Religous signs
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I don't think they should pass such a law. Just because a school is public doesn't mean it should ban religious expression amongst the students. Unless the religious display is a t-shirt that says "Jesus can kick Buddhas ASS!" or something like that then it should be allowed (provided it doesn't violate other rules like say too much jewelry or no t-shirts with slogans, etc.)
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President Jacques Chirac has denounced Muslim headscarves on schoolgirls as offensive and expressed concern about Islamic fundamentalism as momentum builds up in France to bar all religious symbols from public schools. Speaking on a visit to Tunisia on Friday, Chirac said the strictly secular French state could not let pupils wear what he called "ostentatious signs of religious proselytism" and saw "something aggressive" in the wearing of traditional Muslim veils. <Nothing to do with my personal opinion on the topic> I can only imagine the world-wide uproar if GWB had made these statements!! The democrats would be screaming impeachment. </Nothing to do with my personal opinion on the topic> <My opinion> All public school kids should wear uniforms to school. No designer clothes. No gang colors or symbols. No religious symbols of any kind. </My opinion> All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
Mike Mullikin wrote: All public school kids should wear uniforms to school. No designer clothes. No gang colors or symbols. No religious symbols of any kind. I wore a uniform to School and at the time I hated it. However I am now in favour. No designer clothes: Kids don't compete with each other on who has the most expensive trainers or the coolest clothes. No gang colours or symbols: "Gang" can also be replaced with "football" colours (which in some cities can be highly flamable). When I was at school one of the older kids once pinned me against a wall and asked if I was a Hearts (Heart of Midlothain - Protestant) or Hibs (Hibernian - Catholic) supporter. (Actually I was neither, as I didn't care for football). Thank that I recalled that he wore purple (of Hearts) during the PE lessons and answered "right".... Curiously I recently heard that he is now a Police Officer in the North of England now. No religious symbols: As far as I am concerned it is up to the individual which religion he or she should belong to. School should not impose it. If anyone should it is the parents. If a parent wants their child to have religious lessons at school then they can pay to send them to a special school. No Religious symbols can also be no political symbols here too (and that should also go for the teachers). I recall an English lesson where the interpretation exercise was based on a newspaper article called "In the Blue corner and in the Red Corner" about the Conservative and Labour paries in Britain. The teacher asked a loaded question and I stupidly rose to the bait. She asked "Which party promoted greater freedom?" :omg: Well, she was a staunch socialise and I was going through my "somewhere to the far right of Margaret Thather phase" :-O (as my father once put it) and sparks flew. --Colin Mackay--
"In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins - not through strength but perseverance." (H. Jackson Brown) Enumerators in .NET: See how to customise foreach loops with C#
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I don't think they should pass such a law. Just because a school is public doesn't mean it should ban religious expression amongst the students. Unless the religious display is a t-shirt that says "Jesus can kick Buddhas ASS!" or something like that then it should be allowed (provided it doesn't violate other rules like say too much jewelry or no t-shirts with slogans, etc.)
Terry O`Nolley wrote: Just because a school is public doesn't mean it should ban religious expression amongst the students Isn't it nonetheless the best way to keep the system secular, and let religious conflicts as outside of school as possible? Can a secular school tolerate religious propaganda?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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KaЯl wrote: propaganda arguments for extremist parties We cannot allow them to dictate what's right and wrong otherways they win. The French culture is invaded. It is a fact. They have to accept it. Let us make sure we keep your grand mother's recipe of cassoulet and whatever that makes us truly French. We also have a history of religious intolerance and oppression and that's something I would happily see fade away! KaЯl wrote: Is "surprized" the correct word, or would that be "delighted" instead? In the face of beauty, who is not thankful and delighted?
BadJerry wrote: The French culture is invaded. It is a fact No, I don't think so. IMHO, french culture has always been a mix of different influences. Being not static, it still evolves by integrating new external elements. As the US, we are a kind of cultural Borgs assimilating other cultures to make a new one. BadJerry wrote: We also have a history of religious intolerance and oppression and that's something I would happily see fade away! That's why the subject is so sensitive, I presume.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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Terry O`Nolley wrote: Just because a school is public doesn't mean it should ban religious expression amongst the students Isn't it nonetheless the best way to keep the system secular, and let religious conflicts as outside of school as possible? Can a secular school tolerate religious propaganda?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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Terry O`Nolley wrote: Just because a school is public doesn't mean it should ban religious expression amongst the students Isn't it nonetheless the best way to keep the system secular, and let religious conflicts as outside of school as possible? Can a secular school tolerate religious propaganda?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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By the way, I cannot believe I am ganging against you with Terry! I love codeproject! Anything can happen!
