Would you work at Twitter now?
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By "abusing", do you mean making them work more hours? Do you mean stopping the 'fact checks'?
I mean the "make this (crazy) deadline or you're all fired" toxic workplace environment. I honestly don't care about their "fact checks", one way or another because anyone stupid enough to do their "research" on facebook, twitter and youtube deserves what they get.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Yeah, that's not what I'm hearing. Twitter Managers Told Staff to Work 12-Hour Shifts, 7 Days a Week: CNBC[^]
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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That's just people projecting because they are in a panic that their woke paradise might be brought back to reality.
Are you saying businessinsider is fabricating the story? because they say they've got their hands on internal emails to that effect.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Are you saying businessinsider is fabricating the story? because they say they've got their hands on internal emails to that effect.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I'm not really saying anything, I don't have any facts. But IMHO, I don't think that is coming from Elon. That's probably management freaking out and trying to be proactive. I once had a VP ask way so and so wasn't at their desk. This resulted in managers demanding that no one leave their desks for any reason. If you had to talk to someone 2 desks over, you had to call them. We had people written up for going to the bathroom. None of this was directed by the VP, they just asked an innocent question. So I would reserve judgement until things settle down, management begins to breath again, and Elon has more than a couple days on the job.
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I would in a heart beat. This is why. You don't get to be the richest person in the world without doing things right. Musk is a workhorse. He worked over a 100 hrs a week to get Tesla off the ground. Everybody doubted him. If you look at the great entrepreneurs in History, they persevered. Edison failed 3000 times before he got the light bulb right. Working for people like this is the best education. I learned so much about business from working at Walmart - the #1 retailer, far more than any teacher who has only read in books and not "done" what they teach. There is so much to grow as a human being by persevering through the tough parts. you learn to handle emotions in a much better way. Those that can - do. Those that can't - complain and switch jobs.
You are right, Musk is a workhorse and his success is astonishing. And if you choose to, you can work as hard as he does. But here is the problem... If you put in the time and somehow manage to deliver that widget for him by the deadline, you will get a pat on the back (not from Elon, your manager maybe) and a gift card. And then you get a new unrealistic deadline. Then, Musk's net worth balloons by a billion dollars. No matter how hard you work, how much you sacrifice, how much profit you create for the company, you will never be as successful as Elon Musk as long as you are working for Elon Musk. "I'm doing it for the opportunity to be promoted," you say. Granted, but we're never going to get there. Not in that meat-grinder kind of environment. The narcissists will get promoted over you. The sociopaths and psychopaths will end up as the directors and VP's. But not us. We're the horses doing all the work, kind of like George Orwell's Animal Farm. Been there, done that. It was a solid six months before I had returned to something vaguely resembling sanity. It took me that long to be able to look back and understand how much I had been caught up in that hunger games mentality. I am grateful to say that I currently work for a man that appreciates the work his employees do and we are rewarded accordingly. And we aren't working crazy hours with boneheaded deadlines. I think I'll stay here.
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I'm not really saying anything, I don't have any facts. But IMHO, I don't think that is coming from Elon. That's probably management freaking out and trying to be proactive. I once had a VP ask way so and so wasn't at their desk. This resulted in managers demanding that no one leave their desks for any reason. If you had to talk to someone 2 desks over, you had to call them. We had people written up for going to the bathroom. None of this was directed by the VP, they just asked an innocent question. So I would reserve judgement until things settle down, management begins to breath again, and Elon has more than a couple days on the job.
