Bizarre experience
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:wtf:!! I don't know Christopher, maybe you shouldn't have publicized this. What if that manager is a part time programmer. A little Google work and he's got your license plate # and your name! The idea of multiple employees standing in an empty restaurant yelling at the customer to do their work is way too amusing. One of them wasn't John Cleese was he?
Stephen Owens wrote: One of them wasn't John Cleese was he? Hmmm. I shifted dimensions and ended up in Faulty Towers? :-) Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
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My first response was "Unbelievable!" But on (relatively) sober reflection I realized that it is not all that unusual. I was one of those minimum wage grunts once upon a time; my tables were spotless within 60 seconds of becoming vacant. And my customers got a heartfelt "Thank you!" as they walked out the door. When I worked as a mechanic at a service station (remember those?), if a gas customer waited two minutes for someone to pump the gas, it was too long. If the attendant was busy with another customer, I dropped my tools and ran - literally - to assist the waiting customer. And I washed the windows, emptied the ash tray, checked the tires and everything under the hood; no charge for topping off the radiator. Where did we go wrong? The Manager may direct my day to day activities, but the customer will always be the boss in my mind - that's who pays my salary, regardless of who signs the check. Christopher Duncan wrote: Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... Can I interest you in something wool? :baaaa!: "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: Where did we go wrong? We went wrong when you joined a union, demanded health insurance, higher wages, sick time, paid vacations, maternity leave, and so on and so forth (ah, now maybe that's what defines a country as not being third world) and after getting all those things, you still sued the company for giving you cancer when you worked with all those carcinogens at the gas station, and your tree hugger pro-environmental group that you contributed money to is suing the your company as well for dumping all that old oil into the nearby watershed. "You", not meaning "you" personally, but the opposite of "we". Of course, a better explanation is simply "greed". But greed doesn't explain everything away. Marc Latest AAL Article My blog Join my forum!
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I thought this story[^] might entertain you guys. There seems to be such a complete disconnect these days between a company and its customers. That, coupled with the pacification of the American consumer (maybe your country, too?) led to a bizarre incident this weekend involving a sub sandwich, an aggressive manager, an uncleaned table and an abusive customer attitude. Are company attitudes about their customers out of hand? Are people really such :baaaa!:? I just couldn't believe what was happening. Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... :rolleyes: Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
LOL OK the manager was/is an idiot. We are all agreed with that. I think that putting 'Thank You' signs on rubbish containers is more than just cutting costs. I believe it is about getting customers to believe they are actually part of the business, and are helping in a small way. Possiblly some people actaully gain pleasure in doing what they think is the right thing to do. Personally I never clean a table at one of those places, as I believe I'm doing someone else out of a job. In business you must always consider the customer as the boss. And you endeavour to provide what the customer needs or wants. What to me this story highlights is how general business practices have erroded. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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I thought this story[^] might entertain you guys. There seems to be such a complete disconnect these days between a company and its customers. That, coupled with the pacification of the American consumer (maybe your country, too?) led to a bizarre incident this weekend involving a sub sandwich, an aggressive manager, an uncleaned table and an abusive customer attitude. Are company attitudes about their customers out of hand? Are people really such :baaaa!:? I just couldn't believe what was happening. Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... :rolleyes: Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
On a side note, don’t worry about the license plate: When I did not have a son and could take the risk a traffic struggle (some people here drive carrying weapons), for a few times I met people who I would like to be *really* angry, so I did the following thing: 1. Get down from my car 2. Get to the front of his/her car (so I could be clearly noticed) and with a very calm and quiet face took note of the license plate. People had the same reaction than you and my answer normally was either an evasive one like he did to you, or "I work on the traffic dept., I'm on a vacation right. I don't want to talk to you right now, but as soon as I get back to work, you'll get some tickets at your home, then we can talk“. Man, people got really worried. A woman once said: “Oh, yeah, so I will take your license plate number, too!” And I said: “If I see you doing this you’ll receive two tickets more.” And she got into her car, very angry and revolted, saying she would call a lawyer because I was abusing from my authority. Not a single person asked for some kind of ID: they were all doing traffic violations and thought they were on a bad luck day. Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. -- Bruce Schneier By the way, dog_spawn isn't a nickname - it is my name with an underscore instead of a space. -- dog_spawn
