Carefully
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>> I also believe nothing can justify this weeks events or detract from the right of the US to act to protect it's citizens. Chris, You cannot protect your citizens against a determined terrorist with turning your society into a police state. You need to attack the root causes of the terrorism. As I said in my initial message, there is justification for these acts, but don't that doesn't cloud the issue of looking for the real reason for these attacks. Why did people feel compeled to give up their lives and attack the U.S. ? >> Please provide a list of times the US has killed innocent victims deliberately. I'll give you Nagasaki in advance. It's always easy to hate and be suspicious of the guy with the biggest stick, but I'll ask you one thing - would you prefer it be the US, or Iraq ? I feel you are personnally attacking me for asking uncomfortable questions. The world is bigger than the U.S. and Iraq, there are 8 billion of people on this planet. I am a firm believe in 'live and let live'. All i am adovcating is that the guy with the biggest stick not degerate into a school yard bully. >> Please provide a list of times the US has killed innocent victims deliberately. Last year, their where several bombings on a american embassies in several african states. Olsma Bin Laden is widely accepted to have been behind this. The U.S. responded by attacking up a phamacticals factory that was 'reportedily' producing incedures for the islamic extremists. It was in fact producing drugs to treat africa's enormous number of A.I.D.S victims. this is the type of response that concerns me. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
List of the countries bombed by the United States after World War II China 1945-46 Korea 1950-53 China 1950-53 Guatemala 1954 Indonesia 1958 Cuba 1959-60 Guatemala 1960 Congo 1964 Peru 1965 Laos 1964-73 Vietnam 1961-73 Guatemala 1967-69 Cambodia 1969-70 Grenada 1983 Libya 1986 El Salvador 1980s Nicaragua 1980s Panama 1989 Iraq 1991-1999 Bosnia 1995 Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia 1999
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I hear what you are saying, it really is a bit of a toothless organization. There is however no question that we are very quickly moving toward a one world government, and it will quite likely be some evolution of the U.N. that forms this, 50 or 100 years from now. David
Well, yes, I certainly agree with that. History clearly shows that rapid political revolution follows on the heels of slow economic evolution. We certainly today have evolved into a one world economy. The question is, what will be the nature of the government that ulitimately forms to control that economy? The leaders of the islamic world clearly see that and are manuevering to be that government. *That* is what this "act of terrorism" is all about. The Europeans want a U.N. controlled social democracy of some kind. And I just want a simple Jeffersonian Democracy where I can continue to live my own life in my own way. Who will win? I'm afraid it is going to be one hell of a bloody century.
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Christian, let me remind you Beograd, Yugoslavia. Please do - what where when why how ? And don't forget about many thousands of people burned alive with napalm in Vietnam. Vietnam was a hell of a thing. There is no doubt the US should not have been there. But being there, they fought an enemy who was hidden by the people you are talking about. They didn't set out to kill civilians, they found themselves in a situation where the civilians were helping the enemy kill *them*, and they fought back. BTW, have the US apologized for Nagasaki? No, and I doubt they will. There is no doubt that Nagakasi was a gruesome science experiment. Has Japan apologised for the terrible way they treated POW's ? The knife cuts both ways, and the incident is 56 years ago. It has little bearing on the events of today. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
> Please do - what where when why how ? Please don't play the innocent! Hundreds of civil people were killed by NATO (==US) in 1999. The country was demolished. What was the reason for it? Who has entitled the US to bomb Yugoslavia? The only legitimate authority I know of is the Security Council of UN. > Vietnam was a hell of a thing. There is no doubt the US should > not have been there. But being there, they fought an enemy who > was hidden by the people you are talking about. They didn't set > out to kill civilians, they found themselves in a situation where > the civilians were helping the enemy kill *them*, and they fought back. What a poor logic! What would you do, if your bitterest enemy would be hidden by his mother/wife/daughter? Kill them all? And who has invited American troops to come to Vietnam? > No, and I doubt they will. There is no doubt that Nagakasi was a > gruesome science experiment. Has Japan apologised for the terrible > way they treated POW's ? The knife cuts both ways, and the incident > is 56 years ago. It has little bearing on the events of today. IMO, there is no statute of limitation for such inhuman actions and it's never too late to say "sorry", especially if you're pretending to be more civilized and moral than anybody else on this planet. Nikolay
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Apologize for Nagasaki!!!!!!!! :confused: ROFLMAO.
ROFLMAO? Do you think it's funny? Bad sense of humour!
