Programmers are artist?
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Does art need a user? How personal is a personal project?
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done
I beg to differ. I can think of quite a few people, some of them even CPians, whom I would call artisans. They certainly do not write their code by stitching together bits and bobs from SO. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Does art need a user? How personal is a personal project?
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
If a painter paints a painting, does it only become art when it is displayed? I think not.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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If a painter paints a painting, does it only become art when it is displayed? I think not.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Oh, I agree ... but can the same be said for software if there is no one to use it (other than the author ... who in fact may have no "personal" need / use for it). (I'm delighted when users find ways to use my software that I didn't consider; e.g. multiple sessions)
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done
I beg to differ. I can think of quite a few people, some of them even CPians, whom I would call artisans. They certainly do not write their code by stitching together bits and bobs from SO. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
I beg to differ.
You're being entirely too literal. If you read the next part after your quote, you'll see I also used to the word _most_. Which while, if I were being pedantic too, sounds contradictory. But, in your typical, every day, colloquial conversation peeps shouldn't be _that_ literal with one solitary part of the entire post with a word like "everyone" when the entirety of the rest of the post "contradicts" that. Also, refer to the title of my post for the further context.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Which is my point Daniel. Context...
Jeremy Falcon
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If a painter paints a painting, does it only become art when it is displayed? I think not.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
But if beauty is in the eye of the beholder - is it beautiful if no-one can see it? Is code beautiful if it never gets executed?
Telegraph marker posts ... nothing to do with IT Phasmid email discussion group ... also nothing to do with IT Beekeeping and honey site ... still nothing to do with IT
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But if beauty is in the eye of the beholder - is it beautiful if no-one can see it? Is code beautiful if it never gets executed?
Telegraph marker posts ... nothing to do with IT Phasmid email discussion group ... also nothing to do with IT Beekeeping and honey site ... still nothing to do with IT
Any work of art (or program) has at least one beholder - its creator. I refer you to Genesis chapter 1, verse 31 - "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Oh, I agree ... but can the same be said for software if there is no one to use it (other than the author ... who in fact may have no "personal" need / use for it). (I'm delighted when users find ways to use my software that I didn't consider; e.g. multiple sessions)
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
Software might be an example of good artisanship even if it is never executed by anyone other than its writer. Naturally, there is a greater sense of accomplishment when others also find your work useful or beautiful.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Using that definition however then the words 'art' and 'artist' would no longer have any actual meaning. After all is not a cake beautiful? Is not a bridge? What about a garden full of carefully laid out vegetable rows? Or a field of corn? What about a house which has just received a beautifully applied new coat of paint? On 'This Old House' (TV show) when they replumb one of those old houses and then they display the plumbing in the basement with multiple pipes and cutoff valves to each part of the house that certainly looks beautiful to me.
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In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
I have not really seen that. If for no other reason then I would expect some of them to do a better job if they were just pasting existing pieces together.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
to a point where everyone uses a library for everything
Nothing wrong with any practical endeavor to seek short cuts. For example pre-constructed housing even with custom designs are increasing. Manufactured wood is also being used more extensively. Absolutely no one that does any modern civil engineering does it on a an easel with pencils and paper. CRISPR allows one to create new biology and analyzing existing biological products can be done perhaps in minutes now versus years (decades) that it took before. No doubt those new tools can be misused. Probably some that use them do not even understand what they are doing. And that could and probably does lead to problems. But ability to do much more complex projects makes it worth it.
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Any work of art (or program) has at least one beholder - its creator. I refer you to Genesis chapter 1, verse 31 - "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Programming is like a bunch of people whose skills are questionable all painting on the same canvas over several years. Eventually all you get a brown mud even if van Gogh was one of the first painters.
Latest Articles:
A Lightweight Thread Safe In-Memory Keyed Generic Cache Collection Service A Dynamic Where Implementation for Entity Framework -
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
Any work of art (or program) has at least one beholder - its creator. I refer you to Genesis chapter 1, verse 31 - "And God saw every
Doesn't that mean that the count is actually two?
First there was nothing And then God created light There was still nothing, but now you could see it. :)
>64 Some days the dragon wins. Suck it up.
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Programming is like a bunch of people whose skills are questionable all painting on the same canvas over several years. Eventually all you get a brown mud even if van Gogh was one of the first painters.
Latest Articles:
A Lightweight Thread Safe In-Memory Keyed Generic Cache Collection Service A Dynamic Where Implementation for Entity Frameworkfirst definition in dictionary.com for "artist" 1. a person who produces works in any of the arts that are primarily subject to aesthetic criteria. not quite a "fit" programming, but a programmer's "art" could possibly be considered art in the eyes of other programmers.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
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first definition in dictionary.com for "artist" 1. a person who produces works in any of the arts that are primarily subject to aesthetic criteria. not quite a "fit" programming, but a programmer's "art" could possibly be considered art in the eyes of other programmers.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
Pretty much the first criteria of any project I start, or code I write, is that it has to be aesthetic in its architecture and code. It's a goal and real life often enters in, but it is something I always have at the fore when writing code, API's, tests, etc.
Latest Articles:
A Lightweight Thread Safe In-Memory Keyed Generic Cache Collection Service A Dynamic Where Implementation for Entity Framework -
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
I have not really seen that. If for no other reason then I would expect some of them to do a better job if they were just pasting existing pieces together.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
to a point where everyone uses a library for everything
Nothing wrong with any practical endeavor to seek short cuts. For example pre-constructed housing even with custom designs are increasing. Manufactured wood is also being used more extensively. Absolutely no one that does any modern civil engineering does it on a an easel with pencils and paper. CRISPR allows one to create new biology and analyzing existing biological products can be done perhaps in minutes now versus years (decades) that it took before. No doubt those new tools can be misused. Probably some that use them do not even understand what they are doing. And that could and probably does lead to problems. But ability to do much more complex projects makes it worth it.
I've already asked you to leave me alone... more than once. Clearly you don't listen and enjoy abusive relationships. If CP had a blocking feature you'd be blocked. But, all you're doing is showing the world just how little you value healthy relationships.
Jeremy Falcon
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Pretty much the first criteria of any project I start, or code I write, is that it has to be aesthetic in its architecture and code. It's a goal and real life often enters in, but it is something I always have at the fore when writing code, API's, tests, etc.
Latest Articles:
A Lightweight Thread Safe In-Memory Keyed Generic Cache Collection Service A Dynamic Where Implementation for Entity FrameworkI hear you. Usually when I start any project, I pseudo code it for clarity and purpose. That's my art slant. I don't view as such, but sometimes it is. Similar to mathematics when one wants to simplify an equation. There are also exceptions when a quick solution is needed and brevity counts. There is art in that sometimes, as well. Large projects start in much the same way, but with more thought given to naming conventions, data structures, etc. I had one project where I used a lot of hash tables, n-ary trees, command line parsing, 3D computer graphics pseudo programming language with equations. Threw the kitchen sink of my computer science techniques at it. Got it functionally useful in several months, but a few years to cement it for the users. Not sure where the art lives, but I put my heart into it.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
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In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
There's nothing inherently wrong in using libraries. A photographer is using a camera instead of paint and a brush. But doesn't need to know how the camera works to be able to produce beautiful pictures. But as with all things, a good camera doesn't make a good photographer.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
Frankly no these days they are scribes trying not to make too many copying errors