A good mouse
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Is hard to find! I spent a week and a half on and off looking for a mouse that I knew I'd like. Nada. I dropped it. Today, my mouse wheel starts making an awful clicking noise. Time to order a new mouse. To heck with it, I'll just order something on Amazon. First thing that comes up is a Logitech Hero G502. 1) Is wired, which I insist on 2) Has ADJUSTABLE WEIGHTS. I like my mice heavy. This was a major selling point. 3) Looks like I can use it as a southpaw. The feel of my mouse is everything. I care about it more than other features. I almost settled on a wireless because of the weight of the batteries but I'll take this. And it gets delivered same day. Woo!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
OK - it must be that time of the decade for a new mouse. I have several mice but my favorite since 2009 has been a Logitech Anywhere MX. I've literally taken it around the world. In 2013 I bought another one as a backup because I didn't want to be without one if the first one crapped out -- which it has not. BUT...last week, something came over me and I thought - "It's time for a new favorite mouse!" My criteria...1) fits my hand completely (palm resting on top, fingertips rest right on the buttons - my hands are kind of large), 2) can be used ambidextrously (I'm a lefty but use right-handed mice), 3) wireless (my desk is too cluttered; also, I travel). I ended up with a Logitech M650L (blue) - and it is, in fact, my new favorite. One thing that I was not expecting to like is QUIET clicks; I use a mechanical keyboard and love the "noise" - but this quiet clicking mouse is kind of nice. You do feel the clicks, though. Another surprise was that it has Bluetooth in addition to the USB dongle. So, I'm glad I'm not the only one talking about a new mouse. I mentioned how excited I was about it to coworkers and family and it's kind of and odd thing to talk about. Most people don't care. Ok...NOW...who wants to talk about COFFEE MUGS?!!! :D
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Single Step Debugger wrote:
But, why? Why you need this cable?!
I also prefer a wired mouse. I work in a very RF noisy environment. The office has 440 IT professionals in one room and 3/4 are using wireless mice on the same frequency (company supplied). My wired mouse has a much better and more accurate response. And that's not to mention the wireless keyboards, ear buds, etc.
Most (/all) wireless mice I have been using have been Logitech, and they all have had a 3-way channel switch. Maybe cheaper brands don't provide alternate channels. When you bring in ear buds without a single word of comment, I wonder: Don't you see any difference at all between keyboard presses and mouse clicks, and real time media like sound? Believe me: There is a most significant difference. Maybe in the order of a couple orders of magnitude in data volume. For the RF noisy argument: My last 4 displays (2 at work, 2 at home) has USB sockets along the edge. I always used one of them for the wireless dongle, so the distance between the dongle and the mouse is 60-80 cm in open air when the sockets are on the left hand side of the screen, 30 cm if they are on the right hand side (that varies with the terminal model). If your screen doesn't provide USB sockets, put a small USB hub below your screen - you need it there anyway, for charging your mouse, mobile and other stuff, for hooking up your webcam etc. For Bluetooth, when the incoming signal is strong, the receiver will reduce its sensitivity to reduce other disturbances. My current mouse is not BT, but I'd guess that it follows the same logic. I have never experienced any RF noise problems, not in any environment at work or at home. There may of course be mice, keyboards or whatever, managed in a way that can't handle RF noise and/or can't provide sufficiently high bandwidth and short response time. E.g. Logitech MX Master 3 has been a popular mouse among gamers; I guess that is an indicator that when done the right way, wireless mousing (and keyboarding) can be as high-performing as you desire.
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Why don't you buy a wireless mouse charged from a USB socket? My mouse warns well in advance that it needs charging, giving me ample time to dig out a standard USB cable running from the USB socked in the screen to the mouse. I can continue using the mouse while it is charging; no interrupting of my work except for (finding and) plugging in the cable.
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This is not going to get much applause here, but I have used a (several) magic mouse(s) from apple. I doubt they work with win boxes. It has a few drawbacks, but one killer feature that has made me endure the drawbacks to the point where I simply buy a new one whenever the current one goes dead. The drawbacks: - it's a battery hog - it sometimes drops it's connection - it completely wears out in 3-5 years BUT: it has a touch surface on top (actually the entire top surface is touch sensitive). That means you can scroll in all directions in any application with an almost imperceptible movement of your finger across the surface, and not just scrolling, you can use it to flip through pictures in a photo's app, pages in a browser, even flip entire workspaces (with a 2-fingered gesture). I only wish they would make a wired version as that would fix drawbacks 1 and 2.
