Religous signs
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Currently, New Glarus Coffee Stout, Pearl Street Brewery Downtown Nut Brown, Leinenkugel's Red Lager, and the Goose Island Breer Company's Hex Nut Brown. Or did you mean, "among other people"...? ;)
Shog9 ---
You'd better turn back, before the frost sets in. These desert nights are for weathered men, The ones who've already given in...
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: If kids have been all alone without parents, it probably wouldn't have mattered much. But the thing is that kids are fed with stereotypes in their homes. If you remove the images to which the stereotypes are associated with, the kids won't become as ignorant as their parents are. Q: How will preventing kids from wearing certain clothes stop parents from feeding steroptypes to kids? A: It won't. On the other hand, when they see and interact with kids of other ethnic backgrounds than theirs, they will grow up to be more tolerant than they would have otherwise. Dad, you told me Muslims are evil. But Javed in my school is a Muslim and is a real cool guy. He showed me how to hold a Cricket bat. Javed is now my best friend, dad. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: If we're going to break these barriers of intolerance between cultures, we need to break it at an early age, and we need to demonstrate that there is not that big of a difference between a catholic boy and a jewish boy. They just do different things on sundays and saturdays. Right. For that to happen however, we need to show them right from the beginning that both Albert and Paul are cool guys, even though they belong to different religions. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Tricky question, so I'm going to answer your question with another question; would you rather have them not being friends because of whatever falsenesses they've been taught elsewhere, or because they simply don't have anything in common? I'd rather have them get back to the source of the falsenesses and educate them too. Just because daddy is ignorant, doesn't mean he has to be this way forever. Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Rohit Sinha wrote: Q: How will preventing kids from wearing certain clothes stop parents from feeding steroptypes to kids? A: It won't. No but it'll fuel the fire that's already burning. Suffocate the fire instead! :) Rohit Sinha wrote: Dad, you told me Muslims are evil. But Javed in my school is a Muslim and is a real cool guy. He showed me how to hold a Cricket bat. Javed is now my best friend, dad. How many young boys do you know who dares standing up against their fathers at that age? Especially in a family where the kids are taught to avoid "different" kids? The father is, almost regardless of what culture he's from, the "head honcho" knowing what is best for their children. Sadly, in many cases it's the reverse. Rohit Sinha wrote: I'd rather have them get back to the source of the falsenesses and educate them too. Just because daddy is ignorant, doesn't mean he has to be this way forever. Older generations are, in my oppionion, doomed already. To coin a cliché; you can't teach an old dog to sit. Only little by little for each new generation, can you make a change. And I think school is the best place to start. And I do think the best question kids should ask at their first day in school is "what's your name?" instead of "why do you cover your head with a blanket?". Lastly, I just want to say that in an ideal world, I would agree with you. But this is unfortunately an imperfect world full of imperfect people, too blinded by their own preconceptions that they cannot see their own errors. -- I can't resist a touch of evil.
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President Jacques Chirac has denounced Muslim headscarves on schoolgirls as offensive and expressed concern about Islamic fundamentalism as momentum builds up in France to bar all religious symbols from public schools. Speaking on a visit to Tunisia on Friday, Chirac said the strictly secular French state could not let pupils wear what he called "ostentatious signs of religious proselytism" and saw "something aggressive" in the wearing of traditional Muslim veils. <Nothing to do with my personal opinion on the topic> I can only imagine the world-wide uproar if GWB had made these statements!! The democrats would be screaming impeachment. </Nothing to do with my personal opinion on the topic> <My opinion> All public school kids should wear uniforms to school. No designer clothes. No gang colors or symbols. No religious symbols of any kind. </My opinion> All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
Mike Mullikin wrote: All public school kids should wear uniforms to school. No designer clothes. No gang colors or symbols. No religious symbols of any kind. No individuality, no expression, no right to be an individual. That'll keep kids in school, and teach them valuable lessons about society. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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There's a great debate there about the necessity to make a new law forbidding schoolboys and schoolgirls to wear ostentatious religious signs (cf. http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=int&page=news_inhalt&news_id=4521696[^]) What's your opinion on the subject?
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
Would that then include no posting of Christmas or Chanukah decorations during the yuletide?
