Software outsourcing
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: You're 10000% right here, buddy! The education system SUCKS! Do you mean the "Education System", as in the education system, or the programming currliculum that your college has?
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother TeresaRohit Sinha wrote: Do you mean the "Education System", as in the education system, or the programming currliculum that your college has? Certainly not the whole of India- I can't make such a sweeping statement, but *at least* all of TN. And TN is supposed to be the best for college education. :(
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: You're 10000% right here, buddy! The education system SUCKS! :omg: :wtf: :confused: :~ :| X| :suss: :eek: :zzz: I forgive b'cos you haven't seen the world. Education system is good, only the policies governed by Govt sucks. (ex: giving priority to caste than percentage of marks...) Read the interesting articles here.[^]
"If a jug falls upon a stone, woe to the jug. If a stone falls upon a jug, woe to the jug. Always woe to the jug"." - KaЯl
This signature was created by "Code Project Quoter".Kant wrote: I forgive b'cos you haven't seen the world. I'm learning, master. ;P Seriously, though the quality of education is slowly improving, it has a loooong way to go. Heard of Amrita ( www.amrita.edu )? It's :cool: !
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: But when it comes to education, I'm the person experiecing things firsthand, and it's X| . I have gone through education too, and I've seen my friends and cousins too, and believe me, it's not as bad as you think. Spoonfeeding is not what the Indian education system is all about. It's about making you learn concepts, not memorise things. It's about making you confident about the real world that you are going into, by instilling in you an ability to probe further, work harder, and see things for yourself. It's about letting you make your own decisions, and learn from others' experiences and your own too. So in my college, Comp Sc dept for example, they taught us C in the first year, and then no other language. People were free to choose whatever language they wanted to implement their project in, as long as it met the specs, it was OK. They could choose to learn no other languages, or learn any number of languages as they wanted. Of course, they could consult the professors in case of difficulties. If you tell me that my college was an IIT, and IITs are the best in India, let me tell you that the situation is not much different in other colleges. There are some differences of course, and each univ/college has its own system. But the principle is the same. Make the student study.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother TeresaI must remind you that my replies in this post are based on my personal experiences and 100% true. Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about making you learn concepts, not memorise things. It's about making you memorize things, not learn concepts. Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about making you confident about the real world that you are going into, by instilling in you an ability to probe further, work harder, and see things for yourself. Totally wrong, IMO. Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about letting you make your own decisions, and learn from others' experiences and your own too. This is true, admittedly. I have chosen my own path, and I'm happy. Rohit Sinha wrote: There are some differences of course, and each univ/college has its own system. But the principle is the same. Make the student study. Make the student study whatever is in the f***ing text book and do nothing else. If the student knows that something in the book is wrong (errors do creep in) or that what is being taught is wrong, ask him to shut up*. After all, this is one situation in which the lecturer is assured of the support of the majority of the students. If the student wants to give a talk about some new technology, stifle him (not directly, of course). * Of course, no lecturer has told me to shut up directly (it's too dangerous), but that is what they say IWO. [childish whine]I _want_ to get into IIT.[/childish whine] Cheers,
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Do you mean the "Education System", as in the education system, or the programming currliculum that your college has? Certainly not the whole of India- I can't make such a sweeping statement, but *at least* all of TN. And TN is supposed to be the best for college education. :(
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: And TN is supposed to be the best for college education. :laugh: sez who? Just because there are a cudzillion and a dozen colleges over there, it's the best? What a joke!
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa -
I must remind you that my replies in this post are based on my personal experiences and 100% true. Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about making you learn concepts, not memorise things. It's about making you memorize things, not learn concepts. Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about making you confident about the real world that you are going into, by instilling in you an ability to probe further, work harder, and see things for yourself. Totally wrong, IMO. Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about letting you make your own decisions, and learn from others' experiences and your own too. This is true, admittedly. I have chosen my own path, and I'm happy. Rohit Sinha wrote: There are some differences of course, and each univ/college has its own system. But the principle is the same. Make the student study. Make the student study whatever is in the f***ing text book and do nothing else. If the student knows that something in the book is wrong (errors do creep in) or that what is being taught is wrong, ask him to shut up*. After all, this is one situation in which the lecturer is assured of the support of the majority of the students. If the student wants to give a talk about some new technology, stifle him (not directly, of course). * Of course, no lecturer has told me to shut up directly (it's too dangerous), but that is what they say IWO. [childish whine]I _want_ to get into IIT.[/childish whine] Cheers,
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: I must remind you that my replies in this post are based on my personal experiences and 100% true. OK, so maybe your experience was bad. Or maybe not, but you don't realise it. See my reply below. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: It's about making you memorize things, not learn concepts. I remember your post a few months back about how the Indian education system sucks. You went on and on in that post about how they don't teach you Java, C#, C++, this, that, and what not. Can you now see why they don't concentrate on teaching you languages, but algos; not syntax, but logic? Because they don't want you to memorise things, but learn concepts. They want you to learn how to think logically, and take on whatever comes your way. Remember how you used to solve maths problems in school, and even college? You are told a very few basic theorems, and are asked to solve so many problems, based on real life situations, even. In every branch of science, you are asked to learn the basics, and then are asked to solve problems which seem like scaling the everest with the help of a small nail and hammer. But they equip you aptly for the real world. Learn to appreciate these things. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about making you confident about the real world that you are going into, by instilling in you an ability to probe further, work harder, and see things for yourself. Totally wrong, IMO. See my reply to your statement above, if you still think so. If you still aren't convinced, I can only ask you to wait a few years, till you have been in the real world for some time. A child who gets his meals on time in home and finds his room clean doesn't appreciate what his parents are doing to him when they ask him to keep his room clean, or when they ask him to do some shopping for the kitchen, or... You get the picture. You don't get prepared for the real world by being given a lot of money, but by being taught how to make a lot of money. Similarly you don't get prepared for the world by being taught a lot of vocational courses, as in other countries, but by teaching how to acquire those skills. Not go into a specific field, but let you adapt yourself to any one. Not learn the syntax of a few languages, but think logically and then pick up the syntax as and when the need arises. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Make the student study whatever is in th
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: I must remind you that my replies in this post are based on my personal experiences and 100% true. OK, so maybe your experience was bad. Or maybe not, but you don't realise it. See my reply below. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: It's about making you memorize things, not learn concepts. I remember your post a few months back about how the Indian education system sucks. You went on and on in that post about how they don't teach you Java, C#, C++, this, that, and what not. Can you now see why they don't concentrate on teaching you languages, but algos; not syntax, but logic? Because they don't want you to memorise things, but learn concepts. They want you to learn how to think logically, and take on whatever comes your way. Remember how you used to solve maths problems in school, and even college? You are told a very few basic theorems, and are asked to solve so many problems, based on real life situations, even. In every branch of science, you are asked to learn the basics, and then are asked to solve problems which seem like scaling the everest with the help of a small nail and hammer. But they equip you aptly for the real world. Learn to appreciate these things. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Rohit Sinha wrote: It's about making you confident about the real world that you are going into, by instilling in you an ability to probe further, work harder, and see things for yourself. Totally wrong, IMO. See my reply to your statement above, if you still think so. If you still aren't convinced, I can only ask you to wait a few years, till you have been in the real world for some time. A child who gets his meals on time in home and finds his room clean doesn't appreciate what his parents are doing to him when they ask him to keep his room clean, or when they ask him to do some shopping for the kitchen, or... You get the picture. You don't get prepared for the real world by being given a lot of money, but by being taught how to make a lot of money. Similarly you don't get prepared for the world by being taught a lot of vocational courses, as in other countries, but by teaching how to acquire those skills. Not go into a specific field, but let you adapt yourself to any one. Not learn the syntax of a few languages, but think logically and then pick up the syntax as and when the need arises. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Make the student study whatever is in th
Rohit Sinha wrote: I remember your post a few months back about how the Indian education system sucks. So how come you didn't reply, esp since I'd notified you by private mail? ;) Rohit Sinha wrote: went on and on in that post about how they don't teach you Java, C#, C++, this, that, and what not. Can you now see why they don't concentrate on teaching you languages, but algos; not syntax, but logic? No. No algos taught. The ones that were thought were pathetic. X| No implementation, just a set of simple algos. Rohit Sinha wrote: Learn to appreciate these things. You got me there. :-D Rohit Sinha wrote: The text books are well chosen most of the time. Only rarely, and even in those cases, what we study (remember, I say study, not learn) is nothing beyond that. Rohit Sinha wrote: I think you chose a wrong college. Yes. X| :mad: You know what the problem with both of us is? I crib too much. You studied in an IIT. Don't get me wrong here- I'm not saying it's bad that you studied in an IIT, I'm just saying you're out of touch (or at least out of sync ) with the rest of the colleges. I guess I'll shut up and stop whining, esp since I got a job. :|
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Rohit Sinha wrote: I remember your post a few months back about how the Indian education system sucks. So how come you didn't reply, esp since I'd notified you by private mail? ;) Rohit Sinha wrote: went on and on in that post about how they don't teach you Java, C#, C++, this, that, and what not. Can you now see why they don't concentrate on teaching you languages, but algos; not syntax, but logic? No. No algos taught. The ones that were thought were pathetic. X| No implementation, just a set of simple algos. Rohit Sinha wrote: Learn to appreciate these things. You got me there. :-D Rohit Sinha wrote: The text books are well chosen most of the time. Only rarely, and even in those cases, what we study (remember, I say study, not learn) is nothing beyond that. Rohit Sinha wrote: I think you chose a wrong college. Yes. X| :mad: You know what the problem with both of us is? I crib too much. You studied in an IIT. Don't get me wrong here- I'm not saying it's bad that you studied in an IIT, I'm just saying you're out of touch (or at least out of sync ) with the rest of the colleges. I guess I'll shut up and stop whining, esp since I got a job. :|
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: So how come you didn't reply, esp since I'd notified you by private mail? I sent you a reply to that mail, telling you that I may not be able to respond in a timely manner. Which is what happened. I got a chance to reply yesterday. ;P Vikram Punathambekar wrote: I'm not saying it's bad that you studied in an IIT, I'm just saying you're out of touch (or at least out of sync ) with the rest of the colleges. No, I'm not out of touch with the situation. I think you are being too pessimistic. I know that there are a lot of bad teachers and bad professors out there. But that doesn't mean the education system is bad. It does mean that the selection process for the teachers is bad, however. Good teachers are not rewarded properly, so they have no incentive to work hard. These days a person becomes a teacher only when he/she gets no other job. But the education system, as I have outlined in my previous post, has a lot of good points, which make it a very good system, in my opinion. Yes, I graduated from one of the IITs, the best engineering and technical colleges in India. And my college had a lot of facilities. We had very good professors, who really knew their stuff. The library of my college is the largest technical library in the whole Asia. We had very good computer labs, which were open 24 hours for the students, and there were more computers than students. There was no need for us to have our own computers (apart from playing games, watching porn, etc), simply because the labs offered much more. But the system was still the same as in the rest of India. We had to go to classes. Attendence was compulsory. Professors were gods. Girls automatically got good grades. Textbooks, exams, tests, assignments, everything. I have gone through the same things that you are now going through, believe me. The only difference was that I got good facilities and professors, while you maybe didn't. You get your assignments in the class, I used to get them in my email. But doing fancy things don't make a system good or bad. And facilities and professors are always determined by how much funding the college has and how serious it is about producing good people. Nothing to do with the education system. You are confused big time here methinks. IITs produce good technicians and scientists not because they invent a whole new teaching methodology, but because of the screening process (the IITJEE) that students have to go through to g
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Rama Krishna wrote: The best programmers % wise I have seen come from East Europe - Russia, Romania, Croatia, etc. Do you think there is a specific reason for this? -Nick Parker
Yes,it is: The school system in Romania is based on the thoretical part of software so after finishing college, we have a very strong base in computer science fundamentals. Bye, Orbital^ ...the night is long ... but not long enought to do some real coding ...
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: So how come you didn't reply, esp since I'd notified you by private mail? I sent you a reply to that mail, telling you that I may not be able to respond in a timely manner. Which is what happened. I got a chance to reply yesterday. ;P Vikram Punathambekar wrote: I'm not saying it's bad that you studied in an IIT, I'm just saying you're out of touch (or at least out of sync ) with the rest of the colleges. No, I'm not out of touch with the situation. I think you are being too pessimistic. I know that there are a lot of bad teachers and bad professors out there. But that doesn't mean the education system is bad. It does mean that the selection process for the teachers is bad, however. Good teachers are not rewarded properly, so they have no incentive to work hard. These days a person becomes a teacher only when he/she gets no other job. But the education system, as I have outlined in my previous post, has a lot of good points, which make it a very good system, in my opinion. Yes, I graduated from one of the IITs, the best engineering and technical colleges in India. And my college had a lot of facilities. We had very good professors, who really knew their stuff. The library of my college is the largest technical library in the whole Asia. We had very good computer labs, which were open 24 hours for the students, and there were more computers than students. There was no need for us to have our own computers (apart from playing games, watching porn, etc), simply because the labs offered much more. But the system was still the same as in the rest of India. We had to go to classes. Attendence was compulsory. Professors were gods. Girls automatically got good grades. Textbooks, exams, tests, assignments, everything. I have gone through the same things that you are now going through, believe me. The only difference was that I got good facilities and professors, while you maybe didn't. You get your assignments in the class, I used to get them in my email. But doing fancy things don't make a system good or bad. And facilities and professors are always determined by how much funding the college has and how serious it is about producing good people. Nothing to do with the education system. You are confused big time here methinks. IITs produce good technicians and scientists not because they invent a whole new teaching methodology, but because of the screening process (the IITJEE) that students have to go through to g
Rohit Sinha wrote: I think you are being too pessimistic. Yes. I'd rather we stop this discussion about the Indian education system- not because I'm exasperated with you, but because I'm exasperated with myself. I'm becoming obsessed with it. Plus, now that I've got placed, I can start doing something *really* worthwhile. Just curious, but that smart chap you mentioned who's working with SAPI- is he your own brother?
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Rohit Sinha wrote: I think you are being too pessimistic. Yes. I'd rather we stop this discussion about the Indian education system- not because I'm exasperated with you, but because I'm exasperated with myself. I'm becoming obsessed with it. Plus, now that I've got placed, I can start doing something *really* worthwhile. Just curious, but that smart chap you mentioned who's working with SAPI- is he your own brother?
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: I'd rather we stop this discussion about the Indian education system OK. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Just curious, but that smart chap you mentioned who's working with SAPI- is he your own brother? Yes, he's my younger brother. He's just completed his 2nd year in Comp Engg.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa