Linux, a future?
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If you haven't seen it, rent this: Trekkies Looks like they're making a 2nd one too...
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsYikes, they actually made a movie?! I have to see this.:) Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
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Yikes, they actually made a movie?! I have to see this.:) Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
It's a great documentary about Star Trek fanatics. It's worth renting whether you love, hate, or are indifferent to Star Trek.
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. Hubbins -
It's a great documentary about Star Trek fanatics. It's worth renting whether you love, hate, or are indifferent to Star Trek.
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsHmm, I might have to give it a rent. Thanks for the suggestion. BTW, I love Star Trek, just not enough to want to dress like a Klingon.;P Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
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If you haven't seen it, rent this: Trekkies Looks like they're making a 2nd one too...
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsAccording to the Trekkies 2[^] web site, principal photography is done - whereas, trekkies chronicled only US fans, trekkies 2 "traveled to 8 countries across Europe, North and South America, and Australia. (Africa, Asia, India, and Russia, look out for us in Trekkies 3 in a few years!)...Our best guestimate for release would be mid-2004. We’ll update here as we get more information…" Steve
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Rocky Moore wrote: there are no white sheep in this area That's true, but I'll take light gray over deep black any day. I dunno, I just refuse to be a rah-rah guy for Microsoft, after the way they've behaved and the serious security and performance issues with the majority of their products. I do really LOVE some things they've made, like the C# language. I don't love the vaporware, the monopolistic tactics, etc. I'd be more likely to accept that stuff if all their software was perfect, which it's not. I read an article on OpenBSD that said that it was by far the most secure computing platform available, but I've never been at a shop that actually ran it. Now I'm left wondering why-- maybe it has performance flaws? It's a Linux variant too, but I know they're not all the same. I also know that I'm not an expert on any of this. Rocky Moore wrote: With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Heh. So true. I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market, but it will be interesting to watch. One thing's for absolute sure-- Sun is taking on water. I think that the future of the entire Java platform is way shakier than the future of Linux, unless IBM forces a buyout or something. Rocky Moore wrote: Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI One of the reasons I bought SuSE Linux was the desktop-OS review in PC magazine this month. It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome. It could all be marketing hype, for all I know, but maybe I'll let you know how it is when I've played around with it for a while. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
Jeff Varszegi wrote: I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market Yeah, but when you are talking dual G5's.. They are getting there ;) I believe their core is BSD so, it is just another *inux with a decent GUI ;) Jeff Varszegi wrote: It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome Yeah, but there is no comparison of KDE and OS-X GUI. Nor the apps bring shipped that work so well with the Apple GUI. Of course KDE will not even touch the fringe of the Longhorn GUI when it comes out. They have a LOT of work to go before they can even compete with Apple's GUI. For me personally, there is no hope of a Linux variant since there are no equivilants for many of the programs I require. Apple is getting closer but I just don't think I could go with an OS that is so hung up on its user interface that it does not natively support the right mouse button or scroll wheel :) Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.
- SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
- China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
- Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
- And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
- RedHat dumping the desktop users
I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
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Jeff Varszegi wrote: with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities Look up the latest stats on the number of security issues with Windows vs Linux. cheers, Chris Maunder
I found a pretty interesting article[^] while I was poking around the net tonight. It seems to me like not only are Windows customers more frustrated than Linux users, but that the numbers may be skewed on the reports cited by Microsoft. I found an interesting message from one of the people who reported a Linux bug in the last year; he said that most of the Linux bugs reported are largely theoretical, while Windows bugs are often found when sites are actually exploited. He said that he found a bug in a piece of IRC software that could theoretically be used in a DOS attack against a server, to slow it down, I guess. I don't see the point of comparing one-for-one an unexploited bug found by a scholar reading source code that would result in an inconvenience until patched, with a bug found through exploitation resulting in anyone being able to run unrestricted code on any Windows machine. How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? How many times in the last few months have you patched your machines to avoid any random hacker being able to run unrestricted code if you viewed their website? It seems that no one trumpets information about the Trustworthy Computing Initiative any more. I believe that's because it has become a source of embarrassment for Microsoft (and Bill Gates personally). I will say this, though: the initiative has definitely resulted in much, much faster patches, which is a really big improvement. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
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To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
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To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
That's all I'm saying! I refuse to be a Microsoft fan for no reason, and I like more options for me to use. Who in their right mind wouldn't? Thank you. Jeff Varszegi
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Rocky Moore wrote: there are no white sheep in this area That's true, but I'll take light gray over deep black any day. I dunno, I just refuse to be a rah-rah guy for Microsoft, after the way they've behaved and the serious security and performance issues with the majority of their products. I do really LOVE some things they've made, like the C# language. I don't love the vaporware, the monopolistic tactics, etc. I'd be more likely to accept that stuff if all their software was perfect, which it's not. I read an article on OpenBSD that said that it was by far the most secure computing platform available, but I've never been at a shop that actually ran it. Now I'm left wondering why-- maybe it has performance flaws? It's a Linux variant too, but I know they're not all the same. I also know that I'm not an expert on any of this. Rocky Moore wrote: With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Heh. So true. I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market, but it will be interesting to watch. One thing's for absolute sure-- Sun is taking on water. I think that the future of the entire Java platform is way shakier than the future of Linux, unless IBM forces a buyout or something. Rocky Moore wrote: Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI One of the reasons I bought SuSE Linux was the desktop-OS review in PC magazine this month. It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome. It could all be marketing hype, for all I know, but maybe I'll let you know how it is when I've played around with it for a while. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
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To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products If SCO has it's way, it won't happen...$699 for a single CPU Linux license??? Steve
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I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.
- SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
- China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
- Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
- And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
- RedHat dumping the desktop users
I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
While we're talking about OSes, I'd really like to see an cooperative OS built from the ground up with 21st-century technology and parameters in mind. I'd like to see it set up so that people can replace and extend different parts of the OS, but where the basic "API contract" and interfaces stay same. Both Longhorn (to some extent) and Linux have a lot of potential there, but the latter is built on old (albeit) technology and doesn't cater to being easy for people to set up and easy for developers to develop with, and no variant of Linux that I've seen has a really good GUI system. Longhorn is expensive and ruled by MS, and is not cooperative at all - MS and only MS can develop and change it. I envision an OS platform where people develop and agree on standards, systems, and interfaces together, and then can make money by selling interchangeable OS components based on those standards. Then people can pick and choose what sections they want, and buy OS components based on what counts to them. But I doubt it's going to happen. :sigh:
**"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -- Confucius
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I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.
- SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
- China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
- Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
- And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
- RedHat dumping the desktop users
I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
Linux will always have a home with a small minority of computer users. Simply put Linux had a snowball chance in hell of taking over mainstream. It has alot of changing to do before that. When a person can't figure out where the start button is there is no way in hell you will ever teach them how to recompile something.
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Is Linux really more secured than M$? Or is it just not getting hacked as much and as often?
CillyMe wrote: Is Linux really more secured than M$? Or is it just not getting hacked as much and as often? The scary thing is something like 90% of web defacements are on *nix based servers. Matt Newman
I am the anti-linux He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something. -
According to the Trekkies 2[^] web site, principal photography is done - whereas, trekkies chronicled only US fans, trekkies 2 "traveled to 8 countries across Europe, North and South America, and Australia. (Africa, Asia, India, and Russia, look out for us in Trekkies 3 in a few years!)...Our best guestimate for release would be mid-2004. We’ll update here as we get more information…" Steve
Sounds promising. If it's half as good as the first, it will be worth checking out as well.
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. Hubbins -
I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.
- SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
- China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
- Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
- And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
- RedHat dumping the desktop users
I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
Hi All, After reading all the comments , I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them.Each has its strengths and weaknesses and we need to take that into consideration , observe the current user and market trend to come up with a good prediction. Windows has its strong points like good GUI and the development environment it has provided is quite good and a huge user base, but has disadvantages like millions of lines of code to mend , keeping the source code hidden from the users , and ofcourse a huge price tag. Linux has strong Unix background , its source code is available and the user has the liberty to change it ,strong user base support and its free. Mentioning negative aspects , I think it's just a matter of time that Linux will fill the gap separating windows , which it is already showing up in the improved quality and performance of desktops. Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I like M$ products , but it's true that currently the world is shifting towards Linux. Although , I might have missed few points , which I know other will make up. John 3:16
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -
Hi All, After reading all the comments , I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them.Each has its strengths and weaknesses and we need to take that into consideration , observe the current user and market trend to come up with a good prediction. Windows has its strong points like good GUI and the development environment it has provided is quite good and a huge user base, but has disadvantages like millions of lines of code to mend , keeping the source code hidden from the users , and ofcourse a huge price tag. Linux has strong Unix background , its source code is available and the user has the liberty to change it ,strong user base support and its free. Mentioning negative aspects , I think it's just a matter of time that Linux will fill the gap separating windows , which it is already showing up in the improved quality and performance of desktops. Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I like M$ products , but it's true that currently the world is shifting towards Linux. Although , I might have missed few points , which I know other will make up. John 3:16
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.sanskypotov wrote: I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them sanskypotov wrote: M$ Contradicting yourself? :suss: :~ ;)
"if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Support Bone
