Outsourcing to india
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Hi all, We had discussed this many times in the past, but i do not understand the wisdom of canceling an order which an indian it company won over fellow US IT companies. If you read this you will understand why it does not make sense both logically and economically to cancel the order http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Bangalore - India Why the US can't win the outsourcing war against India Our advice to US CEOs, governors and senators: come out of denial and switch to curd-rice for dessert; it’s both cheaper and healthier - for bottomlines of the physical kind – than ice-cream http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms
Venkatraman wrote: the outsourcing war I don't understand how it's a war. Why can't people see India and the US IT industries as complementing/benefiting each other, instead of being rivals? IMO: The Indian IT industry makes more money by getting projects from the US. The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. Where is the problem? Why are we rivals? I think the problem lies in the way we percieve things. If this madness continues, everyone stands to lose, except the commies. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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Christopher Duncan wrote: The bottom line is that the order does not go to the lowest bidder - it goes to the best salesperson. I agree. I work for a small sales company and I'm really the only "non-sales" type here. One thing that I have learned is that I don't posses the knack for selling. Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them.
Brad Fackrell wrote: Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them. No problem - simply hire a salesperson and pay them commission. 90% of a sale is better than 100% of no sale. :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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I think some companies have that as a part of their Mission Statement... Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
I did a contract at a major company that shall remain nameless, that followed that part of their mission statement very well. The oddest day in my life occured when two weeks before my contract was finished, the HR people swooped down and walked the entire department, about 50 people, out the door. The only two people left were myself and another contractor. It was so bizarre. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
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Brad Fackrell wrote: Frustrating thing is that I'm very good with AutoCAD but not very good at selling so I cannot convince total strangers that I can do a good job for them. No problem - simply hire a salesperson and pay them commission. 90% of a sale is better than 100% of no sale. :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: simply hire a salesperson Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling:rolleyes: Remember, I can't sell.:-D
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Christopher Duncan wrote: simply hire a salesperson Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling:rolleyes: Remember, I can't sell.:-D
Brad Fackrell wrote: Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling All kidding aside, just put an ad in the paper or on job sites. The economy is tight, and people are looking for work. You have a job. It pays x%. Sit down and do the math on whatever you'd have to pay as commission to make it worth the time for both of you, and then let the candidates come in and sell themselves on why you should hire them - just like any other job interview. Based on how much it would pay them if they kept you booked up, advertise it as part time or full time accordingly. What would you do if you needed to hire a plumber? Sell them on taking your money, or asking them why they're the one you should hire? :-) Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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Brad Fackrell wrote: Okay...now how do I convince a good sales person that my skills are worth selling All kidding aside, just put an ad in the paper or on job sites. The economy is tight, and people are looking for work. You have a job. It pays x%. Sit down and do the math on whatever you'd have to pay as commission to make it worth the time for both of you, and then let the candidates come in and sell themselves on why you should hire them - just like any other job interview. Based on how much it would pay them if they kept you booked up, advertise it as part time or full time accordingly. What would you do if you needed to hire a plumber? Sell them on taking your money, or asking them why they're the one you should hire? :-) Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: All kidding aside ...uuumm I wasn’t kidding.:~ Just kidding.;P Thank you very much for the good advice. I think that I will consider talking to some of the sales people that I work with as a starting point.
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I did a contract at a major company that shall remain nameless, that followed that part of their mission statement very well. The oddest day in my life occured when two weeks before my contract was finished, the HR people swooped down and walked the entire department, about 50 people, out the door. The only two people left were myself and another contractor. It was so bizarre. Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
Chris Meech wrote: The only two people left were myself and another contractor. Sounds like you may have followed some of Christopher's advice:
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Chris Meech wrote: The only two people left were myself and another contractor. Sounds like you may have followed some of Christopher's advice:
"It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear." Chistopher Duncan
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Hi all, We had discussed this many times in the past, but i do not understand the wisdom of canceling an order which an indian it company won over fellow US IT companies. If you read this you will understand why it does not make sense both logically and economically to cancel the order http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms PS: I really mind ppl getting unemployed in other part of the world, so dont think i am a greeedy indian Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Bangalore - India Why the US can't win the outsourcing war against India Our advice to US CEOs, governors and senators: come out of denial and switch to curd-rice for dessert; it’s both cheaper and healthier - for bottomlines of the physical kind – than ice-cream http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-334938,Curpg-1.cms
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Venkatraman wrote: the outsourcing war I don't understand how it's a war. Why can't people see India and the US IT industries as complementing/benefiting each other, instead of being rivals? IMO: The Indian IT industry makes more money by getting projects from the US. The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. Where is the problem? Why are we rivals? I think the problem lies in the way we percieve things. If this madness continues, everyone stands to lose, except the commies. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Rohit Sinha wrote: This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. I think that the problem is that, as we have all seen in the news recently, the "greedy" executives of these companies tend to just fill their pockets with the extra money while the rest loose their jobs and end up in the unemployment line.
