Thank you Roger :-)
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I have been reading the various posts that Roger and others wrote, and I finally realized he is right about Linux. The Gartner report has really changed my mind about MS in the Server market. I have already switched over all my company's servers from Windows 2000 to Linux because they would be down at least twice a week due to patches and hotfixes that needed to be applied. As of right now I'm so relieved that I did this, as it was quite easy to switch over my Active Server Pages to php with a program include in my distribution. Everything is running great. I'm now looking at making linux the desktop OS. I would now like to thank Roger for being persistant and informing me about Linux. The down time has now been eliminated from my company and that is great in this economic down turn. Plus I don't have to pay MS all those server license fees. Roger I hope you continue in your efforts, because at first I found you extremely annoying and brash, but I found that you are right. It takes an emotional effort to switch from something like MS after using it so long to Linux, and the only way I was able to do this was through your constant presentation of the facts. This finally made me realize that it is my responsiblity to make sure I have a secrure OS. If you hadn't informed and challenged me, I still would be an MS user. So I would encourage you not to get discouraged at some people's responses becuase they need to be informed, and nothing less than what you did will change them.
I'm curious about your pre-linux setup. What MS software were you running? Obviously you had a 2000 server, did it have Exchange on? >Plus I don't have to pay MS all those server license fees. Heck, no wonder you changed over. If I had to pay my companys licencing fees then I'd want to switch too :-) Michael :-)
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I have been reading the various posts that Roger and others wrote, and I finally realized he is right about Linux. The Gartner report has really changed my mind about MS in the Server market. I have already switched over all my company's servers from Windows 2000 to Linux because they would be down at least twice a week due to patches and hotfixes that needed to be applied. As of right now I'm so relieved that I did this, as it was quite easy to switch over my Active Server Pages to php with a program include in my distribution. Everything is running great. I'm now looking at making linux the desktop OS. I would now like to thank Roger for being persistant and informing me about Linux. The down time has now been eliminated from my company and that is great in this economic down turn. Plus I don't have to pay MS all those server license fees. Roger I hope you continue in your efforts, because at first I found you extremely annoying and brash, but I found that you are right. It takes an emotional effort to switch from something like MS after using it so long to Linux, and the only way I was able to do this was through your constant presentation of the facts. This finally made me realize that it is my responsiblity to make sure I have a secrure OS. If you hadn't informed and challenged me, I still would be an MS user. So I would encourage you not to get discouraged at some people's responses becuase they need to be informed, and nothing less than what you did will change them.
To me it sounds like you are one of those linux-dudes faking to be a newly converted ;P - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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I have been reading the various posts that Roger and others wrote, and I finally realized he is right about Linux. The Gartner report has really changed my mind about MS in the Server market. I have already switched over all my company's servers from Windows 2000 to Linux because they would be down at least twice a week due to patches and hotfixes that needed to be applied. As of right now I'm so relieved that I did this, as it was quite easy to switch over my Active Server Pages to php with a program include in my distribution. Everything is running great. I'm now looking at making linux the desktop OS. I would now like to thank Roger for being persistant and informing me about Linux. The down time has now been eliminated from my company and that is great in this economic down turn. Plus I don't have to pay MS all those server license fees. Roger I hope you continue in your efforts, because at first I found you extremely annoying and brash, but I found that you are right. It takes an emotional effort to switch from something like MS after using it so long to Linux, and the only way I was able to do this was through your constant presentation of the facts. This finally made me realize that it is my responsiblity to make sure I have a secrure OS. If you hadn't informed and challenged me, I still would be an MS user. So I would encourage you not to get discouraged at some people's responses becuase they need to be informed, and nothing less than what you did will change them.
I would like to know what applications you were using on the Windows servers. Since you are on CodeProject, I would assume that you program in C++ on Windows. So, did you just convert your mailserver/webserver? or did you
actually manageto port the applications that you developed? Please give a detailed reply on the transition so that more of us get converted and save costs. :) - Thomas -
I have been reading the various posts that Roger and others wrote, and I finally realized he is right about Linux. The Gartner report has really changed my mind about MS in the Server market. I have already switched over all my company's servers from Windows 2000 to Linux because they would be down at least twice a week due to patches and hotfixes that needed to be applied. As of right now I'm so relieved that I did this, as it was quite easy to switch over my Active Server Pages to php with a program include in my distribution. Everything is running great. I'm now looking at making linux the desktop OS. I would now like to thank Roger for being persistant and informing me about Linux. The down time has now been eliminated from my company and that is great in this economic down turn. Plus I don't have to pay MS all those server license fees. Roger I hope you continue in your efforts, because at first I found you extremely annoying and brash, but I found that you are right. It takes an emotional effort to switch from something like MS after using it so long to Linux, and the only way I was able to do this was through your constant presentation of the facts. This finally made me realize that it is my responsiblity to make sure I have a secrure OS. If you hadn't informed and challenged me, I still would be an MS user. So I would encourage you not to get discouraged at some people's responses becuase they need to be informed, and nothing less than what you did will change them.
