Programmers are artist?
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
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Yeah, I've come across my fair share of developers, who you might consider to be artists - if you think abstract squiggles are art! And in amongst those squiggles, are some lovely, (artistic?) booby-traps, that the rest of us have to watch out for. In my experience, the developers with genuine practical abilities are the ones that develop code I would be most happy to pick up. I would take someone who can build a house over someone with a degree in Art, every time. Good developers are artisans, not artists.
Even a artisan is an artist, not known in the world, but known in his "little" country world :)
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Maybe this book has part of the answer: [C# For Artists: The Art, Philosophy, And Science Of Object-Oriented Programming, 2nd Edition (PDF Download) | Pulp Free Press](https://pulpfreepress.com/product/c-sharp-for-artists-second-edition-pdf-download/)
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Maybe this book has part of the answer: [C# For Artists: The Art, Philosophy, And Science Of Object-Oriented Programming, 2nd Edition (PDF Download) | Pulp Free Press](https://pulpfreepress.com/product/c-sharp-for-artists-second-edition-pdf-download/)
Interesting publication. But one who wrote like me can also be considered an artist 10 CLS 20 Print "Your Name (N for exit)";: Input "",W$ 30 if W$="N" goto 100 40 Print "Good morning"; W$ 100 END :laugh: :laugh:
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Depends on the programmer. I've know a few who can't create anything beautiful or functional, but who somehow manage to hold down a job ... :sigh: Come to that, not all art is "beautiful or functional" either: Damon Hurst springs to mind, as does Tracy Emin. Then there is Goya - "Saturn Devouring One of His Sons" is not something you'd want to wake up to ... the list goes on.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Looking on how Bob looks like, I would recommend you to remain in the functional side ;) ;P :-D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Programmers are creative, at least the good ones. To be creative you need an artistic component, but you also need a lot of know-how and, in many of the fields we operate, science. So I'd say either 50% art and 50% practical knowledge or 33% art, 33% practical knowledge and 33% science. The remaining 1% is for profanity.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
den2k88 wrote:
The remaining 1% is for profanity.
Or craziness :rolleyes:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Looking on how Bob looks like, I would recommend you to remain in the functional side ;) ;P :-D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
This would be my preference as well! I know, I know - a bad workman blames his tools - but given half decent graphics editing tools I'm not incompetent at graphics stuff. This editor though ... it's a PITA. Bob is now up to two arms and one hand, but that took me an hour and my eyes are bleeding again. :-D * I use Corel Paintshop Pro and have for decades now, back when it was still the "Yet Another Software Company" product. It's pretty damn good and gets better when you learn how to fly it (even if it is a Corel product: company motto: "Add bugs and complicate")
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Creatives certainly, not necessarily artists. But mostly we fall into the "other professional thinking persons" category.
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Does art need a user? How personal is a personal project?
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done
I beg to differ. I can think of quite a few people, some of them even CPians, whom I would call artisans. They certainly do not write their code by stitching together bits and bobs from SO. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Does art need a user? How personal is a personal project?
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
If a painter paints a painting, does it only become art when it is displayed? I think not.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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If a painter paints a painting, does it only become art when it is displayed? I think not.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Oh, I agree ... but can the same be said for software if there is no one to use it (other than the author ... who in fact may have no "personal" need / use for it). (I'm delighted when users find ways to use my software that I didn't consider; e.g. multiple sessions)
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done
I beg to differ. I can think of quite a few people, some of them even CPians, whom I would call artisans. They certainly do not write their code by stitching together bits and bobs from SO. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
I beg to differ.
You're being entirely too literal. If you read the next part after your quote, you'll see I also used to the word _most_. Which while, if I were being pedantic too, sounds contradictory. But, in your typical, every day, colloquial conversation peeps shouldn't be _that_ literal with one solitary part of the entire post with a word like "everyone" when the entirety of the rest of the post "contradicts" that. Also, refer to the title of my post for the further context.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Which is my point Daniel. Context...
Jeremy Falcon
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If a painter paints a painting, does it only become art when it is displayed? I think not.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
But if beauty is in the eye of the beholder - is it beautiful if no-one can see it? Is code beautiful if it never gets executed?
Telegraph marker posts ... nothing to do with IT Phasmid email discussion group ... also nothing to do with IT Beekeeping and honey site ... still nothing to do with IT
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But if beauty is in the eye of the beholder - is it beautiful if no-one can see it? Is code beautiful if it never gets executed?
Telegraph marker posts ... nothing to do with IT Phasmid email discussion group ... also nothing to do with IT Beekeeping and honey site ... still nothing to do with IT
Any work of art (or program) has at least one beholder - its creator. I refer you to Genesis chapter 1, verse 31 - "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Oh, I agree ... but can the same be said for software if there is no one to use it (other than the author ... who in fact may have no "personal" need / use for it). (I'm delighted when users find ways to use my software that I didn't consider; e.g. multiple sessions)
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
Software might be an example of good artisanship even if it is never executed by anyone other than its writer. Naturally, there is a greater sense of accomplishment when others also find your work useful or beautiful.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Using that definition however then the words 'art' and 'artist' would no longer have any actual meaning. After all is not a cake beautiful? Is not a bridge? What about a garden full of carefully laid out vegetable rows? Or a field of corn? What about a house which has just received a beautifully applied new coat of paint? On 'This Old House' (TV show) when they replumb one of those old houses and then they display the plumbing in the basement with multiple pipes and cutoff valves to each part of the house that certainly looks beautiful to me.
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In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
I have not really seen that. If for no other reason then I would expect some of them to do a better job if they were just pasting existing pieces together.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
to a point where everyone uses a library for everything
Nothing wrong with any practical endeavor to seek short cuts. For example pre-constructed housing even with custom designs are increasing. Manufactured wood is also being used more extensively. Absolutely no one that does any modern civil engineering does it on a an easel with pencils and paper. CRISPR allows one to create new biology and analyzing existing biological products can be done perhaps in minutes now versus years (decades) that it took before. No doubt those new tools can be misused. Probably some that use them do not even understand what they are doing. And that could and probably does lead to problems. But ability to do much more complex projects makes it worth it.
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Any work of art (or program) has at least one beholder - its creator. I refer you to Genesis chapter 1, verse 31 - "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