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Venkatraman wrote: the outsourcing war I don't understand how it's a war. Why can't people see India and the US IT industries as complementing/benefiting each other, instead of being rivals? IMO: The Indian IT industry makes more money by getting projects from the US. The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. Where is the problem? Why are we rivals? I think the problem lies in the way we percieve things. If this madness continues, everyone stands to lose, except the commies. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Rohit Sinha wrote: The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. I think you underestimate how greedy big business especially among high-end company positions has gotten. Ideally your comments should be absolutely true, but the thinking of US buisnesses is why save money just to pump it into new jobs when I can just save money and pump it into my own wallet. Matt Newman If you chose to continue this discussion, I am fully prepared to make you my bitch. I invite you to ask around, and you'll find out that I'm quite capable of doing so - John Simmons on Trolls
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Rohit Sinha wrote: This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. I think that the problem is that, as we have all seen in the news recently, the "greedy" executives of these companies tend to just fill their pockets with the extra money while the rest loose their jobs and end up in the unemployment line.
I agree, but even in such cases, the money is ultimately deposited in one bank or the other, which invests it somewhere or the other. So it ultimately goes back into the economy. Money used wisely creates more money and more jobs. This improves tha standard of living, infrastructure, etc for everyone. You can't stop money. It keeps moving, even when you think you have locked it in a bank. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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Rohit Sinha wrote: The US IT industry saves a lot more money than what India gets this way by outsourcing. This money can be utilized in whatever manner they choose, including creating more jobs. I think you underestimate how greedy big business especially among high-end company positions has gotten. Ideally your comments should be absolutely true, but the thinking of US buisnesses is why save money just to pump it into new jobs when I can just save money and pump it into my own wallet. Matt Newman If you chose to continue this discussion, I am fully prepared to make you my bitch. I invite you to ask around, and you'll find out that I'm quite capable of doing so - John Simmons on Trolls
Yes, but I am of the opinion that money doesn't stagnate. As soon as you invest it, or spend it, or even simply put it in the bank, someone else gets it. And the cycle continues. So even when the CEOs and the other top brass just keep pumping the money into their own wallet, it ultimately feeds the economy as well. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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I agree, but even in such cases, the money is ultimately deposited in one bank or the other, which invests it somewhere or the other. So it ultimately goes back into the economy. Money used wisely creates more money and more jobs. This improves tha standard of living, infrastructure, etc for everyone. You can't stop money. It keeps moving, even when you think you have locked it in a bank. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Rohit Sinha wrote: You can't stop money. It keeps moving, even when you think you have locked it in a bank. I understand exactly what you are saying but what do the 50 people who loose theirs job this week do while waiting for this money to trickle back into the economy? Rohit Sinha wrote: Money used wisely creates more money and more jobs. I wish that we could trust company executives to actually use the money wisely. [^]
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Christopher Duncan wrote: All kidding aside ...uuumm I wasn’t kidding.:~ Just kidding.;P Thank you very much for the good advice. I think that I will consider talking to some of the sales people that I work with as a starting point.
Brad Fackrell wrote: I think that I will consider talking to some of the sales people that I work with as a starting point. An excellent place to start. Just remember me when you're rich & famous! :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
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Brad Fackrell wrote: I think that I will consider talking to some of the sales people that I work with as a starting point. An excellent place to start. Just remember me when you're rich & famous! :-D Christopher Duncan Today's Corporate Battle Tactic Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World
Christopher Duncan wrote: Just remember me when you're rich & famous Of course I will;)
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Chris, I checked out your Bio and saw your picture. A beer in one hand, (possibly a cigar in the other), very little clothing (you probably just rolled out of bed) and beautiful scenery in the background...sign me up for what ever it is that you do for a living;P
That's pretty close. I'm sitting on the deck at my cottage after an afternoon swim. I'm enjoying a Kilkenny in one hand and a Cuban Cohiba in the other. I can't take any credit for the natural slendour except to say that our family cottaging is of the very rustic variety and so we try to preserve as much of Mother Nature as we can. Our cottage is sorrounded by trees and has a great view of the lake being up on a hill about fifty feet above the water. Someday I'll put some photos together that really show it off. Thanks. :) Chris Meech It's much easier to get rich telling people what they want to hear. Chistopher Duncan I can't help getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Roger Wright I've been meaning to change my sig. Thanks! Alvaro Mendez
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Rohit Sinha wrote: You can't stop money. It keeps moving, even when you think you have locked it in a bank. I understand exactly what you are saying but what do the 50 people who loose theirs job this week do while waiting for this money to trickle back into the economy? Rohit Sinha wrote: Money used wisely creates more money and more jobs. I wish that we could trust company executives to actually use the money wisely. [^]
Of course it's bad for the people losing their jobs. I hope it doesn't happen to too many people, and those who have already lost jobs get new ones soon. I was talking about the overall picture. But what you say is extremely valid of course, and must be dealt with too. But hostility is not the answer, that's what I was saying. Competition yes, rivalry no. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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Of course it's bad for the people losing their jobs. I hope it doesn't happen to too many people, and those who have already lost jobs get new ones soon. I was talking about the overall picture. But what you say is extremely valid of course, and must be dealt with too. But hostility is not the answer, that's what I was saying. Competition yes, rivalry no. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Competition is good. That, in my opinion, is what makes a strong economy. The problem is as I mentioned earlier, I can’t compete with somebody who is willing to do my job for $8.00/hour. That just simply puts me "out of business". If I’m competing for business with Joe Programmer down the street who has roughly the same overhead costs that I have and Joe lowers his price then I most likely can also lower my price or sell myself as a better programmer and keep my price a few dollars higher. If I’m charging more than twice as much as Joe simply because I have overhead costs that Joe may not have then it would be pretty hard to say that my work is more than twice as good as Joe’s work because Joe is also a very good programmer. ...I hope you understand my point. I know that I sometimes ramble on and on:-D Rohit Sinha wrote: Competition yes, rivalry no. ...you know how Americans are. We like a good fight:rolleyes:
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Competition is good. That, in my opinion, is what makes a strong economy. The problem is as I mentioned earlier, I can’t compete with somebody who is willing to do my job for $8.00/hour. That just simply puts me "out of business". If I’m competing for business with Joe Programmer down the street who has roughly the same overhead costs that I have and Joe lowers his price then I most likely can also lower my price or sell myself as a better programmer and keep my price a few dollars higher. If I’m charging more than twice as much as Joe simply because I have overhead costs that Joe may not have then it would be pretty hard to say that my work is more than twice as good as Joe’s work because Joe is also a very good programmer. ...I hope you understand my point. I know that I sometimes ramble on and on:-D Rohit Sinha wrote: Competition yes, rivalry no. ...you know how Americans are. We like a good fight:rolleyes:
Brad Fackrell wrote: If I’m charging more than twice as much as Joe simply because I have overhead costs that Joe may not have then it would be pretty hard to say that my work is more than twice as good as Joe’s work because Joe is also a very good programmer. Good point, but then there are other things you can sell yourself on. Location/proximity, domain knowledge, etc. Basically you have to show that the total value you have to offer is more than the Joe programmer. Money is only a part of the total value you can offer. Prove to the client that you are indeed more skilled. Show him how you can fix problems and respond to their needs quicker and in a more effective manner simply because you are there in the neighbourhood. Communication barriers are not there since you and your client natively speak the same language and in the same accent. And remember, it's not only the total value value itself, but the perception of the value that you create about yourself, that works for you. And your sales skills, as Christopher pointed out. I'm not asking you to lie, but to present it in a manner that best highlights your good points, from the POV of the client. You have to show him that it's in his own interest to hire you rather than Joe. Brad Fackrell wrote: ...you know how Americans are. We like a good fight Arrrrr, and you shall get one! :cool: :rolleyes: Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa