Outsourcing to india
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Venkatraman wrote: PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian By its very nature, business is war - an agressive competition for turf and resources. Therefore, I would take no offense to your being a "greedy Indian" any more than I would condemn Americans who fight to keep their jobs local. It's all just part of the game. Currently, India and other such countries are winning battles on the outsourcing front by appealing to American short term thinking by way of being the lowest bidder. As time goes on, the tides may change if long term problems arise that are caused by or not remedied through short term approaches. People in India want jobs. They use cut rate pricing as a tactic to attract them. People in America want jobs. To counter this strategy, they must come up with equally effective tactics of their own. I see no fault on either side. As in any conflict, victory goes to those who seize it. Any who revel in their successes should also be willing to accept their defeats. Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
I’ve been and AutoCAD drafter for over 10 years now and recently I decided to look into becoming self employed and contracting my services. My first step was to search the Internet for companies who contracted AutoCAD services to see about how much they charge and one of the first companies that came up was one that outsourced to a company in India for around $8.00/hour.:omg: What a frustrating revelation.:sigh: I’m not a greedy person. I’m 33 years old, have two car payments (one for my wife and one for myself) and a mortgage payment and there is simply no way I could afford to simply "stay alive" for $8.00/hour. It scars me to think what will happen to the United States if we continue to send work outside of our borders. Sure, everything will even out over time. For example, the cost of living in the US would eventually be lowered but a lot of people would suffer a great deal of poverty for a long period of time before something like that would ever balance out.
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Venkatraman wrote: PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian By its very nature, business is war - an agressive competition for turf and resources. Therefore, I would take no offense to your being a "greedy Indian" any more than I would condemn Americans who fight to keep their jobs local. It's all just part of the game. Currently, India and other such countries are winning battles on the outsourcing front by appealing to American short term thinking by way of being the lowest bidder. As time goes on, the tides may change if long term problems arise that are caused by or not remedied through short term approaches. People in India want jobs. They use cut rate pricing as a tactic to attract them. People in America want jobs. To counter this strategy, they must come up with equally effective tactics of their own. I see no fault on either side. As in any conflict, victory goes to those who seize it. Any who revel in their successes should also be willing to accept their defeats. Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: victory goes to those who seize it. Reminds me of that great saying, "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" when you let something just slip away. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
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Christopher Duncan wrote: victory goes to those who seize it. Reminds me of that great saying, "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" when you let something just slip away. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
Chris, I checked out your Bio and saw your picture. A beer in one hand, (possibly a cigar in the other), very little clothing (you probably just rolled out of bed) and beautiful scenery in the background...sign me up for what ever it is that you do for a living;P
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I’ve been and AutoCAD drafter for over 10 years now and recently I decided to look into becoming self employed and contracting my services. My first step was to search the Internet for companies who contracted AutoCAD services to see about how much they charge and one of the first companies that came up was one that outsourced to a company in India for around $8.00/hour.:omg: What a frustrating revelation.:sigh: I’m not a greedy person. I’m 33 years old, have two car payments (one for my wife and one for myself) and a mortgage payment and there is simply no way I could afford to simply "stay alive" for $8.00/hour. It scars me to think what will happen to the United States if we continue to send work outside of our borders. Sure, everything will even out over time. For example, the cost of living in the US would eventually be lowered but a lot of people would suffer a great deal of poverty for a long period of time before something like that would ever balance out.