Well, given Musk's public statements on the issue about firing most of his employees and the like, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. But even if I was, I won't put up with being treated that way in a workplace. By anyone. I know I'm not alone in that, which is why I suspect Twitter is bleeding top shelf talent right now. If I was a recruiter I'd have been outside their HQ weeks ago.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
No. I don't do twitter and it's unlikely they'd be making products that require embedded code. I don't write Windows/Linux code (except for scripts, mostly to support my embedded coding). I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fit in there very well anyways since I'm the kind of guy that would tell a woman that "Yes, that dress makes you look fat" when she asks.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
i assume you talk about the programmers at twitter "My guess is his top talent has already fled" what exactly do you mean when you say top talent from the pool of twitter programmers? Jonathan Blow on Software Quality at the CSUA GM2 at the beginning of 2016: twitter had close to 4000 employees, space_x had 450 and they build and lunch rockets into space ps - i'm not saying that i'm better than the twitter programmers, but i'm definitely not in the space_x league
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Well, given Musk's public statements on the issue about firing most of his employees and the like, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. But even if I was, I won't put up with being treated that way in a workplace. By anyone. I know I'm not alone in that, which is why I suspect Twitter is bleeding top shelf talent right now. If I was a recruiter I'd have been outside their HQ weeks ago.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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i assume you talk about the programmers at twitter "My guess is his top talent has already fled" what exactly do you mean when you say top talent from the pool of twitter programmers? Jonathan Blow on Software Quality at the CSUA GM2 at the beginning of 2016: twitter had close to 4000 employees, space_x had 450 and they build and lunch rockets into space ps - i'm not saying that i'm better than the twitter programmers, but i'm definitely not in the space_x league
I mean the people that can deliver projects on time and on budget, who write great code. They exist in small groups at most any major institution, even Twitter. Talent is as diversified as it is rare. It's kind of weird to compare employee count of two wildly different organizations that do completely different things. I don't really get that.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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It does, and has certainly favored him, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the betterment of the people under him. :)
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Hmm. Let's t'ink 'bout dis t'ing. Previous massahs sold their loyal, trusting, staff to the ... Balrog? Check. Previous massahs got big fat golden parachutes and billions in stock for themselves and didn't give a hoot-n-holler about what happens to their loyal, trusting, diverse staff that worked so hard? Check. Loyal, trusting, staff are whining and pining for the good old days slaving under dem dere massahs dat sold dem down de river? Check. Balrog is clueless about the most basic aspects of running this kind of business? Check. Oh, dear lordy lordy. Balrog is beyond clueless. Balrog actually thinks subscription model is viable. So, that's a check, check, check, check, check, checkity, check-check! Oh, snortlefeathers! You've talked me into it! Just like dem good ol' dayz down south. Kin ah sell you me liver? Just one, and it's healthy.
Balrogs need helpers.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Honestly, if I were fresh out of school, or at least 20 yrs younger. Why Not? I College Friend has a son who works for Tesla loading the AI Data. He started fresh out of college, loves it. An even closer friend has a son working for SpaceX (This kid was Fully Java Certified at 11, full-ride scholarships to about every school he applied to). Both love their jobs and feel they have learned half a careers worth. If you are a Dilbert Fan... You won't find a Wally floating around. The team itself would likely kill them, and cook them on a spit out back! So, it's not for the feint of heart.
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Honestly, if I were fresh out of school, or at least 20 yrs younger. Why Not? I College Friend has a son who works for Tesla loading the AI Data. He started fresh out of college, loves it. An even closer friend has a son working for SpaceX (This kid was Fully Java Certified at 11, full-ride scholarships to about every school he applied to). Both love their jobs and feel they have learned half a careers worth. If you are a Dilbert Fan... You won't find a Wally floating around. The team itself would likely kill them, and cook them on a spit out back! So, it's not for the feint of heart.
Kirk 10389821 wrote:
Honestly, if I were fresh out of school, or at least 20 yrs younger. Why Not?
I guess because I had/have better options than working for people that issue drop dead date firing ultimatums for entire teams and otherwise abusing their employees? Even Microsoft didn't do that to me. You do you.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Absolutely! Musk is legitimately sorting out the real workers from the deadwood, and this is one way to do it. I was treated far worse by major aerospace companies back in the day, with management demanding that I sacrifice my life to fix the out of control projects they mismanaged.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Of course I would: There are two types of people in the world*: bums and whores. A bum lives in the present and doesn't care about the future; a whore sacrifices the present for the promise of a future. All programmers are whores. * Elon is a third type: a madam. A madam is a bum with money...
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I mean the people that can deliver projects on time and on budget, who write great code. They exist in small groups at most any major institution, even Twitter. Talent is as diversified as it is rare. It's kind of weird to compare employee count of two wildly different organizations that do completely different things. I don't really get that.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
ok, it is now clear what are you saying by top talent. to me, working as a programmer in a company like twitter would be considered only if i want to work as less as i can without getting expelled. sort of like, be invisible in the huge number of developers that have a job of taking care of the functionality of twitter. because i'm sure, from what i see, that twitter can be maintained by 8 competent and 2 high class developers. and those competent developers are in no way skilled like the guys who made Doom or Quake or who won the 4th place at the Assembly Demo Competition or the Apollo 11 team working under Margaret Hamilton. at any point past 2014 twitter had hundreds of developers. don't underestimate "working undetected", because sometimes that is exactly what i want. sometimes, i need a 2-3 years break to study: lisp, tcl, perl, forth, assembly for vga under ms-dos or simply enjoy reading novels while i am at work. because, you cannot get a job that will improve your lisp/forth skills. you can only get a job that can improve your: JavaScript, C#, Java, C++, php... skills
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality. I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere? By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout. Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things. My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Not now, not before, not ever. Why do you ask - did something change recently that I'm not aware of? No, seriously, it has nothing to do with who runs it. Twitter is just one of those companies that can only accelerate civilization's downfall. Compare the positive that has come out of it (I can't think of a single significant example), vs all the witch-hunt taking place - all the snowflakes and butt-hurt people digging up ancient tweets just to embarrass people and contribute to the cancel culture. Musk would only do us all a favor by taking the bullet and shutting it down. Then go after Facebook next.