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  3. Linux, a future?

Linux, a future?

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  • J Jeff Patterson

    To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]

    S Offline
    S Offline
    Steve Mayfield
    wrote on last edited by
    #26

    If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products If SCO has it's way, it won't happen...$699 for a single CPU Linux license??? Steve

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    0
    • R Rocky Moore

      I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.

      • SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
      • China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
      • Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
      • And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
      • RedHat dumping the desktop users

      I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com

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      J Offline
      J Dunlap
      wrote on last edited by
      #27

      While we're talking about OSes, I'd really like to see an cooperative OS built from the ground up with 21st-century technology and parameters in mind. I'd like to see it set up so that people can replace and extend different parts of the OS, but where the basic "API contract" and interfaces stay same. Both Longhorn (to some extent) and Linux have a lot of potential there, but the latter is built on old (albeit) technology and doesn't cater to being easy for people to set up and easy for developers to develop with, and no variant of Linux that I've seen has a really good GUI system. Longhorn is expensive and ruled by MS, and is not cooperative at all - MS and only MS can develop and change it. I envision an OS platform where people develop and agree on standards, systems, and interfaces together, and then can make money by selling interchangeable OS components based on those standards. Then people can pick and choose what sections they want, and buy OS components based on what counts to them. But I doubt it's going to happen. :sigh:

      **"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -- Confucius

      FLUID UI Toolkit | FloodFill in C# & GDI+**

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      0
      • R Rocky Moore

        I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.

        • SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
        • China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
        • Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
        • And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
        • RedHat dumping the desktop users

        I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com

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        Daniel M Edwards
        wrote on last edited by
        #28

        Linux will always have a home with a small minority of computer users. Simply put Linux had a snowball chance in hell of taking over mainstream. It has alot of changing to do before that. When a person can't figure out where the start button is there is no way in hell you will ever teach them how to recompile something.

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        • C CillyMe

          Is Linux really more secured than M$? Or is it just not getting hacked as much and as often?

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          Matt Newman
          wrote on last edited by
          #29

          CillyMe wrote: Is Linux really more secured than M$? Or is it just not getting hacked as much and as often? The scary thing is something like 90% of web defacements are on *nix based servers. Matt Newman
          I am the anti-linux He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

          C 1 Reply Last reply
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          • S Steve Mayfield

            According to the Trekkies 2[^] web site, principal photography is done - whereas, trekkies chronicled only US fans, trekkies 2 "traveled to 8 countries across Europe, North and South America, and Australia. (Africa, Asia, India, and Russia, look out for us in Trekkies 3 in a few years!)...Our best guestimate for release would be mid-2004. We’ll update here as we get more information…" Steve

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            Kentamanos
            wrote on last edited by
            #30

            Sounds promising. If it's half as good as the first, it will be worth checking out as well.


            I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
            -David St. Hubbins

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • R Rocky Moore

              I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.

              • SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
              • China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
              • Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
              • And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
              • RedHat dumping the desktop users

              I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com

              S Offline
              S Offline
              sanskypotov
              wrote on last edited by
              #31

              Hi All, After reading all the comments , I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them.Each has its strengths and weaknesses and we need to take that into consideration , observe the current user and market trend to come up with a good prediction. Windows has its strong points like good GUI and the development environment it has provided is quite good and a huge user base, but has disadvantages like millions of lines of code to mend , keeping the source code hidden from the users , and ofcourse a huge price tag. Linux has strong Unix background , its source code is available and the user has the liberty to change it ,strong user base support and its free. Mentioning negative aspects , I think it's just a matter of time that Linux will fill the gap separating windows , which it is already showing up in the improved quality and performance of desktops. Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I like M$ products , but it's true that currently the world is shifting towards Linux. Although , I might have missed few points , which I know other will make up. John 3:16
              For God so loved the world,
              that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
              that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

              N R 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • S sanskypotov

                Hi All, After reading all the comments , I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them.Each has its strengths and weaknesses and we need to take that into consideration , observe the current user and market trend to come up with a good prediction. Windows has its strong points like good GUI and the development environment it has provided is quite good and a huge user base, but has disadvantages like millions of lines of code to mend , keeping the source code hidden from the users , and ofcourse a huge price tag. Linux has strong Unix background , its source code is available and the user has the liberty to change it ,strong user base support and its free. Mentioning negative aspects , I think it's just a matter of time that Linux will fill the gap separating windows , which it is already showing up in the improved quality and performance of desktops. Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I like M$ products , but it's true that currently the world is shifting towards Linux. Although , I might have missed few points , which I know other will make up. John 3:16
                For God so loved the world,
                that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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                N Offline
                Nick Seng
                wrote on last edited by
                #32

                sanskypotov wrote: I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them sanskypotov wrote: M$ Contradicting yourself? :suss: :~ ;)