How often do I have to dig out the charger cable (from screen USB socket to mouse) for charging, causing no other delay of my work? Once a week? No, not that often. Maybe once every two weeks. Maybe I'd call it a 'battery hog' if I had to buy a new battery every two to three weeks, but plugging in the cable that often doesn't bother me. Drops connection? I don't even know how that appears. Do you have to switch the mouse off and back on again? In other words: That is not a problem. Wearing out? How does a mouse 'wear out'? Mechanically falling apart? Collecting too much dirt on the optical sensors? At home, I'll admit that I much too often accidentally push the mouse off the tabletop, so it falls on the stone floor. Maybe some mice won't handle repeated falls. None of my mice have had any problems. I have replaced wireless mice: Once to get rid of that cradle/dock/charging station, replacing it with a battery powered, no dock, model. Then again because I found a bigger model fitting my hand much better, with five buttons, two scroll wheels and USB charging. All functional extensions, not wear out. I have no memory of signs of wear out on any of the older ones. But then: I always bought the mouse I wanted. Not steered by what I could afford. I could afford what I wanted.
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I greatly prefer wired as well. However, I did have a wireless Logitech mouse that lasted for 15 years. When it died, I got another 3 years ago, and it's been great ever since. Though I'm right-dominant, I use a left-handed mouse. Why can't they create a ergonomic design for lefties?
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
Matt Bond wrote:
Why can't they create a ergonomic design for lefties?
When I check for 'Hand preference: Left' on the Logitech web site, I am presented with two alternatives ('Lift Left' and 'Signature M650 Left'. 'Ambidextrous' adds another nine - from the pictures, they seem to be perfectly symmetrical. I'd be surprised if other mouse breeders do not have similar offerings. I've stuck to Logitech for I-don't-know-how-many years, mostly because I have been mistreating my mice so badly that it is a great wonder why PETA hasn't come after me; the rodents are still obedient and well behaving.
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Matt Bond wrote:
Why can't they create a ergonomic design for lefties?
When I check for 'Hand preference: Left' on the Logitech web site, I am presented with two alternatives ('Lift Left' and 'Signature M650 Left'. 'Ambidextrous' adds another nine - from the pictures, they seem to be perfectly symmetrical. I'd be surprised if other mouse breeders do not have similar offerings. I've stuck to Logitech for I-don't-know-how-many years, mostly because I have been mistreating my mice so badly that it is a great wonder why PETA hasn't come after me; the rodents are still obedient and well behaving.
In my experience Ambidextrous <==> not ergonomic Thank you for looking, but I'm very good with my mice and they live long health lives in my house. I won't need another for at least a decade if all goes well.
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Why don't you buy a wireless mouse charged from a USB socket? My mouse warns well in advance that it needs charging, giving me ample time to dig out a standard USB cable running from the USB socked in the screen to the mouse. I can continue using the mouse while it is charging; no interrupting of my work except for (finding and) plugging in the cable.
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Is hard to find! I spent a week and a half on and off looking for a mouse that I knew I'd like. Nada. I dropped it. Today, my mouse wheel starts making an awful clicking noise. Time to order a new mouse. To heck with it, I'll just order something on Amazon. First thing that comes up is a Logitech Hero G502. 1) Is wired, which I insist on 2) Has ADJUSTABLE WEIGHTS. I like my mice heavy. This was a major selling point. 3) Looks like I can use it as a southpaw. The feel of my mouse is everything. I care about it more than other features. I almost settled on a wireless because of the weight of the batteries but I'll take this. And it gets delivered same day. Woo!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I use G502 for gaming for many years. The wheel kinda broke first. It does not scrolls up well. Maybe I should clean it. Everything else works fine.
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Is hard to find! I spent a week and a half on and off looking for a mouse that I knew I'd like. Nada. I dropped it. Today, my mouse wheel starts making an awful clicking noise. Time to order a new mouse. To heck with it, I'll just order something on Amazon. First thing that comes up is a Logitech Hero G502. 1) Is wired, which I insist on 2) Has ADJUSTABLE WEIGHTS. I like my mice heavy. This was a major selling point. 3) Looks like I can use it as a southpaw. The feel of my mouse is everything. I care about it more than other features. I almost settled on a wireless because of the weight of the batteries but I'll take this. And it gets delivered same day. Woo!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
The Logitech Hero G502 is the only mouse I'll use at this point. I have the same wired necessity, the weights are nice, but more love it because of the weighted, free-spinning scroll wheel. Ripping up and down huge pages is simple now. I can't live without it and will always have a secondary, just in case this one dies, or traveling or ???, etc. (it's about a year old and no problems). I learned about it from The Tech Lead on youtube. He did a mouse shootout a while back, in case you need more food for thought. If anyone else knows of a different free-spinning scroll wheel mouse, I'm all ears. I look every once in a while and so far haven't found any more (other than the wireless cousins of the Hero G502).