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LOL OK the manager was/is an idiot. We are all agreed with that. I think that putting 'Thank You' signs on rubbish containers is more than just cutting costs. I believe it is about getting customers to believe they are actually part of the business, and are helping in a small way. Possiblly some people actaully gain pleasure in doing what they think is the right thing to do. Personally I never clean a table at one of those places, as I believe I'm doing someone else out of a job. In business you must always consider the customer as the boss. And you endeavour to provide what the customer needs or wants. What to me this story highlights is how general business practices have erroded. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
ColinDavies wrote: What to me this story highlights is how general business practices have erroded. Yeah, that's pretty much the way I see it. Interestingly enough, however, I believe it presents a significant opportunity to companies savvy enough to recognize it. When the general state of affairs is such that customers are treated with apathy and casual (or active!) disrespect, imagine how much money a company could make by actually catering to customers and treating them like royalty? Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
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I could have sworn the other day I say the tag for it, :baah!: or something like that, but none of my guesses worked. Given my general attitude towards humanity as a whole, I really think it's an icon I should master. :-D Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
Try
: b a a a a ! :
minus the spaces.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Stephen Owens wrote: One of them wasn't John Cleese was he? Hmmm. I shifted dimensions and ended up in Faulty Towers? :-) Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
Ok, try again. The paradigm shift lever is on the left, and the dimension shift lever is on the right.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Ok, try again. The paradigm shift lever is on the left, and the dimension shift lever is on the right.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote: Ok, try again. The paradigm shift lever is on the left, and the dimension shift lever is on the right. But what happens if you're dealing with shiftless people? ;) Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
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It was a mighty temptation... ;) Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
Actually, you could get there tomorrow with a camera and start taking some pictures. If he asks you, say you're a work for a news company and you had this great idea for writing. He'll get really worried :) And if he gets angry, make sure to take a picture from his angry face: you'll be able to show your son in ten years and say "hey, look at how angry this guy got because of your daddy!" Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. -- Bruce Schneier By the way, dog_spawn isn't a nickname - it is my name with an underscore instead of a space. -- dog_spawn
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On a side note, don’t worry about the license plate: When I did not have a son and could take the risk a traffic struggle (some people here drive carrying weapons), for a few times I met people who I would like to be *really* angry, so I did the following thing: 1. Get down from my car 2. Get to the front of his/her car (so I could be clearly noticed) and with a very calm and quiet face took note of the license plate. People had the same reaction than you and my answer normally was either an evasive one like he did to you, or "I work on the traffic dept., I'm on a vacation right. I don't want to talk to you right now, but as soon as I get back to work, you'll get some tickets at your home, then we can talk“. Man, people got really worried. A woman once said: “Oh, yeah, so I will take your license plate number, too!” And I said: “If I see you doing this you’ll receive two tickets more.” And she got into her car, very angry and revolted, saying she would call a lawyer because I was abusing from my authority. Not a single person asked for some kind of ID: they were all doing traffic violations and thought they were on a bad luck day. Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. -- Bruce Schneier By the way, dog_spawn isn't a nickname - it is my name with an underscore instead of a space. -- dog_spawn
Definitely entertaining, but I'm glad you appreciate the inherent risk in getting out of your car. You never know who you're dealing with these days... Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
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I thought this story[^] might entertain you guys. There seems to be such a complete disconnect these days between a company and its customers. That, coupled with the pacification of the American consumer (maybe your country, too?) led to a bizarre incident this weekend involving a sub sandwich, an aggressive manager, an uncleaned table and an abusive customer attitude. Are company attitudes about their customers out of hand? Are people really such :baaaa!:? I just couldn't believe what was happening. Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... :rolleyes: Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
I've been so trained to clean up after myself in those places. When I have lunch at Tim Hortons (donut/coffee/nice lunch place), I try to find the garbage place with "Thank You" on it, but there isn't one! :wtf:. So I leave my tray on my table, and feel very bad about it. Seriously, I do. So, look at me! I'm a :baaaa!: The kindest thing you can do for a stupid person, and for the gene pool, is to let him expire of his own dumb choices. [Roger Wright on stupid people] We're like private member functions [John Theal on R&D] We're figuring out the parent thing as we go though. Kinda like setting up Linux for the first time ya' know... [Nitron]
