It's not about the money...
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After less than a week on W11 I got so frustrated with the taskbar, that I actually paid for a software to resolve the issue... It is not about the money ($5), but the realization that MS actually doesn't give a shit about end user...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
solve the problem using windows 10 ;) Those that put *class* in JavaScript are the same that put *var* in C#
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I agree. I'm trying to set up my new laptop - windows 11 professional. Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar. This is like a car maker putting the steering wheel on the floor and the brake pedals on the dash. It just makes no sense unless they are diabolically evil. Wait, I may have just hit on something... For the record, what did you buy?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
I agree. I'm trying to set up my new laptop - windows 11 professional. Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar. This is like a car maker putting the steering wheel on the floor and the brake pedals on the dash. It just makes no sense unless they are diabolically evil. Wait, I may have just hit on something...
They're not evil, just :elephant:ing stupid. Because the sub-team guilty of the last edition of Flush Money Down the Toilet Trying to Create a Two Screen Tablet That Will Inevitably Be Cancelled Before Release as a Stupid Idea created a new taskbar optimized for a ~5-8" screen. Desperate to salvage something from the cash bon-fire some MS PM (Massively Stupid Professional Moron) decided to upgrade Windows 11 by salvaging the new taskbar from the last FMDTTCTSTTWICBRSI debacle, because it was a reasonable fit for his use case (make it look more like dock on the mac he wished he could use instead) while ignoring all the howls of protest from cow-orkers who tried pointing out that not everyone used Windows that way.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
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After less than a week on W11 I got so frustrated with the taskbar, that I actually paid for a software to resolve the issue... It is not about the money ($5), but the realization that MS actually doesn't give a shit about end user...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
I have been sticking with Windows 10 and Stardock's menu system. Why change when there is no need to do so? Microsoft is notorious for changing things just for the sake of changing them. And they also "throw out the baby with the bathwater for some reason..." After so many years working with the Microsoft development environments I have decided to stop upgrading my tools based on their say so. As a result, I won't use their Core web development tools (ie. Blazor) because after working on a very large MVC project a number of years ago, I saw no reason to replace ASP.NET WebForms. Those who contend that the new environments are much more efficient may be correct for the internals aspects of them but from an implementation standpoint, these environments are simply far more complex and as a result, big time wasters for most professionals. Concentrating mostly on Desktop development in the past several years, I am sticking with WPF even though a host of other branches of XAML tools have cropped up. Given that most of them are merely forks of WPF, I decided to stay with the original. .NET Core? Meh! Microsoft took out more than they put in leaving it to third parties to rewrite what already existed in the original .NET Frameworks. One example of this was WCF, which was left out and as a result, a third-party team has just released their 1.0 version of CoreWCF. Before anyone starts yelling at me, please note that I am not saying that these new technologies are not better refined than what was found in the original .NET Frameworks. My contention is that why should we constantly upgrade from a mature platform that was very stable to one that is still being developed? In short, why bother? DO we really need to constantly rewrite our applications simply because Microsoft has this penchant for having the entire community go through massive trauma every time it decides to create a new product? To date, I have stuck with the .NET Framework 4.6. It is very stable and does what I need it to do. And it has all the development tools I could possibly need. True, the original frameworks will be going out of support but who cares? When was the last time anyone called Microsoft because they needed support for an internal issue with one of the versions of the .NET Framework. Microsoft did great work with this framework and should have simply left it alone and refined it. The idea that we need cross-platform development may be true for some developers but for the most part most professionals work in
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After less than a week on W11 I got so frustrated with the taskbar, that I actually paid for a software to resolve the issue... It is not about the money ($5), but the realization that MS actually doesn't give a shit about end user...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
Does Open Shell work on Win11? If so, it's free. I've been using it on Win10 since Win10 was released, as it provides a Win7 style Start menu.
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After less than a week on W11 I got so frustrated with the taskbar, that I actually paid for a software to resolve the issue... It is not about the money ($5), but the realization that MS actually doesn't give a shit about end user...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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I'm using ExplorerPatcher and 7 Taskbar Tweaker. I think MS is going to bring back the 'don't combine' feature soon.
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mmm.. what is the problem with the task bar exactly?
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
Functionality I always use that's was missing with the Win 11 default task bar: 1) Ability to add a toolbar (I always add a QuickLaunch toolbar) 2) Move the task bar to the left side of the screen 3) Set 'never combine' for active applications I just kept using Win 10 until I came across ExplorerPatcher which gives me all the taskbar features I use. I also use Open Shell to give me a start menu I like.
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Does Open Shell work on Win11? If so, it's free. I've been using it on Win10 since Win10 was released, as it provides a Win7 style Start menu.
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What do you think would happen if McDonalds redid the qp like ms did the taskbar?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
They did that, it was called the McDLT. It didn't go over well. I kind of liked them though.
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Thanks for the tip. I'm continuing to use Win10 for the foreseeable future. While my desktop (upgraded a year ago) will run Win11, my 7 yo laptop will not, so I'm holding off until I have to replace the laptop. I tried other Win10 menu replacements, but Classic Shell / Open Shell has been the best and problem free. FYI for other readers -- Classic Shell was available from 2009 to 2017, when the author quit supporting it. It was transitioned to Open Shell, which I'm currently using. I'm using the current release 4.4.170, although there is a 4.4.189 pre-release. @sasadler, is that the version you're recommending for Win11? Releases · Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu · GitHub[^] I'll sometimes use a pre-release on my laptop, but don't mess around with my desktop.
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I have been sticking with Windows 10 and Stardock's menu system. Why change when there is no need to do so? Microsoft is notorious for changing things just for the sake of changing them. And they also "throw out the baby with the bathwater for some reason..." After so many years working with the Microsoft development environments I have decided to stop upgrading my tools based on their say so. As a result, I won't use their Core web development tools (ie. Blazor) because after working on a very large MVC project a number of years ago, I saw no reason to replace ASP.NET WebForms. Those who contend that the new environments are much more efficient may be correct for the internals aspects of them but from an implementation standpoint, these environments are simply far more complex and as a result, big time wasters for most professionals. Concentrating mostly on Desktop development in the past several years, I am sticking with WPF even though a host of other branches of XAML tools have cropped up. Given that most of them are merely forks of WPF, I decided to stay with the original. .NET Core? Meh! Microsoft took out more than they put in leaving it to third parties to rewrite what already existed in the original .NET Frameworks. One example of this was WCF, which was left out and as a result, a third-party team has just released their 1.0 version of CoreWCF. Before anyone starts yelling at me, please note that I am not saying that these new technologies are not better refined than what was found in the original .NET Frameworks. My contention is that why should we constantly upgrade from a mature platform that was very stable to one that is still being developed? In short, why bother? DO we really need to constantly rewrite our applications simply because Microsoft has this penchant for having the entire community go through massive trauma every time it decides to create a new product? To date, I have stuck with the .NET Framework 4.6. It is very stable and does what I need it to do. And it has all the development tools I could possibly need. True, the original frameworks will be going out of support but who cares? When was the last time anyone called Microsoft because they needed support for an internal issue with one of the versions of the .NET Framework. Microsoft did great work with this framework and should have simply left it alone and refined it. The idea that we need cross-platform development may be true for some developers but for the most part most professionals work in
Steve Naidamast wrote:
Why change when there is no need to do so?
It is a work laptop, and I have no say about the OS... At home I'm using Fedora for more than a decade, of which at least 6 years I have no even VMs of Windows...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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Thanks for the tip. I'm continuing to use Win10 for the foreseeable future. While my desktop (upgraded a year ago) will run Win11, my 7 yo laptop will not, so I'm holding off until I have to replace the laptop. I tried other Win10 menu replacements, but Classic Shell / Open Shell has been the best and problem free. FYI for other readers -- Classic Shell was available from 2009 to 2017, when the author quit supporting it. It was transitioned to Open Shell, which I'm currently using. I'm using the current release 4.4.170, although there is a 4.4.189 pre-release. @sasadler, is that the version you're recommending for Win11? Releases · Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu · GitHub[^] I'll sometimes use a pre-release on my laptop, but don't mess around with my desktop.