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Is hard to find! I spent a week and a half on and off looking for a mouse that I knew I'd like. Nada. I dropped it. Today, my mouse wheel starts making an awful clicking noise. Time to order a new mouse. To heck with it, I'll just order something on Amazon. First thing that comes up is a Logitech Hero G502. 1) Is wired, which I insist on 2) Has ADJUSTABLE WEIGHTS. I like my mice heavy. This was a major selling point. 3) Looks like I can use it as a southpaw. The feel of my mouse is everything. I care about it more than other features. I almost settled on a wireless because of the weight of the batteries but I'll take this. And it gets delivered same day. Woo!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
How many here use a trackball mouse? I use the Logitech MX Ergo trackball, which is wireless, Bluetooth, and a battery that lasts an easy 6 months between charges. My wrist thanks me very much for this... And it's got a neat angle bracket too. No one likes it other than me so I'm safe from family members running off with it. 😁
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honey the codewitch wrote:
- Is wired, which I insist on
But, why? Why you need this cable?!
Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Is hard to find! I spent a week and a half on and off looking for a mouse that I knew I'd like. Nada. I dropped it. Today, my mouse wheel starts making an awful clicking noise. Time to order a new mouse. To heck with it, I'll just order something on Amazon. First thing that comes up is a Logitech Hero G502. 1) Is wired, which I insist on 2) Has ADJUSTABLE WEIGHTS. I like my mice heavy. This was a major selling point. 3) Looks like I can use it as a southpaw. The feel of my mouse is everything. I care about it more than other features. I almost settled on a wireless because of the weight of the batteries but I'll take this. And it gets delivered same day. Woo!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I have been using the entry level Microsoft optical mouse for over 20 years now. For a while they got hard to find among the horrid multi-button gimmicky devices so I bought a batch from Goodwill for a few bucks each and worked through these weary warriors until I could get new again. The only decent product the company ever made. And now they're discontinuing them.
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I have been using the entry level Microsoft optical mouse for over 20 years now. For a while they got hard to find among the horrid multi-button gimmicky devices so I bought a batch from Goodwill for a few bucks each and worked through these weary warriors until I could get new again. The only decent product the company ever made. And now they're discontinuing them.
resuna wrote:
The only decent product the company ever made.
Not so! I can think of two others: Visual Studio, and Xbox Elite Wireless Controller Series 2[^] - I bought one recently,. and it is really superb. Expensive, yes. But "decent" is way too low a bar for this thing! :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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resuna wrote:
The only decent product the company ever made.
Not so! I can think of two others: Visual Studio, and Xbox Elite Wireless Controller Series 2[^] - I bought one recently,. and it is really superb. Expensive, yes. But "decent" is way too low a bar for this thing! :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Is hard to find! I spent a week and a half on and off looking for a mouse that I knew I'd like. Nada. I dropped it. Today, my mouse wheel starts making an awful clicking noise. Time to order a new mouse. To heck with it, I'll just order something on Amazon. First thing that comes up is a Logitech Hero G502. 1) Is wired, which I insist on 2) Has ADJUSTABLE WEIGHTS. I like my mice heavy. This was a major selling point. 3) Looks like I can use it as a southpaw. The feel of my mouse is everything. I care about it more than other features. I almost settled on a wireless because of the weight of the batteries but I'll take this. And it gets delivered same day. Woo!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Presumably you’ve already purchased and received your new mouse. I hope it’s all you want it to be. I’ve been using a gaming mouse for the past several years. Not that I do any gaming, but the resolution and longevity seem to be on the upper end of the spectrum. It’s a Roccat mouse. It’s programmable, but again, my needs are simple, so I don’t use much of that. Many years ago I used a regular mouse, but my shoulder started getting twingey so I switched to a roller-ball style for a decade or so. Later I switched to using a Wacom tablet/pad. I know: “those are for graphic artists”. Oh no. Best pointing device ever. Point-to-point mapping so you don’t have to drag the mouse to move the pointer, multi-functional stylus, etc. After I retired I downsized my workspace and so moved back to a standard (gaming) mouse. I think one should explore all the options since you spend so much time with it. Cheers and good times! :)
Time is the differentiation of eternity devised by man to measure the passage of human events. - Manly P. Hall Mark Just another cog in the wheel
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Developing software on Windows is too great a burden for anything associated with it to rise to the level of "decent". I can not comment on gaming hardware. The last time I did much gaming was when I was developing Tracers on the Amiga 1000.
resuna wrote:
Developing software on Windows is too great a burden for anything associated with it to rise to the level of "decent".