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Chris, I will not discuss , this nor any other issue on an unmoderated board. I feel that if cannot conducted themselves in a mature manner, it is not worth talking to them. People resent the U.S. because they feel that the U.S. imposes its style of peace and justice upon the world. You are correct when you say that over the next few months, the U.S. will seek justice for what has happened. I can understand this but it I cannot support it. We have a forum for discussing matters such as this and advocating responses its called the U.N. Nearliy every country in the world is represented at the U.N. and subscribes the U.N. ideal, it is acknowledged worldwide that it is the correct forum to consult when taking these type of steps. But the U.S. won't consult the U.N. it never does. Which is another reason people resent the U.S. People say we have a forumn which we support and all agree to discuss our grievances there, in an effort to prevent another World War. And the U.S. will ignore this and carry on regardless. I am not attacking the U.S. when I say this, for it is not the only country who ignores the counsel of the U.N., all I am saying is, that if every action was taken with U.N. support people would feel less resentment towards the U.S. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
People resent the U.S. because they feel that the U.S. imposes its style of peace and justice upon the world. I'm actually on the other side of the fence. I live in the US and I resent it for not doing nearly enough to impose its style of peace and justice upon the world. If it had, we wouldn't be having countries like Cuba (where I was born) with a totalitarian dictator, in power for 42 years, who has kept his people leaving in terror and exported it to most other countries in Latin America. All this just 90 miles South of the Florida Keys! IMO the whole argument of people resenting the US for imposing its style of peace and justice is a bunch of crap. I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't want to live in a free and democratic society like or similar to ours. Those who don't, deserve to be nuked, plain and simple. When you think of how many people have risked and given their lives to reach this country... Regards, Alvaro
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People resent the U.S. because they feel that the U.S. imposes its style of peace and justice upon the world. I'm actually on the other side of the fence. I live in the US and I resent it for not doing nearly enough to impose its style of peace and justice upon the world. If it had, we wouldn't be having countries like Cuba (where I was born) with a totalitarian dictator, in power for 42 years, who has kept his people leaving in terror and exported it to most other countries in Latin America. All this just 90 miles South of the Florida Keys! IMO the whole argument of people resenting the US for imposing its style of peace and justice is a bunch of crap. I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't want to live in a free and democratic society like or similar to ours. Those who don't, deserve to be nuked, plain and simple. When you think of how many people have risked and given their lives to reach this country... Regards, Alvaro
Thank you, Alvaro. I often wonder if the critics of the U.S. could pick another country to possess our current level of hegemony, who it would be?
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Chris, I will not discuss , this nor any other issue on an unmoderated board. I feel that if cannot conducted themselves in a mature manner, it is not worth talking to them. People resent the U.S. because they feel that the U.S. imposes its style of peace and justice upon the world. You are correct when you say that over the next few months, the U.S. will seek justice for what has happened. I can understand this but it I cannot support it. We have a forum for discussing matters such as this and advocating responses its called the U.N. Nearliy every country in the world is represented at the U.N. and subscribes the U.N. ideal, it is acknowledged worldwide that it is the correct forum to consult when taking these type of steps. But the U.S. won't consult the U.N. it never does. Which is another reason people resent the U.S. People say we have a forumn which we support and all agree to discuss our grievances there, in an effort to prevent another World War. And the U.S. will ignore this and carry on regardless. I am not attacking the U.S. when I say this, for it is not the only country who ignores the counsel of the U.N., all I am saying is, that if every action was taken with U.N. support people would feel less resentment towards the U.S. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
...is a tea party. did the people who did this go through the UN with their grievances? maybe. but since nobody is taking responsibility, we can assume the answer is "no". -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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ROFLMAO? Do you think it's funny? Bad sense of humour!
I think the notion that we should apologize for it is damned funny. I would ask you to observe that Japan has been a peaceful, democratic nation since that time. Hmmm, what historic lessons does that teach us?
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Thank you, Alvaro. I often wonder if the critics of the U.S. could pick another country to possess our current level of hegemony, who it would be?
Unfortunately there is no other country in the world with the U.S. 's level of authority, if the was another Super State (to coin a phrase), I don't think we would as many problems as we do. Perhaps, with some luck in a few years we will have a Federal Europe and then perhaps the world will return to balance. Not to rival the U.S. but to provide an alternative to the U.S. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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I think the notion that we should apologize for it is damned funny. I would ask you to observe that Japan has been a peaceful, democratic nation since that time. Hmmm, what historic lessons does that teach us?
As has Germany ... whats your point ? Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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Well, yes, I certainly agree with that. History clearly shows that rapid political revolution follows on the heels of slow economic evolution. We certainly today have evolved into a one world economy. The question is, what will be the nature of the government that ulitimately forms to control that economy? The leaders of the islamic world clearly see that and are manuevering to be that government. *That* is what this "act of terrorism" is all about. The Europeans want a U.N. controlled social democracy of some kind. And I just want a simple Jeffersonian Democracy where I can continue to live my own life in my own way. Who will win? I'm afraid it is going to be one hell of a bloody century.
Who will win? I'm no political scientist, but I've always held democracy as the ultimate evolution of government (hey Ultimate Democracy -- Troy can we productize that ;)). My expectation is that, as you've said, it will be a bloody century as each dictator or opressive government is overthrown and each fledgling democracy evolves. I think you guys are starting to appreciate the fact that I'm a little right of traditional Canadian politics. Actually, I think most Canadians are a little right of traditional Canadian politics. David
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> 3/ Please provide a list of times the US has killed innocent victums > deliberately. I'll give you Nagasaki in advance. It's always easy to > hate and be suspicious of the guy with the biggest stick, but I'll ask > you one thing - would you prefer it be the US, or Iraq ? Christian, let me remind you Beograd, Yugoslavia. And don't forget about many thousands of people burned alive with napalm in Vietnam. BTW, have the US apologized for Nagasaki? Regards, Nikolay
BTW, have the US apologized for Nagasaki? Why would they? Christ, man, if they hadn't done that, at least 1 million Americans would have died invading the Japanese mainland. Everyday people were trained to fight - women, children, the elderly. The number of casualties would have been tremendously high on BOTH sides had the US not dropped both bombs. Jon Sagara Sagara Software
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As has Germany ... whats your point ? Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Just a simple observation.
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Unfortunately there is no other country in the world with the U.S. 's level of authority, if the was another Super State (to coin a phrase), I don't think we would as many problems as we do. Perhaps, with some luck in a few years we will have a Federal Europe and then perhaps the world will return to balance. Not to rival the U.S. but to provide an alternative to the U.S. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
The future is going to be *very* interesting.
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The future is going to be *very* interesting.
There is an old Chinese saying 'May you live in interesting times.' It's meant as a curse.:) When religion and politics help drive the same cart, they tend to drive faster and faster until it is too late to stop when they see the cliff ahead -- Frank Herbert.
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> Please do - what where when why how ? Please don't play the innocent! Hundreds of civil people were killed by NATO (==US) in 1999. The country was demolished. What was the reason for it? Who has entitled the US to bomb Yugoslavia? The only legitimate authority I know of is the Security Council of UN. > Vietnam was a hell of a thing. There is no doubt the US should > not have been there. But being there, they fought an enemy who > was hidden by the people you are talking about. They didn't set > out to kill civilians, they found themselves in a situation where > the civilians were helping the enemy kill *them*, and they fought back. What a poor logic! What would you do, if your bitterest enemy would be hidden by his mother/wife/daughter? Kill them all? And who has invited American troops to come to Vietnam? > No, and I doubt they will. There is no doubt that Nagakasi was a > gruesome science experiment. Has Japan apologised for the terrible > way they treated POW's ? The knife cuts both ways, and the incident > is 56 years ago. It has little bearing on the events of today. IMO, there is no statute of limitation for such inhuman actions and it's never too late to say "sorry", especially if you're pretending to be more civilized and moral than anybody else on this planet. Nikolay
> Please do - what where when why how ? Please don't play the innocent! Hundreds of civil people were killed by NATO (==US) in 1999. The country was demolished. What was the reason for it? Who has entitled the US to bomb Yugoslavia? The only legitimate authority I know of is the Security Council of UN. Well, aren't you a grumpy little puppy. It may astound you to learn that I needed to look up the NATO site to get a clue as to what you were talking about, given your unwillingless to answer a simple question. a/ NATO has 19 member countries. Belgium Canada Czech Republic Denmark France Germany Greece Hungary Iceland Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Spain Turkey United Kingdom United States b/ I vaguely remember NATO peacekeepers going into some area in 1999 to stop two ethnic groups from blowing the hell out of each other, but given your unwillingless to anser a civil question, I can only assume you mean > Vietnam was a hell of a thing. There is no doubt the US should > not have been there. But being there, they fought an enemy who > was hidden by the people you are talking about. They didn't set > out to kill civilians, they found themselves in a situation where > the civilians were helping the enemy kill *them*, and they fought back. What a poor logic! What would you do, if your bitterest enemy would be hidden by his mother/wife/daughter? Kill them all? And who has invited American troops to come to Vietnam? Hell yes, if you're in a state of war, you look for the enemy and those who harbour them. I already said they should not have been there. It's obvious you're beyond reasonable discussion on this. > No, and I doubt they will. There is no doubt that Nagakasi was a > gruesome science experiment. Has Japan apologised for the terrible > way they treated POW's ? The knife cuts both ways, and the incident > is 56 years ago. It has little bearing on the events of today. IMO, there is no statute of limitation for such inhuman actions and it's never too late to say "sorry", especially if you're pretending to be more civilized and moral than anybody else on this planet. I doubt the average American would view it as anything beyond an act designed to end WWII, and my point stands. The Japanese are as guilty, but it appears the difference is you don't hate them. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to kee