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Steve Naidamast wrote:
Why change when there is no need to do so?
It is a work laptop, and I have no say about the OS... At home I'm using Fedora for more than a decade, of which at least 6 years I have no even VMs of Windows...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
When I worked on the mainframes back in the years when dinosaurs were still considered an option for pets, I did both batch and online development. Only once in 12 years in this part of the field did we have or even need an upgrade to the COBOL compiler. With Microsoft both the C# and VB.NET (no longer being evolved) languages had so many features added to them that the source code could look so arcane as to be unintelligible. This was one of the factors that destroyed the Nantucket Clipper Compiler, which was very popular in the 1980s and 1990s. Microsoft could land itself in the same situation the way things are going with them. As professionals, we don't need constant change. What we really require is stability...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Labes a not possible with W11 out-of-the-box I have at least 3 instances of VS open at every given time - I still see a single icon (with a very minor shadow-doubling)... Just crap...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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No text and always grouped... So to select one of the N opened Visual Studio instances is PITA...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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Functionality I always use that's was missing with the Win 11 default task bar: 1) Ability to add a toolbar (I always add a QuickLaunch toolbar) 2) Move the task bar to the left side of the screen 3) Set 'never combine' for active applications I just kept using Win 10 until I came across ExplorerPatcher which gives me all the taskbar features I use. I also use Open Shell to give me a start menu I like.
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I agree. I'm trying to set up my new laptop - windows 11 professional. Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar. This is like a car maker putting the steering wheel on the floor and the brake pedals on the dash. It just makes no sense unless they are diabolically evil. Wait, I may have just hit on something... For the record, what did you buy?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar
What exactly do you think is fundamentally different between 10 and 11? If there is no fundamental difference then how does Microsoft sell it? Because after all they are selling it to make money not to make your (or my) life better. So they change stuff and then claim the change is better.
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What do you think would happen if McDonalds redid the qp like ms did the taskbar?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
A lot of the USA McDonald's have redone the user interface "experience" with the inside Kiosks. Takes more time for the user but saves on a cashier or two. I haven't seen a big win yet for the customer doing it this way.
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charlieg wrote:
Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar
What exactly do you think is fundamentally different between 10 and 11? If there is no fundamental difference then how does Microsoft sell it? Because after all they are selling it to make money not to make your (or my) life better. So they change stuff and then claim the change is better.
Well, the task bar is the task bar. I have it configured to the right side of my screen. It's been for the past 5+ years. Why can't I do that on 11? It's not even an option. I can do left or center and I have to go drill down into personalizations. In Windows 10, I just drag it where I want it. So, in my mind, MS took away functionality for no apparent reason. It doesn't make anything better. As for MS wanting to make money - fine. ADD a real feature, or at least give users the ability to go back to their previous configuration. I find it dubious that changing the task bar helps them sell software. I think the other rant is more appropriate.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote:
I agree. I'm trying to set up my new laptop - windows 11 professional. Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar. This is like a car maker putting the steering wheel on the floor and the brake pedals on the dash. It just makes no sense unless they are diabolically evil. Wait, I may have just hit on something...
They're not evil, just :elephant:ing stupid. Because the sub-team guilty of the last edition of Flush Money Down the Toilet Trying to Create a Two Screen Tablet That Will Inevitably Be Cancelled Before Release as a Stupid Idea created a new taskbar optimized for a ~5-8" screen. Desperate to salvage something from the cash bon-fire some MS PM (Massively Stupid Professional Moron) decided to upgrade Windows 11 by salvaging the new taskbar from the last FMDTTCTSTTWICBRSI debacle, because it was a reasonable fit for his use case (make it look more like dock on the mac he wished he could use instead) while ignoring all the howls of protest from cow-orkers who tried pointing out that not everyone used Windows that way.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
I tend to agree. This is similar to the time that they added the forced reboot option - there is a video of some PM announcing MS was going to make it a little more flexible. He indicated that they have received a lot of feedback and most of it not repeatable :)
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