                "if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Support Bone

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                • J Jeff Varszegi

                  I found a pretty interesting article[^] while I was poking around the net tonight. It seems to me like not only are Windows customers more frustrated than Linux users, but that the numbers may be skewed on the reports cited by Microsoft. I found an interesting message from one of the people who reported a Linux bug in the last year; he said that most of the Linux bugs reported are largely theoretical, while Windows bugs are often found when sites are actually exploited. He said that he found a bug in a piece of IRC software that could theoretically be used in a DOS attack against a server, to slow it down, I guess. I don't see the point of comparing one-for-one an unexploited bug found by a scholar reading source code that would result in an inconvenience until patched, with a bug found through exploitation resulting in anyone being able to run unrestricted code on any Windows machine. How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? How many times in the last few months have you patched your machines to avoid any random hacker being able to run unrestricted code if you viewed their website? It seems that no one trumpets information about the Trustworthy Computing Initiative any more. I believe that's because it has become a source of embarrassment for Microsoft (and Bill Gates personally). I will say this, though: the initiative has definitely resulted in much, much faster patches, which is a really big improvement. Regards, Jeff Varszegi

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                  Rocky Moore
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #33

                  Jeff Varszegi wrote: How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? Actually, that would be comparing apples to rocks! Insecure applications can exist on any platform as well as trojans. You run software that opens a port you have breached your security no matter what platform you choose. I would imagine that over 90% of the security issues with Windows are based on people running applications on their systems from email attachments. The actually breaches in the OS core would only be a fraction on a properly configured machine. Many of the issues found to attack Windows are due to inexperenced users breaching their own systems by either running trojan software or not locking down their system. If Windows was "Just" a server OS as is the majority of Linux installations, you would normally have more people who would know how to secure their systems. Microsoft has to build their OS and applications to work for the desktop user while trying to prevent them from shoot themselves in the foot. It is a little hard to protect a person from an exploit when a patch has been out for six months and they users do nothing about it. Of course Windows is primarily a Desktop OS that is reaching into the Enterprise while *inuxes are Server OS's trying to reach to the desktop. And with Microsoft, when a fix is released it is usually a simple auto notification that you can click one button and have your system patched ;) Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com

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                  • S sanskypotov

                    Hi All, After reading all the comments , I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them.Each has its strengths and weaknesses and we need to take that into consideration , observe the current user and market trend to come up with a good prediction. Windows has its strong points like good GUI and the development environment it has provided is quite good and a huge user base, but has disadvantages like millions of lines of code to mend , keeping the source code hidden from the users , and ofcourse a huge price tag. Linux has strong Unix background , its source code is available and the user has the liberty to change it ,strong user base support and its free. Mentioning negative aspects , I think it's just a matter of time that Linux will fill the gap separating windows , which it is already showing up in the improved quality and performance of desktops. Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I like M$ products , but it's true that currently the world is shifting towards Linux. Although , I might have missed few points , which I know other will make up. John 3:16
                    For God so loved the world,
                    that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                    that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                    R Offline
                    R Offline
                    Rocky Moore
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #34

                    sanskypotov wrote: strong user base support and its free Free is only relevant if you happen to be a Linux expert. Desktop users will NEVER see "free" when it comes to Linux. Then there are the companies that are so flaky and just pull the rug out from under your feet like RedHat just did to their desktop community. Most desktop users of RedHat just got screwed and will have a financial cost to them. sanskypotov wrote: Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I do not believe Microsoft is concerned to heavily about Linux when it comes to the desktop. Microsoft knows what is coming down the road and the majority of the desktop users will flock to it like flies to sugar! Here we are, eight years after Windows 95 came out an Linux still has not caught up with the Windows 95 model of ease for desktop end users. They will be light years behind Longhorn! Maybe that is why RedHat gave up on the desktop user, they realize they would have too long of road to even compete. Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com