"Myths and the magic, Triumphant and tragic, A mechanized world out of hand. "
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I'll have a hard time to find and taste them! no :)
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
Should you ever have the time and opportunity, these links may help you: New Glarus Brewing[^] Pearl Street Brewery[^] Jacob Leinenkugel Brewing Company[^] Goose Island Beer Company[^]
Shog9 ---
You'd better turn back, before the frost sets in. These desert nights are for weathered men, The ones who've already given in...
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Q: How will preventing kids from wearing certain clothes stop parents from feeding steroptypes to kids? A: It won't. No but it'll fuel the fire that's already burning. Suffocate the fire instead! :) Rohit Sinha wrote: Dad, you told me Muslims are evil. But Javed in my school is a Muslim and is a real cool guy. He showed me how to hold a Cricket bat. Javed is now my best friend, dad. How many young boys do you know who dares standing up against their fathers at that age? Especially in a family where the kids are taught to avoid "different" kids? The father is, almost regardless of what culture he's from, the "head honcho" knowing what is best for their children. Sadly, in many cases it's the reverse. Rohit Sinha wrote: I'd rather have them get back to the source of the falsenesses and educate them too. Just because daddy is ignorant, doesn't mean he has to be this way forever. Older generations are, in my oppionion, doomed already. To coin a cliché; you can't teach an old dog to sit. Only little by little for each new generation, can you make a change. And I think school is the best place to start. And I do think the best question kids should ask at their first day in school is "what's your name?" instead of "why do you cover your head with a blanket?". Lastly, I just want to say that in an ideal world, I would agree with you. But this is unfortunately an imperfect world full of imperfect people, too blinded by their own preconceptions that they cannot see their own errors. -- I can't resist a touch of evil.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: No but it'll fuel the fire that's already burning. Suffocate the fire instead! What fire? If all that people do is teach their kids to hate, the problem is something else, and must be dealt with accordingly. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: And I do think the best question kids should ask at their first day in school is "what's your name?" instead of "why do you cover your head with a blanket?". What, and lose a perfect learning opportunity? What's wrong about asking about the religion and culture of others? Kids can learn so much about each other's culture by asking each other directly than from any book. Besides, it's better they ask such questions to each other as kids than as grown ups. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Lastly, I just want to say that in an ideal world, I would agree with you. Thank you for agreeing with me. ;P I'd say this is an ideal world. It couldn't get any better. :-D Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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Mike Mullikin wrote: All public school kids should wear uniforms to school. No designer clothes. No gang colors or symbols. No religious symbols of any kind. No individuality, no expression, no right to be an individual. That'll keep kids in school, and teach them valuable lessons about society. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Well, it is futile. Religious clothing does nothing but providing friction and intolerance. It sets you apart from the other guy without even having to talk to him. Stereotypes breed intolerance. When you see a guy with a turban, don't you automatically think "there's a guy who probably hates the USA"? Chances are that he does, but also that he doesn't. But that doesn't matter, because you've already judged him (consciously or not) using the stereotype defined by your culture. Take away the clothing in school, and the kids will get to know eachother on a personal basis, and not by their cultural heritage. Sure, the kids will find out about eachothers cultural heritage in due time, but if they're already friends, it's probably easier to accept and embrace the other culture. -- I can't resist a touch of evil.
Schools should take time to educate children on different cultures more. They should encourage children to discuss their cultural differences. Your cultural heritage is such a basic part of your character and personality, it should not be separated out as being unfit for public discussion.
"Myths and the magic, Triumphant and tragic, A mechanized world out of hand. "
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Would that then include no posting of Christmas or Chanukah decorations during the yuletide?
"Myths and the magic, Triumphant and tragic, A mechanized world out of hand. "
Ther's no such thing in public schools, at least with religious symbols. There may be a christmas tree, garlands and santa claus, but there's no direct reference to the birth of Jesus.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
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Christian Graus wrote: no right to be an individual. Or maybe it teaches them that there are other expressions of individuality other than what you wear? Eco
Eco Jones wrote: Or maybe it teaches them that there are other expressions of individuality other than what you wear? You think that once everyone looks like a clone, they will feel allowed to express themselves in other ways ? Why ? Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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If you don't want kids to compete at all, might as well take away all extracurricular activites such as sports and chess team, take away the whole grading system and make sure to let more idiots get their undeserved high school diplomas. It sucks to be made fun of or beat up because of what you believe in (hey I was given shit for being an Atheist in a public school), but I do believe that kids still need a sense of indiviuality in their lives. If they're made to believe things are only a set way and that they can't think individually when they are sorrounded by their peers, they feel like there is little hope for them otherwise in the world. And if they truly have something they believe in, thehn get criticised for it, they must learn to conform, or stand up for themselves. That's what seperates themselves from the others. I don't believe in facism in any way. Whether you go to public or private school, you have to deal facism one or another. And doing your best to not have to conform to those facist beliefs is what makes you a true individual.
