole crowd. We will find this true in almost every institution. That said, I am assuming that continuing the discussion on this part of the forum is acceptable. I say that because I have a question. If morality is not dependent in religious belief, in your understanding, from where do standards for morality originate? Ray
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OriginalGriff, As you have noted, there are bad players within what can be considered the Christian realm. However, a bunch of bad actors fails to taint the whole crowd. We will find this true in almost every institution. That said, I am assuming that continuing the discussion on this part of the forum is acceptable. I say that because I have a question. If morality is not dependent in religious belief, in your understanding, from where do standards for morality originate? Ray
This is starting to edge towards the kind of discussion that isn't allowed here as there are "better sites" to cover it, so I'll stop it there.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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This is starting to edge towards the kind of discussion that isn't allowed here as there are "better sites" to cover it, so I'll stop it there.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Fair enough. I was expecting as much