                    S 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • J Jeff Varszegi

                      I found a pretty interesting article[^] while I was poking around the net tonight. It seems to me like not only are Windows customers more frustrated than Linux users, but that the numbers may be skewed on the reports cited by Microsoft. I found an interesting message from one of the people who reported a Linux bug in the last year; he said that most of the Linux bugs reported are largely theoretical, while Windows bugs are often found when sites are actually exploited. He said that he found a bug in a piece of IRC software that could theoretically be used in a DOS attack against a server, to slow it down, I guess. I don't see the point of comparing one-for-one an unexploited bug found by a scholar reading source code that would result in an inconvenience until patched, with a bug found through exploitation resulting in anyone being able to run unrestricted code on any Windows machine. How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? How many times in the last few months have you patched your machines to avoid any random hacker being able to run unrestricted code if you viewed their website? It seems that no one trumpets information about the Trustworthy Computing Initiative any more. I believe that's because it has become a source of embarrassment for Microsoft (and Bill Gates personally). I will say this, though: the initiative has definitely resulted in much, much faster patches, which is a really big improvement. Regards, Jeff Varszegi

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                      Paul Watson
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #35

                      So what you are saying about theoretical vs. exploited coroborates the thought that if Linux was as popular as Windows then Linux would be as prone as we see Windows today. Whether I read a bug in code I have written or find out by someone exploiting it, it is still a bug. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?

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                      • R Rocky Moore

                        sanskypotov wrote: strong user base support and its free Free is only relevant if you happen to be a Linux expert. Desktop users will NEVER see "free" when it comes to Linux. Then there are the companies that are so flaky and just pull the rug out from under your feet like RedHat just did to their desktop community. Most desktop users of RedHat just got screwed and will have a financial cost to them. sanskypotov wrote: Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I do not believe Microsoft is concerned to heavily about Linux when it comes to the desktop. Microsoft knows what is coming down the road and the majority of the desktop users will flock to it like flies to sugar! Here we are, eight years after Windows 95 came out an Linux still has not caught up with the Windows 95 model of ease for desktop end users. They will be light years behind Longhorn! Maybe that is why RedHat gave up on the desktop user, they realize they would have too long of road to even compete. Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com

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                        sanskypotov
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #36

                        here are few facts, perhaps it may help to understand... http://www.vnunet.com/News/1149212 http://www.vnunet.com/News/1144277 M$ still has a chance, if they would do the following .... I will not tell it free ( In true M$ style ), I will charge for my views ;) M$ prices are exorbitant!!!

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                        • S sanskypotov

                          here are few facts, perhaps it may help to understand... http://www.vnunet.com/News/1149212 http://www.vnunet.com/News/1144277 M$ still has a chance, if they would do the following .... I will not tell it free ( In true M$ style ), I will charge for my views ;) M$ prices are exorbitant!!!

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                          Ian Darling
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #37

                          sanskypotov wrote: M$ prices are exorbitant!!! No, just more than some of the alternatives. I bought XP for real money, and downloaded Redhat 9 and Mandrake 9 for nothing and burnt them onto CDR. Care to guess which I would use? XP, because it's consistent and works. The GUI actually looks right/consistent, where as GNOME on both Linux distros looks wrong/inconsistent (and anyone who says the looks aren't important doesn't grok how important UIs really are). And this is a fair criticsm. The BeOS and MacOS guys got their GUIs to look right/consistent as well, so a) there is no excuse for anyone working on the Linux Desktop not to do the same and b) this proves this isn't a Microsoft fan-boy posting. -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky

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                          • M Matt Newman

                            CillyMe wrote: Is Linux really more secured than M$? Or is it just not getting hacked as much and as often? The scary thing is something like 90% of web defacements are on *nix based servers. Matt Newman
                            I am the anti-linux He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

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                            C Offline
                            CillyMe
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #38

                            Don't know where you get your figures from, but, what bothers me is the concept of "free software": Why should software be free? I feel no guilt charging enterprise a lot of money for my consulting/jobs. All "professional" do - lawyers, physicians, engineers, accountants, real estate agents, business consultants (yeah, biz processes/reengineering, big deal.)... What makes M$ evil because they charge money for what they make? I don't think programmer generates a lot of sympathy during many sleepless nights debuggin code and making things work. People should realize that they need to "pay" for other people's effort. They should "pay" for their software/services. Linux is one complex piece of software. It's professional work and is result of countless hours of commitment. But..., o well, I will stop bickering like one of them.

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                            • I Ian Darling

                              sanskypotov wrote: M$ prices are exorbitant!!! No, just more than some of the alternatives. I bought XP for real money, and downloaded Redhat 9 and Mandrake 9 for nothing and burnt them onto CDR. Care to guess which I would use? XP, because it's consistent and works. The GUI actually looks right/consistent, where as GNOME on both Linux distros looks wrong/inconsistent (and anyone who says the looks aren't important doesn't grok how important UIs really are). And this is a fair criticsm. The BeOS and MacOS guys got their GUIs to look right/consistent as well, so a) there is no excuse for anyone working on the Linux Desktop not to do the same and b) this proves this isn't a Microsoft fan-boy posting. -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky

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                              sanskypotov
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #39

                              Let me ask , Where do you find it more comfortable typing your Creditcard number XP or Linux ??? Remember there might be some guy out there , happily logging your keys and congratulating himself , or do you have a thought running in the back of your mind 'just one wrong mail' and you can toss your machine in the garbage can ??? Beauty is only skin deep !, they say. Here it seems to be lot of Whitewash!!! ( on tombs filled with worms ) John 3:16
                              For God so loved the world,
                              that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                              that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                              I 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • S sanskypotov

                                Let me ask , Where do you find it more comfortable typing your Creditcard number XP or Linux ??? Remember there might be some guy out there , happily logging your keys and congratulating himself , or do you have a thought running in the back of your mind 'just one wrong mail' and you can toss your machine in the garbage can ??? Beauty is only skin deep !, they say. Here it seems to be lot of Whitewash!!! ( on tombs filled with worms ) John 3:16
                                For God so loved the world,
                                that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                                that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                                I Offline
                                I Offline
                                Ian Darling
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #40

                                sanskypotov wrote: Where do you find it more comfortable typing your Creditcard number XP or Linux ??? Given I take a reasonable level of caution doing such things anyway, and also take care of the security of my system regardless of it's OS, it doesn't matter what I type it into. I'm quite happy with the level of security and the tools provided to help keep things secure on XP. On a more critical note, I notice you have attempted to switch the discussion from usability to security, presumably because you agree with my statement but do not like to admit so, and therefore have to change the focus to something you believe Linux is better at. Incidentally, I don't think Linux actually *has* better security, just that the people who run it are more likely to be aware of security issues and address them -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky

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                                • I Ian Darling

                                  sanskypotov wrote: Where do you find it more comfortable typing your Creditcard number XP or Linux ??? Given I take a reasonable level of caution doing such things anyway, and also take care of the security of my system regardless of it's OS, it doesn't matter what I type it into. I'm quite happy with the level of security and the tools provided to help keep things secure on XP. On a more critical note, I notice you have attempted to switch the discussion from usability to security, presumably because you agree with my statement but do not like to admit so, and therefore have to change the focus to something you believe Linux is better at. Incidentally, I don't think Linux actually *has* better security, just that the people who run it are more likely to be aware of security issues and address them -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky

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                                  S Offline
                                  sanskypotov
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #41

                                  Usability ??? I run 2 -3 good programs that are time consuming on windows and the whole OS is at mercy of them . I can't even load the TaskManager to kill them. Wonder who controls whom ? programs decides or OS decides to keep the controls? It feels like the OS is carrying unnecessary baggage or needs to rewritten again , keeping cleary in mind that it is an OS and supposed to run fast and reliable. As far as the XP looks are concerned , I prefer the w2k looks more professional , but XP looks are fine for kids!!! John 3:16
                                  For God so loved the world,
                                  that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                                  that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                                  I M M 3 Replies Last reply
                                  0
                                  • S sanskypotov

                                    Usability ??? I run 2 -3 good programs that are time consuming on windows and the whole OS is at mercy of them . I can't even load the TaskManager to kill them. Wonder who controls whom ? programs decides or OS decides to keep the controls? It feels like the OS is carrying unnecessary baggage or needs to rewritten again , keeping cleary in mind that it is an OS and supposed to run fast and reliable. As far as the XP looks are concerned , I prefer the w2k looks more professional , but XP looks are fine for kids!!! John 3:16
                                    For God so loved the world,
                                    that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                                    that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                                    I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    Ian Darling
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #42