Now, you know that's untrue. Many, many of us just on this site do it every day, and find the process easy and comfortable - and VS goes a long way to help with that! Perhaps, you should invest a small amount of time learning how to use it instead of just ignoring it because "it's microsoft"? And I bet the Amiga was fun to develop on and not at all frustrating ... :laugh: Back in those days I was writing Z80 code for embedded devices using EDLIN under DOS, which was ... an experience I do not wish to repeat.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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resuna wrote:
Developing software on Windows is too great a burden for anything associated with it to rise to the level of "decent".
Now, you know that's untrue. Many, many of us just on this site do it every day, and find the process easy and comfortable - and VS goes a long way to help with that! Perhaps, you should invest a small amount of time learning how to use it instead of just ignoring it because "it's microsoft"? And I bet the Amiga was fun to develop on and not at all frustrating ... :laugh: Back in those days I was writing Z80 code for embedded devices using EDLIN under DOS, which was ... an experience I do not wish to repeat.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
To be fair I've never liked Microsoft's C++ compiler offerings. For a long time they were not standard enough to implement a canonical version of the STL. After they fixed that, they made their compiler very persnickety in terms of its interpretation of the standard. GCC and Clang seem to allow for the broadest interpretation in my experience. Basically, if you can interpret the spec a certain way, GCC supports that. The same does not seem to be true of MSVC++ - it is very strict, and you almost have to relearn things - particularly the subset of the *interpretations* of the standard that MS supports. Sorry, it's a bit hard to explain. If anything MSVC++ is correct, it's just finicky in its correctness. You can write code in GCC that will not compile under MSVC++ even though they are both to C++ spec, technically.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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To be fair I've never liked Microsoft's C++ compiler offerings. For a long time they were not standard enough to implement a canonical version of the STL. After they fixed that, they made their compiler very persnickety in terms of its interpretation of the standard. GCC and Clang seem to allow for the broadest interpretation in my experience. Basically, if you can interpret the spec a certain way, GCC supports that. The same does not seem to be true of MSVC++ - it is very strict, and you almost have to relearn things - particularly the subset of the *interpretations* of the standard that MS supports. Sorry, it's a bit hard to explain. If anything MSVC++ is correct, it's just finicky in its correctness. You can write code in GCC that will not compile under MSVC++ even though they are both to C++ spec, technically.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Microsoft tends to implement standards reluctantly and using every possible misinterpretation to encourage people to use their proprietary APIs instead. Their POSIX subsystem was a perfect example. They deliberately crippled it and defended their misfeatures as "we're just following the standard as we see it". When a company implemented an actually useful UNIX API on top of it, they bought them and took it off the market for several years... finally exposing it as part of their Windows Services for UNIX which at first was only available on NT Server. You exactly nailed it. The passive-aggressive standards conformance is a "feature".
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Microsoft tends to implement standards reluctantly and using every possible misinterpretation to encourage people to use their proprietary APIs instead. Their POSIX subsystem was a perfect example. They deliberately crippled it and defended their misfeatures as "we're just following the standard as we see it". When a company implemented an actually useful UNIX API on top of it, they bought them and took it off the market for several years... finally exposing it as part of their Windows Services for UNIX which at first was only available on NT Server. You exactly nailed it. The passive-aggressive standards conformance is a "feature".
I don't think this behavior is unique to Microsoft. Apple is almost worse about it in some respects, except where it applies to their hardware. I think it's a biproduct of A) A large company's tendency toward inertia which interferes with its responsiveness to users B) A closed loop system And a lot of companies have historically done similar. IBM is a great example of that. And to be completely fair to Microsoft, they've gotten better about all this in recent years, but still have a long way to go. Open sourcing a .NET reference implementation is a good example of the improvement I'm talking about.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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resuna wrote:
Developing software on Windows is too great a burden for anything associated with it to rise to the level of "decent".
Now, you know that's untrue. Many, many of us just on this site do it every day, and find the process easy and comfortable - and VS goes a long way to help with that! Perhaps, you should invest a small amount of time learning how to use it instead of just ignoring it because "it's microsoft"? And I bet the Amiga was fun to develop on and not at all frustrating ... :laugh: Back in those days I was writing Z80 code for embedded devices using EDLIN under DOS, which was ... an experience I do not wish to repeat.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Oh dear. Yes, I know how to use it. I have written code on both DOS and Windows for over 40 years now, and even when I was doing it every day it was at best annoying, the API is hodge-podge and the scripting environment fragmented worse then '80s UNIX. I would rather code for 6th Edition from 1976 (even with the funky 6th edition shell). The Amiga was amazing. The message-passing real-time OS underlying AmigaDOS was really intuitive: even for low level work - you could write device drivers just by having a program post a message port and respond to appropriate messages - and the API was the best I have ever used "live fire" for low-level concurrent programming. It's a pity the business-feud-turned-personal between Tramiel and Gould doomed it from the start.