Who am I? Currently: A Programming Student trying to survive school (especially this semester). Working on an outside project: A game for the GamePark32 (GP32) portable gaming console. My website: www.GP32US.com
nssone wrote: I don't believe in facism in any way. Are you for fucking real? Yeah, let's let the kids vote for changes to the education system democractic-republic style, because after all, they have the knowledge and experience to make informed choices. Waitaminute, that's why they're at school to begin with - to get knowledge and experience. And part of that knowledge should certainly be learning that judging people on appearances is not a productive thing to do, and that individuality doesn't have to be about wearing a slightly different braclet than Tammy or buying green sweatpants from the Gap(tm) and not Old Navy(tm). Eco
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Should you ever have the time and opportunity, these links may help you: New Glarus Brewing[^] Pearl Street Brewery[^] Jacob Leinenkugel Brewing Company[^] Goose Island Beer Company[^]
Shog9 ---
You'd better turn back, before the frost sets in. These desert nights are for weathered men, The ones who've already given in...
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Ther's no such thing in public schools, at least with religious symbols. There may be a christmas tree, garlands and santa claus, but there's no direct reference to the birth of Jesus.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
But a veil is a direct reference to Mohammad? [EDIT]Besides, a Christmas tree, garlands and Santa Claus still are related to Christianity.[/EDIT] Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
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Eco Jones wrote: Or maybe it teaches them that there are other expressions of individuality other than what you wear? You think that once everyone looks like a clone, they will feel allowed to express themselves in other ways ? Why ? Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: You think that once everyone looks like a clone, they will feel allowed to express themselves in other ways ? Why ? Gee, I dunno, because they can paint and write and sing and choose different things to do like sports or cooking classes or needlepoint or martial arts or learn the linguistics of Ancient Egypt. Or we can send the kids to the Gap after school so that they spend all the time they would have spent above being worried that their clothes aren't 'trendy' enough. The pressure to conform to an arbitrary image should be eliminated so kids can concentrate on things they might actually like and that will eventually make them more well-rounded members of society. Eco
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Ther's no such thing in public schools, at least with religious symbols. There may be a christmas tree, garlands and santa claus, but there's no direct reference to the birth of Jesus.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien
but in this day and age I would think these symbols are associated exclusively with Christmas, which is a Christian holiday. So the direct reference to Christ is not there, but few people mistake what is being celebrated.
"Myths and the magic, Triumphant and tragic, A mechanized world out of hand. "
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Mike Mullikin wrote: All public school kids should wear uniforms to school. No designer clothes. No gang colors or symbols. No religious symbols of any kind. No individuality, no expression, no right to be an individual. That'll keep kids in school, and teach them valuable lessons about society. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: No individuality, no expression, no right to be an individual. For the 40 hours a week they're attending classes they can do without - for the greater good. They can be individuals the other 128 hours. Christian Graus wrote: That'll keep kids in school, and teach them valuable lessons about society. Studies have proven time and again that schools with uniforms actually produce fewer drop-outs. As for lessons about society... what lessons do they learn now? Gee, Susie wears Guess jeans and all the boys think she is hot! I better wear Guess jeans too! Hmmm.... Susie smokes pot and uses cocaine too?? All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
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If you don't want kids to compete at all, might as well take away all extracurricular activites such as sports and chess team, take away the whole grading system and make sure to let more idiots get their undeserved high school diplomas. It sucks to be made fun of or beat up because of what you believe in (hey I was given shit for being an Atheist in a public school), but I do believe that kids still need a sense of indiviuality in their lives. If they're made to believe things are only a set way and that they can't think individually when they are sorrounded by their peers, they feel like there is little hope for them otherwise in the world. And if they truly have something they believe in, thehn get criticised for it, they must learn to conform, or stand up for themselves. That's what seperates themselves from the others. I don't believe in facism in any way. Whether you go to public or private school, you have to deal facism one or another. And doing your best to not have to conform to those facist beliefs is what makes you a true individual.