                                    sanskypotov wrote: I run 2 -3 good programs that are time consuming on windows and the whole OS is at mercy of them Did you switch the operating system to it's Background Services mode? You might find it performs better, because it increases the "time slice" or quanta for each thread, thus reducing context switches. Running intensive processes in Programs mode is going to kill performance because it context switches a lot more and so less CPU time is used on actual software - the Programs mode is intended for general purpose applications that do not need a consistently large amount of CPU time, and thus enable the computer to be more responsive when a user does something. See My Computer>Properties>Advanced>Performance Settings>Advanced>Processor Scheduling (at least, it is under XP. This setting exists on 2K as well IIRC) sanskypotov wrote: Wonder who controls whom ? programs decides or OS decides to keep the controls? I don't follow you here. sanskypotov wrote: It feels like the OS is carrying unnecessary baggage or needs to rewritten again , keeping cleary in mind that it is an OS and supposed to run fast and reliable. I don't feel that myself, but I guess a lot of this feeling is subjective. sanskypotov wrote: As far as the XP looks are concerned , I prefer the w2k looks more professional , but XP looks are fine for kids!!! I prefer the W2K/Classic look in XP as well, but both themes still look consistent across the board, even though my personal tastes prevents me from using one of them. Linux desktop software generally still finds this consistency very hard to do, and that is one of many things that I consider are holding back my own usage of this operating system. -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • C CillyMe

                                      Don't know where you get your figures from, but, what bothers me is the concept of "free software": Why should software be free? I feel no guilt charging enterprise a lot of money for my consulting/jobs. All "professional" do - lawyers, physicians, engineers, accountants, real estate agents, business consultants (yeah, biz processes/reengineering, big deal.)... What makes M$ evil because they charge money for what they make? I don't think programmer generates a lot of sympathy during many sleepless nights debuggin code and making things work. People should realize that they need to "pay" for other people's effort. They should "pay" for their software/services. Linux is one complex piece of software. It's professional work and is result of countless hours of commitment. But..., o well, I will stop bickering like one of them.

                                      M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Matt Newman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #43

                                      CillyMe wrote: Don't know where you get your figures from It was a recent survey, don't remember where I read it though Matt Newman
                                      I am the anti-linux He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S sanskypotov

                                        Usability ??? I run 2 -3 good programs that are time consuming on windows and the whole OS is at mercy of them . I can't even load the TaskManager to kill them. Wonder who controls whom ? programs decides or OS decides to keep the controls? It feels like the OS is carrying unnecessary baggage or needs to rewritten again , keeping cleary in mind that it is an OS and supposed to run fast and reliable. As far as the XP looks are concerned , I prefer the w2k looks more professional , but XP looks are fine for kids!!! John 3:16
                                        For God so loved the world,
                                        that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
                                        that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                                        M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mike Dimmick
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #44

                                        sanskypotov wrote: I run 2 -3 good programs that are time consuming on windows and the whole OS is at mercy of them . I can't even load the TaskManager to kill them. Either your system is underspecified for running Windows XP, or there's just something really wrong with the hardware. I've currently got 13 buttons on the taskbar: Outlook, phone software, homebrew Work Tracker, two Explorer windows, VB6 with a large project open, TextPad, Word 2000, three IE windows (two processes, one of which had a PDF loaded, so Acrobat 5.1's running too), a January 2001 copy of MSDN Library and an October 2003 copy. I'm also running MSN Messenger and a couple of background services. This is Win2k on an AMD Duron 850 with 256MB RAM. Right-clicking the taskbar currently takes 10 seconds for the menu to pop up, if I haven't used it recently, with the disk thrashing madly - but that's a factor of the slow HDD and the crappy Via disk controller. Windows swaps out anything that isn't currently being used, and it's quite aggressive in doing so. HDD speed is a greater factor in overall Windows performance than on other operating systems.

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                                        • P Paul Watson

                                          So what you are saying about theoretical vs. exploited coroborates the thought that if Linux was as popular as Windows then Linux would be as prone as we see Windows today. Whether I read a bug in code I have written or find out by someone exploiting it, it is still a bug. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?

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                                          Jeff Varszegi
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #45

                                          Paul Watson wrote: Whether I read a bug in code I have written or find out by someone exploiting it, it is still a bug. Yeah, that's true, but I think that the guy was mainly saying two things: (1) that the majority of Windows bugs are of the variety "This flaw can allow any attacker to run unrestricted code on your machine", which isn't true of the body of found Linux bugs; and (2) that these things are found almost always by community review of Linux code, which is impossible with Windows since it's closed-source, and that Microsoft isn't very proactive in finding these things before the fact. Almost all of the bugs seem to be buffer-overrun vulnerabilities, which makes me really wonder why they don't just review all of their code to find them. They should even be able to automate this! I imagine that Longhorn will be free from lots of these problems; I'll wager that Microsoft is pushing security pretty hard during its development. I still don't understand the unquestioning adulation of Microsoft fans who've been let down so often. Regards, Jeff Varszegi

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