I would never turn to Linux on my desktop but as a Internet webserver I find it much more suitable than IIS: - you have to weight in all factors and one of the facts is that a lot of people simply put HATE Microsoft, therefore making their products a target for hacking. - cost. You can get a dedicated RAQ server ( with Redhat Linux ) for under $100 a month where a Windows box costs at least three times that much. Actually I found myself in that position a couple of months ago and switched from my $450/month Windows 2000 server to a RAQ4. - performance. Sure MS has won a lot of performance tests with C++-based ISAPI modules, however for us deadly people who uses simple ASP script etc PHP on a Linux box is a lot faster and more scalable. - Also to install IIS you need IE 5.x??? The problem with IIS is that it's so big ( and dependent on so many DLL:s here and there ) that now MS simply can't handle it. I mean how can one else explain how the $DATA security issue ( or whatever i was called ) last fall got through( a MS developer used it for debugging but it slipped through into the release code ) - and gave users access to all the ASP sourcecode. I really think MS should leave the desktop/server integration track and develop a prompt based server - with the option to load a GUI if one would like so. Just check free memory after a clean Win 2000 installation and laugh... Don't get me wrong - I love ASP - for example I have written the banner rotating script used here at CodeGuru ( download at http://www.aspcode.net ) and my site ironically enough is about ASP - but runs on a Linux machibe with PHP...
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So your answer to the second part of my post was "luck"? David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
Looks like we know Rogers 'alias' now. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Perhaps ASP2PHP...
Its not very good - I tried it when trying to translate these ASP forums to PHP and gave up with that tool as it only converted parts of the ASP, other parts it was haveing a lot of trouble with. It was better just to code by hand the equiv PHP code where the ASP code was. My forums are at here, demo here. Really I don't believe he converted the ASP code to PHP, for things like database accessing there are cosiderable difficultlys and differences.
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So your answer to the second part of my post was "luck"? David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
I actually evaluated Linux on a test server for about a week, and then I deployed department by department, through out the company. I did this so I could replase MS specific products. It was quite easy because we don't use MS SQL Server(Oracle is what we use). Roger has posted here for a few months, and I decided to try linux on an test basis, just so I could prove him wrong. It worked so well that I just completed the switch on the server side. So overall it took me about 3 weeks. :-) I am evaluating Linux as a desktop enviroment, but I will have to be more careful because I will have to train employees, or modify Gnome/KDE so it is simple to use.
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To me it sounds like you are one of those linux-dudes faking to be a newly converted ;P - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
I actually did this because I was under pressure from management to increase the uptime. I get nervous everytime I have to take the server offline to install a patch. I work at a medium size company with 400 employees and they can't do their jobs when the servers are down, and in this economy we cant afford to pay people to be idle for 3 hours every week(plus our customers may go to a competitor :-( ). I didn't like going to meetings where I was interogated on why we had to stop production. Going to anouther propriatary OS was not an option because we already spent the budget for windows licenses. I didn't think linux could be an answer because I didn't think Linux was Enterprise ready, but Rogers persistance gave me the idea to try.
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I actually evaluated Linux on a test server for about a week, and then I deployed department by department, through out the company. I did this so I could replase MS specific products. It was quite easy because we don't use MS SQL Server(Oracle is what we use). Roger has posted here for a few months, and I decided to try linux on an test basis, just so I could prove him wrong. It worked so well that I just completed the switch on the server side. So overall it took me about 3 weeks. :-) I am evaluating Linux as a desktop enviroment, but I will have to be more careful because I will have to train employees, or modify Gnome/KDE so it is simple to use.
Even so, 3 weeks is exceptionally fast for rolling out a new platform. I guess you don't believe in testing for all situations? That should take at least a month for any experienced sys admin. I would hate to be in your shoes when you're hit with your first problem, whatever it may be. Trust me when I say extensive planning before deployment pays itself back with interest. I'll give you another three weeks before you'll need to get out the manuals... David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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I actually did this because I was under pressure from management to increase the uptime. I get nervous everytime I have to take the server offline to install a patch. I work at a medium size company with 400 employees and they can't do their jobs when the servers are down, and in this economy we cant afford to pay people to be idle for 3 hours every week(plus our customers may go to a competitor :-( ). I didn't like going to meetings where I was interogated on why we had to stop production. Going to anouther propriatary OS was not an option because we already spent the budget for windows licenses. I didn't think linux could be an answer because I didn't think Linux was Enterprise ready, but Rogers persistance gave me the idea to try.