BadJerry wrote: ganging I mistread this word at first, and then the mental image I saw forced me to verify. Thanks God, I was wrong! :rolleyes: BadJerry wrote: I am ganging against you with Terry Shame, shame on you! ;):laugh:
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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KaЯl wrote: BadJerry wrote: Most Americans I know are surprised to see naked breasts on the French beaches Is "surprized" the correct word, or would that be "delighted" instead? It all depends on the breasts. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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BadJerry wrote: ganging I mistread this word at first, and then the mental image I saw forced me to verify. Thanks God, I was wrong! :rolleyes: BadJerry wrote: I am ganging against you with Terry Shame, shame on you! ;):laugh:
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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There's a great debate there about the necessity to make a new law forbidding schoolboys and schoolgirls to wear ostentatious religious signs (cf. http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=int&page=news_inhalt&news_id=4521696[^]) What's your opinion on the subject?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
I have no problem with people wearing symbols of their faith in public, nor with public institutions displaying religious symbols, so long as there is no government pressure applied to influence the beliefs of the people. We have periodic flaps here when some nutcase or other decides that religious quotes on buildings, or religious words spoken in a public school somehow violate the principle of separation. We also get nonsense like this case over traditional garb worn to school or work. Humbug! If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. There is absolutely no difference, except perhaps that the beer ads are more blatant. Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. What a transparent ninny - why do you put up with him? He can't even properly oppress minorities! "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
There's a great debate there about the necessity to make a new law forbidding schoolboys and schoolgirls to wear ostentatious religious signs (cf. http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=int&page=news_inhalt&news_id=4521696[^]) What's your opinion on the subject?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
Christians entering a Moslem temple take off their shoes. Moslems entering a Christian church don't do so ostentatiously proclaiming Allah. If the French are so hell bent on removing all religion from school then they should maybe do it that way. Ask for tolerance, ask for respect to be given by those entering school grounds. Proclaim it a center of knowledge, one not to be biased by religious preference. Knowledge and the pursuit of it is holy. Though I think creating generic school kids is bad. Kids should be exposed to many cultures right from the start, become comfortable with it. My cousin teaches at a diplomatic school in Zimbabwe and there the kids rock up in their traditional garb. They learn about the world from their peers. Intolerant kids are very rare, even with intolerant parents because they start young and are asked to respect their peers. Maybe too much too hope when the teachers in most schools are just trying to make a living and get through the day. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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I have no problem with people wearing symbols of their faith in public, nor with public institutions displaying religious symbols, so long as there is no government pressure applied to influence the beliefs of the people. We have periodic flaps here when some nutcase or other decides that religious quotes on buildings, or religious words spoken in a public school somehow violate the principle of separation. We also get nonsense like this case over traditional garb worn to school or work. Humbug! If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. There is absolutely no difference, except perhaps that the beer ads are more blatant. Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. What a transparent ninny - why do you put up with him? He can't even properly oppress minorities! "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: What a transparent ninny - why do you put up with him? He can't even properly oppress minorities! :laugh: :laugh: So true! Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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I have no problem with people wearing symbols of their faith in public, nor with public institutions displaying religious symbols, so long as there is no government pressure applied to influence the beliefs of the people. We have periodic flaps here when some nutcase or other decides that religious quotes on buildings, or religious words spoken in a public school somehow violate the principle of separation. We also get nonsense like this case over traditional garb worn to school or work. Humbug! If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. There is absolutely no difference, except perhaps that the beer ads are more blatant. Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. What a transparent ninny - why do you put up with him? He can't even properly oppress minorities! "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
I have no problem with people wearing symbols of their faith in public, nor with public institutions displaying religious symbols, so long as there is no government pressure applied to influence the beliefs of the people. We have periodic flaps here when some nutcase or other decides that religious quotes on buildings, or religious words spoken in a public school somehow violate the principle of separation. We also get nonsense like this case over traditional garb worn to school or work. Humbug! If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. There is absolutely no difference, except perhaps that the beer ads are more blatant. Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. What a transparent ninny - why do you put up with him? He can't even properly oppress minorities! "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."I never heard about a beer brand asking to persecute non drinkers, or drinkers of another brand :) Roger Wright wrote: Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up This is not only Chirac. There's quiet a consensus on the question from the left to the right wing. Roger Wright wrote: why do you put up with him To be honest, I voted for him once, for the last presidential election. But at this time we had the choice between him (a man I consider as a demagogic blunderer) and a neo-fascist, racist, anti-semit candidate. It was a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, for me not voting being not an option.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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There's a great debate there about the necessity to make a new law forbidding schoolboys and schoolgirls to wear ostentatious religious signs (cf. http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=int&page=news_inhalt&news_id=4521696[^]) What's your opinion on the subject?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
First thought: We are the Borg, religion is futile, diversity is futile. You will be assimilated!
