We have a contender to exceed Microsoft's stupidity... and it is....
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
All you need to know about HPs crapware stack is that at one point it was bigger than the OS it infected. Rumor is that they were really :elephant:ing mad when microsoft's Vista team outbloated them in '06.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
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I work for the US Air Force and we've had HP printers as long as I can remember (20+ years). It'll be interesting to see what the govt ends up doing because we have a LOT of printers that are on classified networks that obviously have no Internet access. It always amazes me when companies make decisions like this that they just have to know is going to alienate them from many of their customers. Baffling...
You can buy a non-internet printer from HP. It's just twice the price clearly pointing at small office. The internet required ones tend to be the cheap versions.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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That's not new. Smart doorlocks failing because of an internet outage ain't even news anymore. The HP one is harmless by comparison.
Failed as in would not unlock? I know it's almost semantics, but the printer is not failing. It disables itself until it can phone home.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Failed as in would not unlock? I know it's almost semantics, but the printer is not failing. It disables itself until it can phone home.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I consider a lock failed if it doesn't let me bloody in (and apparently, safety overrides weren't in place) and yup, that's what happened.
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I just scanned a document without creating an account or logging in, using HP Smart, to verify this. And as I expected, you don't have to create an account, you can cancel out of it and still scan documents. It just looks like you need to create an account, but you technically don't have to agree with that. After that, it doesn't prompt you again, as far as I can tell.
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All you need to know about HPs crapware stack is that at one point it was bigger than the OS it infected. Rumor is that they were really :elephant:ing mad when microsoft's Vista team outbloated them in '06.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
Dan Neely wrote:
All you need to know about HPs crapware stack is that at one point it was bigger than the OS it infected.
Yep. I "experienced" that personally. Well... semi-personally. Years ago, my sister-in-law (against my advice) bought a cheap HP laptop on black Friday. Out of the box she complained about how slow it was. Begged me to "fix" it on Christmas day while at the in-laws. It took me several hours but the result was a decently fast, lean machine. A week later she called HP support because she couldn't get a USB printer to work. They had her insert the system DVD to run some app and it re-installed the whole bloody mess (and still didn't fix the printer issue). This time I had her bring me the laptop, printer and DVD. In my leisure, over the next week I de-crapified the laptop (again), got the printer to work and threw away the DVD :laugh:. It ran fine for about 4 years before one of her kids poured Kool-Aid into it and let the smoke out. I considered that a merciful death.
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
You have to take an historical average. In the ‘70s, I bought an HP 10c calculator. I was so enamored of RPN that I bought another so I could carry one in my briefcase (we used those, too). I do not remember if I ever had to even change the batteries except once when I was fiddling with it and dropped one of the buttons under my desk. I still use both of them, even for *date* calculations. And then there is the CP2025 laser I bought in 2008, which has never even jammed. HP is just making up for accidentally making unprofitably reliable things for years.
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I only use Cannon printers and with one exception, in all these years have had no issues with them. They just work and last... Since Carly Fiorina destroyed HP, I never considered their equipment...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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I rented a house over Thanksgiving and cooked with gas for the first time. Actually hated it. While it responds quickly to temperature changes, it was always slow/questionable to light with the electric clicker and never really seemed to get as hot as my electric at home. I'll keep my electric stove. I also have an external vent over my stove that I wouldn't go without!
Hogan
When shopping for a gas stove, I too noticed that a great deal of them are significantly lower power that I am used to from electric stoves, which are typically 2000W, the smaller ones 1500W. Typical gas stoves are 1200-1500W, some down to 1000W. So I specifically looked for a high-powered one. The one I settled on has burners of 1900W and 2800W. You are right: Most gas burners are lower effect than modern electrical cooking tops. I don't know why, except that in my childhood, typical electrical stoves were 1000 / 1200 / 1500W. Around here 2000W became the standard maybe 45-50 years ago. Maybe the typical gas stove customer never experienced the convenience of having high power available when you need it.
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At one house I had, with it's shiny new appliances, I looked into getting a gas range instead of the white electric glass top that came with the house and promptly turned brown. I was told that in case of electric power loss, I would need to have the gas stove plugged into a UPS in order to light it, and that matches wouldn't work becuase of the 'patented sealed-burner design' that has finally made gas stoves 'safe'. I kept the electric glass-top. I did have a prolonged power-outage (7-days) in the middle of a snowstorm. An underground transformer blew, and I ate out a lot, did some homework by candle and PDA (I was working on my Master's), got extensions on some assignments, and a letter in the mail from the electric company espousing their efficiency to get everyone's power back on in 2 days. Standing their without power reading how they had the power back on really was ... irritating, and I sent them a letter in response to their nonsense, and another letter to the regulating agency. The electric company sent me a greenbar printout to 'prove' they had everyone's power back on in only 2 days, and chastised me for contacting the regulating agency.