Who am I? Currently: A Programming Student trying to survive school (especially this semester). Working on an outside project: A game for the GamePark32 (GP32) portable gaming console. My website: www.GP32US.com
nssone wrote: If you don't want kids to compete at all, might as well take away all extracurricular activites such as sports and chess team, take away the whole grading system and make sure to let more idiots get their undeserved high school diplomas Isn't that already happening? :confused:
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
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Christian Graus wrote: You think that once everyone looks like a clone, they will feel allowed to express themselves in other ways ? Why ? Gee, I dunno, because they can paint and write and sing and choose different things to do like sports or cooking classes or needlepoint or martial arts or learn the linguistics of Ancient Egypt. Or we can send the kids to the Gap after school so that they spend all the time they would have spent above being worried that their clothes aren't 'trendy' enough. The pressure to conform to an arbitrary image should be eliminated so kids can concentrate on things they might actually like and that will eventually make them more well-rounded members of society. Eco
Eco Jones wrote: Gee, I dunno, because they can paint and write and sing and choose different things to do like sports or cooking classes or needlepoint or martial arts or learn the linguistics of Ancient Egypt. So people can have whatever interests they like, so long as they look and act the same ? Eco Jones wrote: Or we can send the kids to the Gap What's that ? Eco Jones wrote: The pressure to conform to an arbitrary image should be eliminated so kids can concentrate on things they might actually like and that will eventually make them more well-rounded members of society. I agree - so why give them an arbitrary image and force them to conform to it ? How is this not a contradiction of what you first said ? Not every kid feels pressured to wear designer clothes, you know, and the ones that do, see each other AFTER school, where they will feel the same pressure. It becomes MORE of a big deal when the inevitable free clothes day comes, IMO. I went to several schools and I never once felt any pressure to wear anything apart from what I wanted to ( blue jeans and a Metallica t-shirt ). Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Christian Graus wrote: No individuality, no expression, no right to be an individual. For the 40 hours a week they're attending classes they can do without - for the greater good. They can be individuals the other 128 hours. Christian Graus wrote: That'll keep kids in school, and teach them valuable lessons about society. Studies have proven time and again that schools with uniforms actually produce fewer drop-outs. As for lessons about society... what lessons do they learn now? Gee, Susie wears Guess jeans and all the boys think she is hot! I better wear Guess jeans too! Hmmm.... Susie smokes pot and uses cocaine too?? All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
Mike Mullikin wrote: For the 40 hours a week they're attending classes they can do without - for the greater good. What greater good is that ? Mike Mullikin wrote: Studies have proven time and again that schools with uniforms actually produce fewer drop-outs. Across a wide range of all other factors ? Mike Mullikin wrote: As for lessons about society... what lessons do they learn now? Probably none, values are politically incorrect nowadays, schools won't even tell a kid they failed to pass a subject or unit. Mike Mullikin wrote: Gee, Susie wears Guess jeans and all the boys think she is hot! I better wear Guess jeans too! Hmmm.... It's not the jeans that make the boys think that, it's the way she fills them. Mike Mullikin wrote: Susie smokes pot and uses cocaine too?? Peer pressure with regard to things like drugs will exist no matter what kids wear to school. The only defence is to teach the kids at home, and that's no guarentee, either. In any case, pot does less harm than alcohol, so any household that is anti drugs and the parents drink is just teaching the kids hypocrisy. They can see through that. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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But a veil is a direct reference to Mohammad? [EDIT]Besides, a Christmas tree, garlands and Santa Claus still are related to Christianity.[/EDIT] Regards, Rohit Sinha Browsy
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
AFAIK, the Christmas tree is the assimilation of a pagan ritual by protestant Christians to defy the Catholic Church, condemning this pagan symbol. And the Catholic Church is also not very happy with the myth of Santa Claus, for the same reason of paganism. Now these symbols are more traditional than really religious.
Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Tous les remords n'y changeront rien Le temps se perd, "Si" n'existe pas Donc à présent le choix reste mien