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I would probably clean my own table if it was not out of my way as it really doesn't both me at all... but if asked to I would say no. As with your friends it is my choice to display courtesy, but the service I paid for does not include my services in return. That reminds me of the opening sequence to Reservoir Dogs. I don't tip. (Well actually I tell a lie, I did tip one waitress when I was on holiday last year because she clearly went above what her job required to ensure I was satisfied.) I don't agree with leaving a set percentage with the bill, and if my credit card arrived back with a tip surcharge on it I would rain all fiery hell down upon the poor sap returning it - after all it is theft without my consent. Christopher Duncan wrote: Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... But what would your dog wear then?! BTW, some nice forums you've using there. ;)
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
I agree - very nice forum. I totally despise the forum SW here. The company is nice though. :) The Ten Commandments For C Programmers
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I thought this story[^] might entertain you guys. There seems to be such a complete disconnect these days between a company and its customers. That, coupled with the pacification of the American consumer (maybe your country, too?) led to a bizarre incident this weekend involving a sub sandwich, an aggressive manager, an uncleaned table and an abusive customer attitude. Are company attitudes about their customers out of hand? Are people really such :baaaa!:? I just couldn't believe what was happening. Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... :rolleyes: Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
Holy low-fat tomato, I just realised you wrote that. While I completely disagree with the store owners attitude, I do normally clean up even after a meal (conditions apply) at Burger King or McDonalds. I just dislike leaving behind a dirty counter, something that is normally handled before I leave at a restaurant or that I do myself at home or as a guest. As for "Thank You", I take it in good spirit (whether it is or not). If the manager was standing by the rubbish bin and I dumped my cartons in it and he said thank you rather than relying on the embossed lid, I would think well (even if he has an MBA). But your chap has lost touch with reality. Worse, many people would have turned, _sheep_ishly gone back to their table and thrown the cartons away feeling duly righted. It is tough because the opposite extreme is being a jerk about it and acting like you own the place. Some good judgement is probably best. If the place is busy and someone is waiting for your table and no cleaner is on hand, take your stuff and chuck it away. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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I would probably clean my own table if it was not out of my way as it really doesn't both me at all... but if asked to I would say no. As with your friends it is my choice to display courtesy, but the service I paid for does not include my services in return. That reminds me of the opening sequence to Reservoir Dogs. I don't tip. (Well actually I tell a lie, I did tip one waitress when I was on holiday last year because she clearly went above what her job required to ensure I was satisfied.) I don't agree with leaving a set percentage with the bill, and if my credit card arrived back with a tip surcharge on it I would rain all fiery hell down upon the poor sap returning it - after all it is theft without my consent. Christopher Duncan wrote: Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... But what would your dog wear then?! BTW, some nice forums you've using there. ;)
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
I just want to say that tipping is not wrong. Mandatory or expected tipping is. Being peer pressured into tipping is wrong. But tipping based on good service is not wrong. Most restaurant waiters don't get a flat fee, or at least the flat fee they get is a token gesture by the restuarant. You are not paying their salary with your meal. Your tips are what they survive on. And yes I have waitered. Naturally this does not apply to fast food joints as there you do pay for the service as part of your meal. You sacrifice quality for speed. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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I just want to say that tipping is not wrong. Mandatory or expected tipping is. Being peer pressured into tipping is wrong. But tipping based on good service is not wrong. Most restaurant waiters don't get a flat fee, or at least the flat fee they get is a token gesture by the restuarant. You are not paying their salary with your meal. Your tips are what they survive on. And yes I have waitered. Naturally this does not apply to fast food joints as there you do pay for the service as part of your meal. You sacrifice quality for speed. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: I just want to say that tipping is not wrong. Mandatory or expected tipping is. Being peer pressured into tipping is wrong. But tipping based on good service is not wrong. My sentiments exactly.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
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I thought this story[^] might entertain you guys. There seems to be such a complete disconnect these days between a company and its customers. That, coupled with the pacification of the American consumer (maybe your country, too?) led to a bizarre incident this weekend involving a sub sandwich, an aggressive manager, an uncleaned table and an abusive customer attitude. Are company attitudes about their customers out of hand? Are people really such :baaaa!:? I just couldn't believe what was happening. Maybe I should sell the leather jacket... :rolleyes: Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
In general I don't think it's asked to much of you to take your tray to where it's collected. As my sister (working at checkin) tends to describe a certain type of customer: they paid for a flight, not the plane. Sure you could go the all-about-money route and say "I don't like it I don't spend my dollars there". What's the problem? is it below your dignity? Are you displeased that "collecting trays at a seedy restaurant" doesn't pay enough to attract someone willing to do it? Are you not willing to pay an extra buck for cleanup? Mad at someone who is just optimizing his balance? Or was it just the owners freak out?