Find a different gas stove that doesn't have that patented hoohaa. We intentionally have our gas stove's breaker switched off because we have always had issues with the electric igniters and have a little plasma lighter sitting next to the stove top. I don't have kids and the cats don't jump on the stove top, so I'm not worried about the gas getting turned on accidentally.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss. Lazarus Long, "Time Enough For Love" by Robert A. Heinlein
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At one house I had, with it's shiny new appliances, I looked into getting a gas range instead of the white electric glass top that came with the house and promptly turned brown. I was told that in case of electric power loss, I would need to have the gas stove plugged into a UPS in order to light it, and that matches wouldn't work becuase of the 'patented sealed-burner design' that has finally made gas stoves 'safe'. I kept the electric glass-top. I did have a prolonged power-outage (7-days) in the middle of a snowstorm. An underground transformer blew, and I ate out a lot, did some homework by candle and PDA (I was working on my Master's), got extensions on some assignments, and a letter in the mail from the electric company espousing their efficiency to get everyone's power back on in 2 days. Standing their without power reading how they had the power back on really was ... irritating, and I sent them a letter in response to their nonsense, and another letter to the regulating agency. The electric company sent me a greenbar printout to 'prove' they had everyone's power back on in only 2 days, and chastised me for contacting the regulating agency.
Since we got these 'smart meters' a few years ago, we can easily retrieve over internet the hour-by-hour electricity consumption, to prove the length of a blackout (although only with hour resolution). If your bill says that you have had zero consumption for seven days, and the power company tries to say: That is only you turning everything off for the last five of those seven days - then no one will believe them. Here in Norway, you could demand an economic compensation for being without electricity for a week, and if customers insist on compensation for seven days, the power company for two, the quarrel could end up in court. It never would go so far, though. The smart meters would provide proof, and there are web pages presenting maps with all blackouts drawn in, along with estimates for how long it will take to fix the problem. If the map for five days says 'No problems in this area!' but none of the customers have any power available, then the power company won't get much peace through those five days!
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Oh man, I get you. Here in America, most of the houses could have been designed by 5 yos. Whatever you can slap together in 30 days, and if we slide enough cash to the "inspectors"... My biggest beef is that there are no real range vents. If the vent over the stove sends the air back into the kitchen, it's a joke. So, when we decided to redo the kitchen, there were two non-negotiables. I wanted a gas range and I wanted a REAL range vent. I paid for both. And we are foodies, sorry, electric/induction is cute but it just does not cut it. But about your stove. Why the heck would a gas stove need to have electricity (looking at mine now)? Sure it has electronic ignition, but :) wait one...... well crap, I need to go turn off a breaker - I'll have to test it later. The only reason we have electronic ignition is to avoid pilot lights. But seriously, friends shaming you for cooking on gas? Stop feeding them. ;P tell them the induction part is broken.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
But seriously, friends shaming you for cooking on gas? Stop feeding them. ;-P tell them the induction part is broken.
Norway is a country where you are expected to be "modern" in all aspects. Throw out all the old shit. You are shamed even for cooking on a ceramic top, "Why haven't you replaced that with an induction top?". You are shamed for using a CD or DVD player; today everything is available at streaming services. No, I say: Look at this movie, this, this and this. Or off-mainstream music. Besides, I've got my music when the network goes down (similar to having a cooking stove during a blackout). You are shamed for using a compact camera, SLR or traditional video camera, rather than your mobile. You are shamed for sending an email rather than texting. For buying a diesel car rather than an electric one. And so on. If you do things the old ways, because you know them to work well, you are ignorant. Or maybe plainly poor, you cannot afford to buy what you really want. Of course everyone really want induction stoves and streaming and all your life in your smartphone and electric cars. Why wouldn't they, when it is soooo much better?
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I have owned several HP printers over a lifetime. One I accidentally murdered while trying to clean. That was my fault. A second, perfectly functional HP all-in-one had to be discarded because HP decided to stop producing ink cartridges. You couldn't even refill them because they had a microchip that said how old they were. Another seized up and it cost the same amount to have repaired as to buy another one. HPs installation software has always been a nightmare. I wonder how my grandma with no MS CS and no 40 years of experience could possibly install one. Ink cartridges way overpriced, and they know it, because they attempt to defeat refilling. I bought a brother all-in-one b&w laser printer for less than the cost of either of the last two HP printers I've owned. Easy install, zero hassle, no problems in over a year. And (I hear) the toner cartridges are refillable. I wouldn't know for sure though, I'm still on my first one. Bought an HP computer once. Obsolete the day I purchased it, wouldn't run Win8. I have finally learned my lesson. The only reason I gave HP so many chances is because their test equipment was well regarded (I used to work for a competitor).
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
HP, The company I learned to admire back in the 80's, capable of designing and producing amazing test equipment and other outstanding electronic products, turned into a cheap consumer manufacturer after 2000, when they split the business, spinning of Agilent Technologies, lately revranded Keysight. A truly sad ending for what once was a company to look up to. Speaking about the decadence of the west... alfyvr
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Since we got these 'smart meters' a few years ago, we can easily retrieve over internet the hour-by-hour electricity consumption, to prove the length of a blackout (although only with hour resolution). If your bill says that you have had zero consumption for seven days, and the power company tries to say: That is only you turning everything off for the last five of those seven days - then no one will believe them. Here in Norway, you could demand an economic compensation for being without electricity for a week, and if customers insist on compensation for seven days, the power company for two, the quarrel could end up in court. It never would go so far, though. The smart meters would provide proof, and there are web pages presenting maps with all blackouts drawn in, along with estimates for how long it will take to fix the problem. If the map for five days says 'No problems in this area!' but none of the customers have any power available, then the power company won't get much peace through those five days!
Interesting. But my incident was pre-2006, and I didn't have a SmartMeter there at that time. I had not actively shopped for gas stoves up until then, and instead always accepted what came with the house. And at that time it wasn't possible to purchase a gas range that didn't have the sealed-burner design. I understand about cats and children....never the issue for me, though. My previous home was a house built in 1925, and the gas stove that came with it was probably of similar vintage, with standing-pilots on the burners that didn't want to say lit, and an oven that didn't have a pilot. I generally had to use matches to light a burner or the oven with every usage. But I never endured a lengthy power outage there.
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
The last couple of HP printer's I've purchased function adequately without installing the HP software crap, so I haven't.
That worked for me for a while but then it realised and installed PrintSmart (or whatever it is called) itself. Then everything stopped working, had to uninstall and re-install. It then failed to install wirelessly so I ran a cable to it and now the PC sees the printer twice and I can print either way, even though it claimed not to have installed the wireless version. Oh, and the printing software occasionally tries to re-install itself and for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, I have one desktop icon for scanning mode and another one that accesses printing and scanning .... And when it does re-install itself it changes some print settings that disable double sided printing and I have to go deep into Windows settings to change something to re-enable it. But apart from that, it's great.
My last two HP printers weren't actual purchases. I inherited them from family members who couldn't make them work consistently. Sadly, I'm too cheap to just throw them (and the ink) out. The next time I actually buy a printer it will not be from HP, largely because of the software crap you describe.
Software Zen:
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:) herself does not like Epson (for some reason, no idea). I miss my basic Samsung. I was broken hearted to learn HP had bought them. Never again. I so rarely print, it might make a case just to send print jobs to the UPS store (2 miles down the street).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I used to have several old and semi reliable printers, all of which decided to fail at the same time. I discovered that I could buy an ex-lease Fuji for a reasonable price. Prints all sizes, double sided, scans, emails, colour, you name it. Great decision.
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HP. Yes Hewlett Packard who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection. Imagine - you need to scan a document. The laptop is 10' away from the printer. I have to login to an account to be able to scan. wtf? And their s/w is absolutely terrible. They call it HP Smart but it's really HP dumb, clearly designed by a bunch of monkeys beating on keyboards with bananas. Apologies to monkeys everywhere. I should not drag them down to HP's level.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I think you are underestimating their position as a contender; they are clearly the winner of the stupidity award. First, I have a problem with the "print from anywhere" sales pitch. Well, maybe it's a great idea, but they should also provide me with a robot that can go to the printer, grab the paper, stick it in an envelope and FedEx it to me. I'd have to wait a day for it, but I suppose they could fax it to me, which would mean I have another printer sitting next to me that I could have printed directly to in the first place. Seems to me the purpose of a printer is to print a hard copy you need to have access to or do something else with. If it's just a 'record' copy, save it and print it when you're next to the printer. I needed an all-in-one for a second location that I'm at only about 1/3 of the time. It isn't going to print maybe 100 pages a year. I bought the HP because it was hard to justify spending more money for something where cartridges will dry out before they run out of ink. My primary Canon Image Class puppy was a floor model from a big-box and it still has the starter toner in it two years later. If my wife didn't print recipes on it, it would probably never need new cartridges :laugh: The loss for them is my $129 junk purchase is going to cost them in future hardware recommendations; not going to happen.
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:) herself does not like Epson (for some reason, no idea). I miss my basic Samsung. I was broken hearted to learn HP had bought them. Never again. I so rarely print, it might make a case just to send print jobs to the UPS store (2 miles down the street).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.