Brad Fackrell wrote: My first step was to search the Internet for companies who contracted AutoCAD services to see about how much they charge and one of the first companies that came up was one that outsourced to a company in India for around $8.00/hour. What a frustrating revelation. I spent 10 years in sales prior to becoming a programmer, 5 of which was as president of a sales consulting company, training others. The first and most common mistake that people make is assuming that lowering prices is the best way to get a sale. It is not. As I used to tell my clients and their employees, price doesn't sell. Quality doesn't sell. Service doesn't sell. Salespeople sell. I have seen companies raking in the orders while selling absolute substandard crap at (literally) 7 times the going market rate. I've seen companies increase their monthly sales by actually increasing their prices (based on the perception that price == quality). The bottom line is that the order does not go to the lowest bidder - it goes to the best salesperson. This is true of jobs and companies alike. If you don't have sales skills yourself, hire someone who does. At the end of the day, it's all about the spin. That's why companies have marketing departments and job seekers pay commissions to headhunters. Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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Chris, I checked out your Bio and saw your picture. A beer in one hand, (possibly a cigar in the other), very little clothing (you probably just rolled out of bed) and beautiful scenery in the background...sign me up for what ever it is that you do for a living;P
Brad Fackrell wrote: sign me up for what ever it is that you do for a living He's a lifestyle consultant. :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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Hi all, We had discussed this many times in the past, but i do not understand the wisdom of canceling an order which an indian it company won over fellow US IT companies. If you read this you will understand why it does not make sense both logically and economically to cancel the order http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Bangalore - India Why the US can't win the outsourcing war against India Our advice to US CEOs, governors and senators: come out of denial and switch to curd-rice for dessert; it’s both cheaper and healthier - for bottomlines of the physical kind – than ice-cream http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms
I started out writing a reply to this message and then I stopped. Reason being, the whole "Outsource to a different country" thing tends to strike a cord with me and I could go on and on with many different aspects of why companies shouldn't outsource versus the only reason why they should. I can see companies outsourcing, etc. It happens. It's what gives people like me a job (consulting). Unforunately, businesses haven't wised up to the fact that outsourcing long distances does have it's disadvantages. (Most of my clients are within 150 miles of where I work). I think sooner or later, these companies are going to get stung bad by their long distance outsourcing. I just hope that not too many people get to visit the unemployment lines because of it. We'd loose too many good people in this industry. The whole outsourcing thing is a very big issue that isn't really discussed. It impacts way too many things to talk about in a forum like this. Too many people only see what it's doing to their companies bottom lines today only, and not enough people pay attention to the other 98% of what it takes to keep them in business tomorrow. Just my $0.03 worth. Nick This are my own opinions. You know the rest.....
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Christopher Duncan wrote: victory goes to those who seize it. Reminds me of that great saying, "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" when you let something just slip away. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
I think some companies have that as a part of their Mission Statement... Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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Brad Fackrell wrote: sign me up for what ever it is that you do for a living He's a lifestyle consultant. :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: He's a lifestyle consultant ...he seems to be very good at it.:-D
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Brad Fackrell wrote: My first step was to search the Internet for companies who contracted AutoCAD services to see about how much they charge and one of the first companies that came up was one that outsourced to a company in India for around $8.00/hour. What a frustrating revelation. I spent 10 years in sales prior to becoming a programmer, 5 of which was as president of a sales consulting company, training others. The first and most common mistake that people make is assuming that lowering prices is the best way to get a sale. It is not. As I used to tell my clients and their employees, price doesn't sell. Quality doesn't sell. Service doesn't sell. Salespeople sell. I have seen companies raking in the orders while selling absolute substandard crap at (literally) 7 times the going market rate. I've seen companies increase their monthly sales by actually increasing their prices (based on the perception that price == quality). The bottom line is that the order does not go to the lowest bidder - it goes to the best salesperson. This is true of jobs and companies alike. If you don't have sales skills yourself, hire someone who does. At the end of the day, it's all about the spin. That's why companies have marketing departments and job seekers pay commissions to headhunters. Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: The bottom line is that the order does not go to the lowest bidder - it goes to the best salesperson. I agree. I work for a small sales company and I'm really the only "non-sales" type here. One thing that I have learned is that I don't posses the knack for selling. Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them.
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Hi all, We had discussed this many times in the past, but i do not understand the wisdom of canceling an order which an indian it company won over fellow US IT companies. If you read this you will understand why it does not make sense both logically and economically to cancel the order http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Bangalore - India Why the US can't win the outsourcing war against India Our advice to US CEOs, governors and senators: come out of denial and switch to curd-rice for dessert; it’s both cheaper and healthier - for bottomlines of the physical kind – than ice-cream http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms
Venkatraman wrote: the outsourcing war I don't understand how it's a war. Why can't people see India and the US IT industries as complementing/benefiting each other, instead of being rivals? IMO: The Indian IT industry makes more money by getting projects from the US. The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. Where is the problem? Why are we rivals? I think the problem lies in the way we percieve things. If this madness continues, everyone stands to lose, except the commies. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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Christopher Duncan wrote: The bottom line is that the order does not go to the lowest bidder - it goes to the best salesperson. I agree. I work for a small sales company and I'm really the only "non-sales" type here. One thing that I have learned is that I don't posses the knack for selling. Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them.