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygen -
Jeff Varszegi wrote: The manager was obviously wrong, but to put "Thank you" on a trash bin is not. I don't think most people see the phrase as an attempt at coercion, but rather as thanks from the business for helping to cut costs. Our perspectives probably differ because I have over a decade of making a living in sales and marketing, and as a result am more aware of the kind of manipulation that goes on each day in the business world. Jeff Varszegi wrote: mighty consultant ... acclaimed works :laugh: Well, not yet, but that's certainly the goal! Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - Show Programming news & notifications
Christopher Duncan wrote: Our perspectives probably differ because I have over a decade of making a living in sales and marketing, and as a result am more aware of the kind of manipulation that goes on each day in the business world. Ah, that explains rude arrogance. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Our perspectives probably differ because I have over a decade of making a living in sales and marketing, and as a result am more aware of the kind of manipulation that goes on each day in the business world. Ah, that explains rude arrogance. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
Tim Craig wrote: Ah, that explains rude arrogance. No, I was born that way. 10 years of marketing just taught me how to pay the rent with it. :-) Tim Craig wrote: At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe. :laugh: Actually, I always thought there was a one to one ratio in that regard... Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
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In general I don't think it's asked to much of you to take your tray to where it's collected. As my sister (working at checkin) tends to describe a certain type of customer: they paid for a flight, not the plane. Sure you could go the all-about-money route and say "I don't like it I don't spend my dollars there". What's the problem? is it below your dignity? Are you displeased that "collecting trays at a seedy restaurant" doesn't pay enough to attract someone willing to do it? Are you not willing to pay an extra buck for cleanup? Mad at someone who is just optimizing his balance? Or was it just the owners freak out?
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenYou voiced a number of reasonable questions, so I'll take a look at them individually. peterchen wrote: What's the problem? is it below your dignity? No, I've scrubbed toilets for a living and whistled a merry little tune while I did so. What I object to is being manipulated and taken advantage of. peterchen wrote: Are you displeased that "collecting trays at a seedy restaurant" doesn't pay enough to attract someone willing to do it? Actually, there used to be a lot of those jobs. They were eliminated once companies realized that with a little training, their customers were stupid enough to do it for free. peterchen wrote: Are you not willing to pay an extra buck for cleanup? That option hasn't been presented. peterchen wrote: Mad at someone who is just optimizing his balance? "Optimizing his balance" is an interesting way of describing someone with an aggressive and abusive attitude. In general, I object to the training and manipulation of the consumer. It goes on in many other ways, this is just one example. The prevalent attitude, however, is often, "The customer is stupid - let's see how much we can get away with." I've seen this both from the inside and the outside. Hence my unwillingness to just "go quietly." Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
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Holy low-fat tomato, I just realised you wrote that. While I completely disagree with the store owners attitude, I do normally clean up even after a meal (conditions apply) at Burger King or McDonalds. I just dislike leaving behind a dirty counter, something that is normally handled before I leave at a restaurant or that I do myself at home or as a guest. As for "Thank You", I take it in good spirit (whether it is or not). If the manager was standing by the rubbish bin and I dumped my cartons in it and he said thank you rather than relying on the embossed lid, I would think well (even if he has an MBA). But your chap has lost touch with reality. Worse, many people would have turned, _sheep_ishly gone back to their table and thrown the cartons away feeling duly righted. It is tough because the opposite extreme is being a jerk about it and acting like you own the place. Some good judgement is probably best. If the place is busy and someone is waiting for your table and no cleaner is on hand, take your stuff and chuck it away. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: Holy low-fat tomato, I just realised you wrote that. With such an outrageous situation, who else could it have happened to? :rolleyes: Paul Watson wrote: I do normally clean up even after a meal (conditions apply) at Burger King or McDonalds. Well, (and I'm not making fun of you), you're a lot younger than I am and I'm reasonably sure you can't remember it being any other way. I can, both from the employee and customer perspectives. Paul Watson wrote: It is tough because the opposite extreme is being a jerk about it and acting like you own the place. I don't really feel like that was my reaction - I simply refused to do what employees are paid to do. In fact, I was quietly on my way to the door when he started harrassing me. Paul Watson wrote: If the place is busy and someone is waiting for your table and no cleaner is on hand, take your stuff and chuck it away. Never. Why? Because... (see next entry) Paul Watson wrote: I just dislike leaving behind a dirty counter, something that is normally handled before I leave at a restaurant or that I do myself at home or as a guest. I was not at my home or a guest. As you may recall from the article, I'm the first to clear the table and try to help in the kitchen when I'm visiting friends, because they've offered me hospitality. When a restaurant offers me my meal for free, I'll consider it. Otherwise, I paid for food, not for an internship as a bus boy. Paul Watson wrote: Worse, many people would have turned, sheepishly gone back to their table and thrown the cartons away Which is why I made noise about this issue in the first place. Most people take a lot of crap that they don't have coming. Every now and then, someone needs to take a stand. As an idealist, I'm thinking you can appreciate it at least from this perspective. Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications