lame jobs

Navin

Daniel Turini wrote: The base point of my reasoning is, “technology improvements will allow the society to get most of its needs without working”. If you do not agree with it, do not even bother to read the rest of my text. What about food? Sure, they have replicators in Star Trek, but I have a feeling the technology is a long way off. And of course, somebody has to work to maintain and improve technology. We'll always have to work one way or the other. (btw, I read to the end of your post anyway.) "When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein

Navin

No, the question is why do *you* put up with long working hours and lame pay? If you don't like your job, quit and do something else. If you aren't willing to do that, then it means you value something else (your location, your field of work, etc.) more than having a decent job or good pay. Which is ultimately your decision to make. As Mark pointed out, most software engineers make a lot more than those in other professions. I don't buy all this crap about people losing their jobs becuase they are moving to India, etc... the jobs I've seen move down there are maintenance or other grunt work. Most corporations aren't going to just up and move all of their trade secrets and intellectual property offshore. "When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein

Daniel Turini

Food? Machines soon will be able to take care of a whole farm. Somebody has to work to maintain and improve technology (actually, improve for what? money?), but will this be able to employ 6,000,000,000 people? Or will we need only 100,000 (choose the number you want) jobs for this? Where will the other 5,999,900,000 people work? And these 100,000 lucky guys will receive all the money in the world. What about the rest? You can do it on anything you choose - from .bat to .net - A customer

David Wulff

Interesting thought - if replicators were a reality would they would elmininate the need for money?

David Wulff

"Sanity is just a state of mind, insanity is a developed past-time for Mr Wulff" - Jonny Newman

Gary Wheeler

I think you need to ease down on the medication there, son.

Software Zen: delete this;

Alvaro Mendez

Marc Clifton wrote: If you didn't want your three bedroom, two car garage house, if you could have succeeded in your first marriage and learned the lessons so that in your second you didn't need to go to counseling, if you only had had a vascectomy so the three kids, private schooling and planning for college didn't have to happen, and if you didn't want that sailboat, SUV, second vehicle, entertainment center, deluxe cable subscription, and, oh yes, if you took care of yourself, ate right, exercised and didn't smoke, you wouldn't be paying those insurance premiums and you wouldn't have to work yourself to death paying for all the rest! Damn straight! I blame the lottery-number-picking machine. It never picks the same 6 numbers I pick! :-) Marc Clifton wrote: Come on. Programmers are ridiculously overpaid as it is! Compared to who? How much should a programmer in the US make? If programmers are ridiculously overpaid, then what about professional atheletes? Marc Clifton wrote: And the mistakes were yours to begin with!!! The programmer made the mistakes, but why weren't they discovered before the product went out the door? In many cases it is management's fault for not QAing the thing well enough. Marc Clifton wrote: But programmer getting sued? Hardly ever happens. The programmer is often like the brick layer. Do you sue a brick layer or the company you contracted to build your house? Regards, Alvaro

Hey! It compiles! Ship it.

jhaga

Buy a few chickens and a piece of land and grow your own food. Stop being a headless consumer and find peace of mind instead. jhaga --------------------------------- I have discovered that all human evil comes from this, man's being unable to sit still in a room. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)

KaRl

Excellent concept! Productivity gains finally conducting to the extinction of work...a peaceful revolution. However, knowing the human nature, we would have to find something else to polarize our interests and give us a reason to live. We can't stay doing nothing.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Gary Kirkham

Daniel Turini wrote: technology improvements will allow the society to get most of its needs without working A majority of people aren't satisfied with just having their needs met. They want more...they want their wants met also. Even if money was eleminated these wants will be met another way, through bartering. Which is still good ole capitalism. You may have addressed this, but then, you told me not to read any farther. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks

Daniel Turini

Needs or wants is just a matter of definition. I can extend the meaning of "needs" to include "wants". The central point on my reasoning is the productivity being slowly increased to the point of working elimination... You can do it on anything you choose - from .bat to .net - A customer

Marc Clifton

Alvaro Mendez wrote: It never picks the same 6 numbers I pick! Hey! I have that problem too! Alvaro Mendez wrote: If programmers are ridiculously overpaid, then what about professional atheletes? Touche! I feel another rant swelling up from deep inside. Must resist... Alvaro Mendez wrote: How much should a programmer in the US make? Less. Umm, less than teachers and daycare workers. But they should get paid more anyways. Alvaro Mendez wrote: In many cases it is management's fault for not QAing the thing well enough. I like taking the easy way out. It's everyone's fault. Never mind what the problem is. Alvaro Mendez wrote: Do you sue a brick layer or the company you contracted to build your house? Depends on who has more money. Usually the company. Then the bricklayer gets fired. I don't read too often in the paper that so-and-so-many programmers got fired at Microsoft for writing server software with security holes. How many billions of dollars has that cost the world in lost productivity when some moron writes a virus to take advantage of a hole? There's simply no accountability in this industry. Marc Latest AAL Article My blog Join my forum!

J Dunlap

Marc Clifton wrote: Hey! I have that problem too! :laugh: Marc Clifton wrote: Less. Umm, less than teachers and daycare workers. But they should get paid more anyways. I'd say, it all depends on what the quality of their "workmanship" is like. Marc Clifton wrote: I like taking the easy way out. It's everyone's fault. Never mind what the problem is. :laugh: Too often, that's what people try to do. Scatter the blame far enough, and no one can point it at anyone in particular.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

ravingcoder

is it really on decline? there're sweat shops everywhere

ravingcoder

true enough, first, we don't need fashion - but we definitely need to do actually live a life

ravingcoder

Navin wrote: don't buy all this crap about people losing their jobs becuase they are moving to India yes smart boy

ravingcoder

stop buying from nike

ravingcoder

good for you, that sort of put you in position to legalize that people should bike to work, like their job, do 80 hours weeks and no paid for overtime to make your boss rich.

peterchen

My boss doesn't work any less odd hours than I do. I know how my boss lives, where he goes for vacation, where he usually goes out when he does. Not exactly what I or you call "rich". Maybe successful - but that's another successful than the one in your vocabulary. I earn enough money not to have to have to think about today or tomorrow. I can buy the things I need, and the things I like. I bike to work because I like it. You can smoke your prejudice of greed in a pipe, Sir. Add some weed, to relax.

"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

jdunlap wrote: I'd say, it all depends on what the quality of their "workmanship" is like. That's the problem. No matter how hard they work, they're undervalued. Big time. A close friend of mine was working in Teaching until a couple of years ago and she was earning less than half what I was. Despite that, arguably she was contributing far more to society (she's better qualified than I am as well!). It's a mess. :confused: Anna :rose: Homepage | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In

ravingcoder

yea, just that you like to stay in that cubicle 24 hours a day doesnt mean that others do - there're many other who just want to live a life. loosen up and get a life