Brad Fackrell wrote: Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them. No problem - simply hire a salesperson and pay them commission. 90% of a sale is better than 100% of no sale. :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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I think some companies have that as a part of their Mission Statement... Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
I did a contract at a major company that shall remain nameless, that followed that part of their mission statement very well. The oddest day in my life occured when two weeks before my contract was finished, the HR people swooped down and walked the entire department, about 50 people, out the door. The only two people left were myself and another contractor. It was so bizarre. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
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Brad Fackrell wrote: Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them. No problem - simply hire a salesperson and pay them commission. 90% of a sale is better than 100% of no sale. :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: simply hire a salesperson Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling:rolleyes: Remember, I can't sell.:-D
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Christopher Duncan wrote: simply hire a salesperson Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling:rolleyes: Remember, I can't sell.:-D
Brad Fackrell wrote: Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling All kidding aside, just put an ad in the paper or on job sites. The economy is tight, and people are looking for work. You have a job. It pays x%. Sit down and do the math on whatever you'd have to pay as commission to make it worth the time for both of you, and then let the candidates come in and sell themselves on why you should hire them - just like any other job interview. Based on how much it would pay them if they kept you booked up, advertise it as part time or full time accordingly. What would you do if you needed to hire a plumber? Sell them on taking your money, or asking them why they're the one you should hire? :-) Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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Brad Fackrell wrote: Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling All kidding aside, just put an ad in the paper or on job sites. The economy is tight, and people are looking for work. You have a job. It pays x%. Sit down and do the math on whatever you'd have to pay as commission to make it worth the time for both of you, and then let the candidates come in and sell themselves on why you should hire them - just like any other job interview. Based on how much it would pay them if they kept you booked up, advertise it as part time or full time accordingly. What would you do if you needed to hire a plumber? Sell them on taking your money, or asking them why they're the one you should hire? :-) Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: All kidding aside ...uuumm I wasn’t kidding.:~ Just kidding.;P Thank you very much for the good advice. I think that I will consider talking to some of the sales people that I work with as a starting point.
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I did a contract at a major company that shall remain nameless, that followed that part of their mission statement very well. The oddest day in my life occured when two weeks before my contract was finished, the HR people swooped down and walked the entire department, about 50 people, out the door. The only two people left were myself and another contractor. It was so bizarre. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
Chris Meech wrote: The only two people left were myself and another contractor. Sounds like you may have followed some of Christopher's advice:
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Chris Meech wrote: The only two people left were myself and another contractor. Sounds like you may have followed some of Christopher's advice:
"It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear." Chistopher Duncan
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Hi all, We had discussed this many times in the past, but i do not understand the wisdom of canceling an order which an indian it company won over fellow US IT companies. If you read this you will understand why it does not make sense both logically and economically to cancel the order http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Bangalore - India Why the US can't win the outsourcing war against India Our advice to US CEOs, governors and senators: come out of denial and switch to curd-rice for dessert; it’s both cheaper and healthier - for bottomlines of the physical kind – than ice-cream http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms
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Venkatraman wrote: the outsourcing war I don't understand how it's a war. Why can't people see India and the US IT industries as complementing/benefiting each other, instead of being rivals? IMO: The Indian IT industry makes more money by getting projects from the US. The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. Where is the problem? Why are we rivals? I think the problem lies in the way we percieve things. If this madness continues, everyone stands to lose, except the commies. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Rohit Sinha wrote: This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. I think that the problem is that, as we have all seen in the news recently, the "greedy" executives of these companies tend to just fill their pockets with the extra money while the rest loose their jobs and end up in the unemployment line.
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Venkatraman wrote: the outsourcing war I don't understand how it's a war. Why can't people see India and the US IT industries as complementing/benefiting each other, instead of being rivals? IMO: The Indian IT industry makes more money by getting projects from the US. The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. Where is the problem? Why are we rivals? I think the problem lies in the way we percieve things. If this madness continues, everyone stands to lose, except the commies. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Rohit Sinha wrote: The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. I think you underestimate how greedy big business especially among high-end company positions has gotten. Ideally your comments should be absolutely true, but the thinking of US buisnesses is why save money just to pump it into new jobs when I can just save money and pump it into my own wallet. Matt Newman If you chose to continue this discussion, I am fully prepared to make you my bitch. I invite you to ask around, and you'll find out that I'm quite capable of doing so - John Simmons on Trolls