I get nervous every time I have to take the server offline to install a patch There is no difference between Microsoft and Linux in that respect. In fact, Linux developers pride themselves on being able to release frequent patches to resolve security issues. So what you are saying is that you will not keep up to date with the latest Linux hotfixes and patches? That would require you to bring the servers offline too, you know. You should read my other messages from a couple of days ago, regarding people who believe that just by using Linux they alleviate the issue of frequent patches. Linux is no more secure than Windows NT on a day-to-day basis. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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I have been reading the various posts that Roger and others wrote, and I finally realized he is right about Linux. The Gartner report has really changed my mind about MS in the Server market. I have already switched over all my company's servers from Windows 2000 to Linux because they would be down at least twice a week due to patches and hotfixes that needed to be applied. As of right now I'm so relieved that I did this, as it was quite easy to switch over my Active Server Pages to php with a program include in my distribution. Everything is running great. I'm now looking at making linux the desktop OS. I would now like to thank Roger for being persistant and informing me about Linux. The down time has now been eliminated from my company and that is great in this economic down turn. Plus I don't have to pay MS all those server license fees. Roger I hope you continue in your efforts, because at first I found you extremely annoying and brash, but I found that you are right. It takes an emotional effort to switch from something like MS after using it so long to Linux, and the only way I was able to do this was through your constant presentation of the facts. This finally made me realize that it is my responsiblity to make sure I have a secrure OS. If you hadn't informed and challenged me, I still would be an MS user. So I would encourage you not to get discouraged at some people's responses becuase they need to be informed, and nothing less than what you did will change them.
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Looks like we know Rogers 'alias' now. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Frightening - I was thinking the same thing. Jon Sagara Sagara Software
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I get nervous every time I have to take the server offline to install a patch There is no difference between Microsoft and Linux in that respect. In fact, Linux developers pride themselves on being able to release frequent patches to resolve security issues. So what you are saying is that you will not keep up to date with the latest Linux hotfixes and patches? That would require you to bring the servers offline too, you know. You should read my other messages from a couple of days ago, regarding people who believe that just by using Linux they alleviate the issue of frequent patches. Linux is no more secure than Windows NT on a day-to-day basis. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
And everything on Linux is beta versions, so they get a new version 0.9xx, to install, every other day. :laugh: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Frightening - I was thinking the same thing. Jon Sagara Sagara Software
All these messages remind me of two very popular personalities of the CodeProject Lounge... remember Sarah and Hassan?? ;) ;) -- LuisR -------- Luis Alonso Ramos Chihuahua, Mexico www.luisalonsoramos.com
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And everything on Linux is beta versions, so they get a new version 0.9xx, to install, every other day. :laugh: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
:-P
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Even so, 3 weeks is exceptionally fast for rolling out a new platform. I guess you don't believe in testing for all situations? That should take at least a month for any experienced sys admin. I would hate to be in your shoes when you're hit with your first problem, whatever it may be. Trust me when I say extensive planning before deployment pays itself back with interest. I'll give you another three weeks before you'll need to get out the manuals... David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
The desktop is still Windows, I only installed Linux on the servers. I also know that it can't get any worse than Windows so I'm satisfied with my decision. That Gartner report just proved my decision, and if I do have problems(I doubt I will) I'll just show it to my boss.
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I get nervous every time I have to take the server offline to install a patch There is no difference between Microsoft and Linux in that respect. In fact, Linux developers pride themselves on being able to release frequent patches to resolve security issues. So what you are saying is that you will not keep up to date with the latest Linux hotfixes and patches? That would require you to bring the servers offline too, you know. You should read my other messages from a couple of days ago, regarding people who believe that just by using Linux they alleviate the issue of frequent patches. Linux is no more secure than Windows NT on a day-to-day basis. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
On linux you don't have to reboot when you install a patch, plus I cluster all important servers for redundancy. I also read that insurers raised rates for people using NT. I don't know if Linux is right for a small shop that doesn't need high up time, but I know my company needs it. The reason we went with Win2k was that we read that the " five nine" uptimes were possible with that OS. Unfortunatly because of the virus/worm situation my corp didn't see that and we had to switch to linux. The license model on Windows changes on October to the subscription model so we felt it was the best time to switch. I guess if I ran a small operation with 1-30 people(with a good cash flow), than Windows might be good because Windows Servers have a less steep learning curve because it's mostly point and click, and if didn't have to provide mission critical reliability. So for like a family resturant or a couple of programmers writting apps for windows those servers are good.
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Looks like we know Rogers 'alias' now. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
No, I'm not 'Roger'. Please don't be mean. Thanks.
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On linux you don't have to reboot when you install a patch, plus I cluster all important servers for redundancy. I also read that insurers raised rates for people using NT. I don't know if Linux is right for a small shop that doesn't need high up time, but I know my company needs it. The reason we went with Win2k was that we read that the " five nine" uptimes were possible with that OS. Unfortunatly because of the virus/worm situation my corp didn't see that and we had to switch to linux. The license model on Windows changes on October to the subscription model so we felt it was the best time to switch. I guess if I ran a small operation with 1-30 people(with a good cash flow), than Windows might be good because Windows Servers have a less steep learning curve because it's mostly point and click, and if didn't have to provide mission critical reliability. So for like a family resturant or a couple of programmers writting apps for windows those servers are good.
Aaron, or whoever you are, Why on earth are you spending so much time defending yourself ? With switching all you servers over to linux I would think that alone would be a full time job ! Lord you've got enough rationalizations here to write a small novel.
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Gee, isn't linux great! I think I'll throw like 7 years of VC++/Windows development out of the window and go learn how to code for linux too. James Spibey Well cover me in honey and throw me to the lesbians!
"Well cover me in honey and throw me to the lesbians!" in your dreams ;) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"