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
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I never heard about a beer brand asking to persecute non drinkers, or drinkers of another brand :) Roger Wright wrote: Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up This is not only Chirac. There's quiet a consensus on the question from the left to the right wing. Roger Wright wrote: why do you put up with him To be honest, I voted for him once, for the last presidential election. But at this time we had the choice between him (a man I consider as a demagogic blunderer) and a neo-fascist, racist, anti-semit candidate. It was a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, for me not voting being not an option.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
KaЯl wrote: not voting being not an option I agree - it's a duty for me. If you don't exercise a choice when given the opportunity, you have no right to bitch about the outcome; I love to bitch. KaЯl wrote: I voted for him once Heck, we all make mistakes. I not only voted for Nixon, I worked on his campaign committee!:-O "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
I have no problem with people wearing symbols of their faith in public, nor with public institutions displaying religious symbols, so long as there is no government pressure applied to influence the beliefs of the people. We have periodic flaps here when some nutcase or other decides that religious quotes on buildings, or religious words spoken in a public school somehow violate the principle of separation. We also get nonsense like this case over traditional garb worn to school or work. Humbug! If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. There is absolutely no difference, except perhaps that the beer ads are more blatant. Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. What a transparent ninny - why do you put up with him? He can't even properly oppress minorities! "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. In most public schools (in the US) t-shirts that advertise beer are banned. :rolleyes: Roger Wright wrote: Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. Sounds like you spent a little too much time in California. ;P Sometimes tolerance doesn't mean letting everybody do anything. Take away the veil and the "little muslim girl" becomes the "little girl". Take away the gold cross and the "little catholic girl" becomes the "little girl". Take away the yarmulke and the "little jewish boy" becomes a "little boy". The fewer stereotypes and biases we place between children and learning the better. All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
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KaЯl wrote: not voting being not an option I agree - it's a duty for me. If you don't exercise a choice when given the opportunity, you have no right to bitch about the outcome; I love to bitch. KaЯl wrote: I voted for him once Heck, we all make mistakes. I not only voted for Nixon, I worked on his campaign committee!:-O "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: I love to bitch. In my arms, brother! :-D Roger Wright wrote: I worked on his campaign committee Roger Wright, aka Deep Throat? :rolleyes:
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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First thought: We are the Borg, religion is futile, diversity is futile. You will be assimilated!
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blog -
Roger Wright wrote: If we ban symbols of religious faith in public, then we should ban t-shirts that advertise beer, as well. In most public schools (in the US) t-shirts that advertise beer are banned. :rolleyes: Roger Wright wrote: Chirac is, in this instance, clearly attempting to stomp on the Islamic faith and is extending the ban to all religious symbols to cover it up. Sounds like you spent a little too much time in California. ;P Sometimes tolerance doesn't mean letting everybody do anything. Take away the veil and the "little muslim girl" becomes the "little girl". Take away the gold cross and the "little catholic girl" becomes the "little girl". Take away the yarmulke and the "little jewish boy" becomes a "little boy". The fewer stereotypes and biases we place between children and learning the better. All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
I agree! -- I can't resist a touch of evil.