Engineer
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I was asked, a few years ago, to do a little job not connected to what I was meant to be doing. Anyway, this little prog would take some info from a draughtsman then work out what components would be required, draw plans for the builders to follow and generate an order form for stores. I produced EXACTLY what was requested. The "boss"* then passed it to a different "project manager" who changed the spec. I again delivered exactly what was asked for. * a man with no perceivable skill in any field other than his wise choice of having the MD as a father. Repeat the above a few times. Every "project manager" would have different features they wanted (and didn't want) to see. By this stage, whenever some feature was no longer required, I kept it in there out of sight, knowing the next person would ask for it back. This went on for about a month with all requests for a final, agreed, WRITTEN DOWN spec completely ignored and culminated with the "boss" describing it as "crap software."
I work in automotive so requirements are set in stone, the issue is that it's a highly tiered sector with many consultants, so the person who manages the actual development team usually knows little to nothing about automotive, development and often who and where they are.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Noun (en-jun-neer) Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge. See also Wizard, Magician
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - An updated version available! JaxCoder.com
Mike Hankey wrote:
See also Wizard, Magician
Funny you should mention that.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth. To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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I disagree. You ignore the part that theoreticians have to play in fields such as physics.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I disagree. You ignore the part that theoreticians have to play in fields such as physics.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I was asked, a few years ago, to do a little job not connected to what I was meant to be doing. Anyway, this little prog would take some info from a draughtsman then work out what components would be required, draw plans for the builders to follow and generate an order form for stores. I produced EXACTLY what was requested. The "boss"* then passed it to a different "project manager" who changed the spec. I again delivered exactly what was asked for. * a man with no perceivable skill in any field other than his wise choice of having the MD as a father. Repeat the above a few times. Every "project manager" would have different features they wanted (and didn't want) to see. By this stage, whenever some feature was no longer required, I kept it in there out of sight, knowing the next person would ask for it back. This went on for about a month with all requests for a final, agreed, WRITTEN DOWN spec completely ignored and culminated with the "boss" describing it as "crap software."
Tempus fugit, elit consequat faucibus. It happens, get over it. I assume you were paid for all this work so what's the beef? Get a job as a project manager and see how well you do at getting the requirements for a non-trivial project right first time, with nothing changing before it's delivered, tested and complete. Good luck with that.
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Scrabbling? Nice image. Scientists provide the knowledge and understanding that enables engineers to create practical things. Without scientists engineers wouldn't exist.
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#Engineer's Lament
I'm not allowed to run the train The whistle I can't blow… I'm not allowed to say how far The railroad cars can go. I'm not allowed to shoot off steam, Nor even clang the bell… But let the damn train jump the track And see who catches Hell!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Train Drivers aren't Engineers. They're train drivers. Motor mechanics aren't engineers either. Nor are washing machine repairmen. Nor brick-layers or carpenters. Nor are code-jockeys. All skilled jobs, but not Engineers.
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Because an artist's scribbles have no requirement other than satisfying the "artistic sense" (whatever that is) of the artist. A scientific theory, OTOH, must satisfy constraints such as non-contradiction of known facts, self-consistency, and quite a few others.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Train Drivers aren't Engineers. They're train drivers. Motor mechanics aren't engineers either. Nor are washing machine repairmen. Nor brick-layers or carpenters. Nor are code-jockeys. All skilled jobs, but not Engineers.
haughtonomous wrote:
Train Drivers aren't Engineers. They're train drivers.
The name for a train driver in the 19th century was "engineer", because he controlled the engine. The meaning of the word has drifted a bit since that ditty was written.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Because an artist's scribbles have no requirement other than satisfying the "artistic sense" (whatever that is) of the artist. A scientific theory, OTOH, must satisfy constraints such as non-contradiction of known facts, self-consistency, and quite a few others.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I was asked, a few years ago, to do a little job not connected to what I was meant to be doing. Anyway, this little prog would take some info from a draughtsman then work out what components would be required, draw plans for the builders to follow and generate an order form for stores. I produced EXACTLY what was requested. The "boss"* then passed it to a different "project manager" who changed the spec. I again delivered exactly what was asked for. * a man with no perceivable skill in any field other than his wise choice of having the MD as a father. Repeat the above a few times. Every "project manager" would have different features they wanted (and didn't want) to see. By this stage, whenever some feature was no longer required, I kept it in there out of sight, knowing the next person would ask for it back. This went on for about a month with all requests for a final, agreed, WRITTEN DOWN spec completely ignored and culminated with the "boss" describing it as "crap software."
Similar thing happened to me. I was working a contract, converting a traditional windows forms app to a cloud app. This was pre Wasm, so we basically had to write a "System.Drawing" implementation in JavaScript (Well Typescript actually, but you get the point) We didn't quite get a "System.Drawing" implementation, but we did put together (With the help of MXGraph) a reasonably good canvas system, that allowed us to produce labels and barcodes and design things graphically the way the desktop app used too. There was a part of the desktop app that stored per user settings in an access database, and the CEO made it quite clear that he DID NOT want the web app using the old access way of doing things, he had quite reasonably read up on things a bit and listened to what the dev team was telling him, and agreed with a centralised database as is normal for a web app. The app then got handed over to the PM who was originally responsible for the desktop app, and who knew how the desktop app worked intricately, and who was very familiar with the desktop app code, and it was at this point the fun started. It didn't matter how much we told him, that the web is NOT like the local file system, you can't just have the browser open files like Access DB's, it didn't matter how much we told him that the browser could not just pick and choose how and where to save/store things without user intervention, he was having none of it. The entire spec was redrawn so we where basically trying to 100% duplicate in the browser, the way the desktop app was written, and when he was told things like "browser security" & "sandboxing" would physically prevent us from doing stuff in a particular way, his answer was always "Nonsense, it's software, anything is possible if you just take the time to work out how" Just so he could get stuff saved automatically by the app, without human intervention, on the local file system, he had us write a local service, that was installed as part of the set-up on the users machines. This service was then looked for on "localhost" by the javascript code running in the browser when ever the user logged into the web app, the javascript then used the service to do all sorts of underhand things, such as force saving of files to a USB key chain without the user of the app knowing, just so he could maintain his dominance in understanding the code from the old app. Eventually I left before the project was finished, and last I spoke to any of my own collegues, the app had been hacked several times,
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It sums up my experience so far. The best is always when the customers give strict but poorly worded requirements and then isn't capable of explaining what they actually want.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
den2k88 wrote:
customers give strict but poorly worded requirements and then
... won't let you talk to the actual user. I've had numerous cases where I was explicitly disallowed from talking to the people requesting a feature and it was clear the business contact was an MBA drone.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
... who stole it from Ceasar's legions, who stole it from the Etruscans, who stole it from the Greeks, who stole it from the Trojans...
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Me Ogg. Me said first.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
den2k88 wrote:
customers give strict but poorly worded requirements and then
... won't let you talk to the actual user. I've had numerous cases where I was explicitly disallowed from talking to the people requesting a feature and it was clear the business contact was an MBA drone.
Software Zen:
delete this;This. The times I could cut the middleman has been the best - usually happens in the vicinity of holidays, since managers go in vacation and leave the actual engineers alone to hold the fort.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Heard during my college day: Engineer is one who rides an engine.
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All those "mad scientists" in the movies were actually mad engineers. They weren't doing experiments - they were designing and building things to do whatever their mad plot was. Best switcheroo by engineering PR ever.
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Noun (en-jun-neer) Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge. See also Wizard, Magician
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - An updated version available! JaxCoder.com
I've always had the experience we Engineers are the closest in the universe to having the role of god. Everything in a project depends on our will to make it exist or not. It's not too much effort to tell the boss or client their ideas are downright stupid (maybe worded as "impractical", "Pie in the sky", "non sequitor", etc.,etc.) and they need to reevaluate their lives (maybe worded as "must reprioritize", "Look at the problem from a different angle", etc.). Still, if we are called upon to fix the universe, it's not impossible, it just takes a little longer.
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Because an artist's scribbles have no requirement other than satisfying the "artistic sense" (whatever that is) of the artist. A scientific theory, OTOH, must satisfy constraints such as non-contradiction of known facts, self-consistency, and quite a few others.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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All those "mad scientists" in the movies were actually mad engineers. They weren't doing experiments - they were designing and building things to do whatever their mad plot was. Best switcheroo by engineering PR ever.
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Noun (en-jun-neer) Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge. See also Wizard, Magician
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - An updated version available! JaxCoder.com
Isn't part of being an engineer being able to get all the necessary information from people who probably don't even know they have it? That would suggest a first question of "who will be building this, can I talk to them now?". AS a professional structural engineer I always found the most important period was at the beginning when I worked out what it was I should be designing.