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I found a pretty interesting article[^] while I was poking around the net tonight. It seems to me like not only are Windows customers more frustrated than Linux users, but that the numbers may be skewed on the reports cited by Microsoft. I found an interesting message from one of the people who reported a Linux bug in the last year; he said that most of the Linux bugs reported are largely theoretical, while Windows bugs are often found when sites are actually exploited. He said that he found a bug in a piece of IRC software that could theoretically be used in a DOS attack against a server, to slow it down, I guess. I don't see the point of comparing one-for-one an unexploited bug found by a scholar reading source code that would result in an inconvenience until patched, with a bug found through exploitation resulting in anyone being able to run unrestricted code on any Windows machine. How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? How many times in the last few months have you patched your machines to avoid any random hacker being able to run unrestricted code if you viewed their website? It seems that no one trumpets information about the Trustworthy Computing Initiative any more. I believe that's because it has become a source of embarrassment for Microsoft (and Bill Gates personally). I will say this, though: the initiative has definitely resulted in much, much faster patches, which is a really big improvement. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
Jeff Varszegi wrote: How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? Actually, that would be comparing apples to rocks! Insecure applications can exist on any platform as well as trojans. You run software that opens a port you have breached your security no matter what platform you choose. I would imagine that over 90% of the security issues with Windows are based on people running applications on their systems from email attachments. The actually breaches in the OS core would only be a fraction on a properly configured machine. Many of the issues found to attack Windows are due to inexperenced users breaching their own systems by either running trojan software or not locking down their system. If Windows was "Just" a server OS as is the majority of Linux installations, you would normally have more people who would know how to secure their systems. Microsoft has to build their OS and applications to work for the desktop user while trying to prevent them from shoot themselves in the foot. It is a little hard to protect a person from an exploit when a patch has been out for six months and they users do nothing about it. Of course Windows is primarily a Desktop OS that is reaching into the Enterprise while *inuxes are Server OS's trying to reach to the desktop. And with Microsoft, when a fix is released it is usually a simple auto notification that you can click one button and have your system patched ;) Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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Hi All, After reading all the comments , I feel the need to have a look at the situation with level headedness and fairly without holding any bias towards either of them.Each has its strengths and weaknesses and we need to take that into consideration , observe the current user and market trend to come up with a good prediction. Windows has its strong points like good GUI and the development environment it has provided is quite good and a huge user base, but has disadvantages like millions of lines of code to mend , keeping the source code hidden from the users , and ofcourse a huge price tag. Linux has strong Unix background , its source code is available and the user has the liberty to change it ,strong user base support and its free. Mentioning negative aspects , I think it's just a matter of time that Linux will fill the gap separating windows , which it is already showing up in the improved quality and performance of desktops. Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I like M$ products , but it's true that currently the world is shifting towards Linux. Although , I might have missed few points , which I know other will make up. John 3:16
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son ( Jesus Christ ) ,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.sanskypotov wrote: strong user base support and its free Free is only relevant if you happen to be a Linux expert. Desktop users will NEVER see "free" when it comes to Linux. Then there are the companies that are so flaky and just pull the rug out from under your feet like RedHat just did to their desktop community. Most desktop users of RedHat just got screwed and will have a financial cost to them. sanskypotov wrote: Linux is definately giving M$ sleepless nights , that itself proves that Linux is posing a major competition to M$. I do not believe Microsoft is concerned to heavily about Linux when it comes to the desktop. Microsoft knows what is coming down the road and the majority of the desktop users will flock to it like flies to sugar! Here we are, eight years after Windows 95 came out an Linux still has not caught up with the Windows 95 model of ease for desktop end users. They will be light years behind Longhorn! Maybe that is why RedHat gave up on the desktop user, they realize they would have too long of road to even compete. Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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I found a pretty interesting article[^] while I was poking around the net tonight. It seems to me like not only are Windows customers more frustrated than Linux users, but that the numbers may be skewed on the reports cited by Microsoft. I found an interesting message from one of the people who reported a Linux bug in the last year; he said that most of the Linux bugs reported are largely theoretical, while Windows bugs are often found when sites are actually exploited. He said that he found a bug in a piece of IRC software that could theoretically be used in a DOS attack against a server, to slow it down, I guess. I don't see the point of comparing one-for-one an unexploited bug found by a scholar reading source code that would result in an inconvenience until patched, with a bug found through exploitation resulting in anyone being able to run unrestricted code on any Windows machine. How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? How many times in the last few months have you patched your machines to avoid any random hacker being able to run unrestricted code if you viewed their website? It seems that no one trumpets information about the Trustworthy Computing Initiative any more. I believe that's because it has become a source of embarrassment for Microsoft (and Bill Gates personally). I will say this, though: the initiative has definitely resulted in much, much faster patches, which is a really big improvement. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
So what you are saying about theoretical vs. exploited coroborates the thought that if Linux was as popular as Windows then Linux would be as prone as we see Windows today. Whether I read a bug in code I have written or find out by someone exploiting it, it is still a bug. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?