Micro$oft
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You seem to be ignorant in the Open Source matter. 1. Linux developers are not poor. They make a good money and they can afford to make some software for fun and give it for free. Unix/Linux jobs can pay much better than a Windows jobs pretty often, specially if you count all those cheap VB and C# programmers into the pool to count awerage. 2. Free software is about the freedom, not the price. You are allowed to charge for the distribution, support, consultancy, transfer media, whatever. But you can't charge for the software(that is source code) itself - because software is free (but not always free of charge). If you make a changes - you have to show them and often mark those. No hidden API and other dirty tricks we've all seen from Microsoft. 3. It's actually the other way round - free software is forcing the Microsoft to give their software cheaper.
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I think you will find that most people are using this site because they use VC++ at work. Their companies are using VC++ as it is the best development tool for Windows. Everyone is using Windows as it has a huge if not monopolistic share of the market. They don't use Microsoft products because they love Microsoft it's because this way they have the biggest market to sell too. Generally the tallest poppy is the target of attacks. Microsofts history of strongarming companies and customers alike hasn't made them everybodies favourite. Personally I couldn't give a fuck if they all disappeared up Bill Gate's arsehole. I will start developing for whoever rises to the top. I can't understand why people see Microsoft in the same light as Ghandi/Martin Luther King etc. Their there for the money not the good of the world or us. That ought to earn me a shitload of This Helped votes. Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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Why doe$ it bother you thi$ much? What'$ gotten you $o riled up? Everyone is aware of Microsoft's motivation - in America, we call this capitalism - the pursuit of the American dream (although gates caught up with and passed the American dream a LONG time ago). To the little guys (anyone other than Microsoft) who pay for the product, Microsoft is a bad guy. I personally think they ask too much for their software. For example, I have four computers at home. I would need at least one copy of WinXP/Pro and the others could get away (I think) with XP/Home. This means JUST THE OS cost for those systems would be $900. If all of my existing hardware and software on those systems is compatible with XP, that's where the costs would end, but that's likely not the case. My SCSI scanner is already useless on Win2k (I had to buy another SCSI card and move the scanner to a Win98 system). The card cost $100 (Adaptec 2940). When I upgraded to Win2k on my main machine, my CD writer software was no longer compatible. Chalk up another $90 for that. I wonder what would happen if I upgraded to XP? How about my tape backup software? That would probably need an update too. How many of my games (and my wife's games) won't work under XP? If any of hers stop working, I'll get no end of grief and I'll just end up putting Win98 back on her machine. ($200 wasted on a XP license at that point). So, if I need a separate license for each machine, what's the driving force to purchase the "Pro" version of MSDN? For $1100, you get "all of the OS's", the 3-CD MSDN set, and VS.NET. Well, I've already got XP, so why can't I buy MSDN with VS.NET and just skip the bloody OS CD's? Does VS.NET come with the full 3-CD MSDN set already, or is it an extra cost item? I think we'd all only need one guess. Now, I wonder why everyone calls them "Micro$oft", or "M$"? To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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Why doe$ it bother you thi$ much? What'$ gotten you $o riled up? Everyone is aware of Microsoft's motivation - in America, we call this capitalism - the pursuit of the American dream (although gates caught up with and passed the American dream a LONG time ago). To the little guys (anyone other than Microsoft) who pay for the product, Microsoft is a bad guy. I personally think they ask too much for their software. For example, I have four computers at home. I would need at least one copy of WinXP/Pro and the others could get away (I think) with XP/Home. This means JUST THE OS cost for those systems would be $900. If all of my existing hardware and software on those systems is compatible with XP, that's where the costs would end, but that's likely not the case. My SCSI scanner is already useless on Win2k (I had to buy another SCSI card and move the scanner to a Win98 system). The card cost $100 (Adaptec 2940). When I upgraded to Win2k on my main machine, my CD writer software was no longer compatible. Chalk up another $90 for that. I wonder what would happen if I upgraded to XP? How about my tape backup software? That would probably need an update too. How many of my games (and my wife's games) won't work under XP? If any of hers stop working, I'll get no end of grief and I'll just end up putting Win98 back on her machine. ($200 wasted on a XP license at that point). So, if I need a separate license for each machine, what's the driving force to purchase the "Pro" version of MSDN? For $1100, you get "all of the OS's", the 3-CD MSDN set, and VS.NET. Well, I've already got XP, so why can't I buy MSDN with VS.NET and just skip the bloody OS CD's? Does VS.NET come with the full 3-CD MSDN set already, or is it an extra cost item? I think we'd all only need one guess. Now, I wonder why everyone calls them "Micro$oft", or "M$"? To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
Logical, well constructed arguements. Stayed on topic. No mention of goats, latex or guns. Have you been hacked again John? Or are you taking your medication? :-D Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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Why doe$ it bother you thi$ much? What'$ gotten you $o riled up? Everyone is aware of Microsoft's motivation - in America, we call this capitalism - the pursuit of the American dream (although gates caught up with and passed the American dream a LONG time ago). To the little guys (anyone other than Microsoft) who pay for the product, Microsoft is a bad guy. I personally think they ask too much for their software. For example, I have four computers at home. I would need at least one copy of WinXP/Pro and the others could get away (I think) with XP/Home. This means JUST THE OS cost for those systems would be $900. If all of my existing hardware and software on those systems is compatible with XP, that's where the costs would end, but that's likely not the case. My SCSI scanner is already useless on Win2k (I had to buy another SCSI card and move the scanner to a Win98 system). The card cost $100 (Adaptec 2940). When I upgraded to Win2k on my main machine, my CD writer software was no longer compatible. Chalk up another $90 for that. I wonder what would happen if I upgraded to XP? How about my tape backup software? That would probably need an update too. How many of my games (and my wife's games) won't work under XP? If any of hers stop working, I'll get no end of grief and I'll just end up putting Win98 back on her machine. ($200 wasted on a XP license at that point). So, if I need a separate license for each machine, what's the driving force to purchase the "Pro" version of MSDN? For $1100, you get "all of the OS's", the 3-CD MSDN set, and VS.NET. Well, I've already got XP, so why can't I buy MSDN with VS.NET and just skip the bloody OS CD's? Does VS.NET come with the full 3-CD MSDN set already, or is it an extra cost item? I think we'd all only need one guess. Now, I wonder why everyone calls them "Micro$oft", or "M$"? To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
Why doe$ it bother you thi$ much? What'$ gotten you $o riled up? Calm down John. I was merely exploring the myth behind the '$' sign many people use. // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
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I’ve seen this a lot in anti Microsoft sites (like Slashdot) or generally not-so-friendly MS sites (like ZDNet), whenever anything related to Microsoft is mentioned, the letter 'S' being transformed magically into a yummy dollar sign ('$'), such as Micro$oft, M$, M$FT, Window$ … I can understand why an anti-Microsoftie like a Linux zealot would use this sign. Something like the following probably go in their minds about Microsoft when they use the sign.. “A monopoli$t company that $uck$ poor($) Window$ users' hard earned money ($) and makes its founder the richest($) person of the world and thus in turn making us, the Linux developers even poorer($), by forcing us to give away our fine software for free($)….” Now that’s understood, but I wonder why loyal Windows developers in a Microsoft friendly site like this need to decorate the ‘S’ letter (see the comments in this article for proof). Does this mean that we’re not as loyal as Microsoft expects us to be, or has it become a fashion to use this decoration to attract others’ attention? Hmm.. How about a genuine reason that can go something like this.. “Micro$oft is fine company that believe$ in innovation and free market economy ($).. a company that helps us keep surviving ($) and even help some of us make big bucks ($) by providing licen$e to develop on a fine operating system we all know as Window$” Hmm, any other thought? // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
why would you assume that we're all "loyal" to MS? i think MS does a good job in most cases - at least from a developers perspective. but, i am not 'loyal' to them in any way. if someone else came out with a better IDE i'd be on it in a flash. -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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Logical, well constructed arguements. Stayed on topic. No mention of goats, latex or guns. Have you been hacked again John? Or are you taking your medication? :-D Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Logical, well constructed arguements. Stayed on topic. No mention of goats, latex or guns. I voted "This helped".
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
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LOL John. Lets see, Intel, Maxtor, nVidia, MS, IBM are all bad guys because .... OMG ..... I HAD TO PAY MONEY FOR THEIR PRODUCTS!!!!!!!!! Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
I'm not saying that I mind paying for software, I'm saying it costs too damn much. With hardware, if you wait long enough, the price will drop (we can thank AMD for forcing Intel CPU's to start at more sane pricing levels than they used to). Not only that, but hardware has a longer shelf life than software. Lack of competition is the problem. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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I think you will find that most people are using this site because they use VC++ at work. Their companies are using VC++ as it is the best development tool for Windows. Everyone is using Windows as it has a huge if not monopolistic share of the market. They don't use Microsoft products because they love Microsoft it's because this way they have the biggest market to sell too. Generally the tallest poppy is the target of attacks. Microsofts history of strongarming companies and customers alike hasn't made them everybodies favourite. Personally I couldn't give a fuck if they all disappeared up Bill Gate's arsehole. I will start developing for whoever rises to the top. I can't understand why people see Microsoft in the same light as Ghandi/Martin Luther King etc. Their there for the money not the good of the world or us. That ought to earn me a shitload of This Helped votes. Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
I'm with you guys. My loyalty to MS extends no further than my next paycheck. "But, daddy, that was back in the hippie ages..." My twelve year old son - winning the argument. "Stan, you are an intelligent guy who responds in meaningful ways" Paul Watson 16/10/01
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Damn straight Michael. If MS is kicked off the top spot, I will be moving to what makes me money! Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
Exactly - I program (mostly) for the money, not for the fun. I think I'll change my name in CodeProject to $owinski :-D Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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Logical, well constructed arguements. Stayed on topic. No mention of goats, latex or guns. I voted "This helped".
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
I voted "This helped". On which post? Michaels's or John's? :-D Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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I voted "This helped". On which post? Michaels's or John's? :-D Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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1. Linux developers are not poor. This is the real crime with Linux. They have managed to get a bunch of people to buy into this mantra while the top people are making a mint. 2. Free software is about the freedom, not the price. Actually, this is another lie. If you look at the GNU license, it is very very very restrictive. GNU != Freedom. I will never ever use GNU again. I am BSD all the way. 3. free software is forcing the Microsoft to give their software cheaper. So which is it? Free software is about freedom or price? Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
This is the real crime with Linux. They have managed to get a bunch of people to buy into this mantra while the top people are making a mint. Same with M$. Actually, this is another lie. If you look at the GNU license, it is very very very restrictive. GNU != Freedom. And did I say GNU? And it's not a lie - GNU is a problem only for those who would like to use the software but hide the source for some reason. Like a commercial company trying to use GNU but sell the binaries. GNU doesn't restrict the distribution of the source code - it enforces it. Don't like it - don't use it. Here is your freedom. So which is it? Free software is about freedom or price? It's about freedom, however having a freedom gives in a way a choice of getting it for free price, because you can get the code and compile it.
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I'm with you guys. My loyalty to MS extends no further than my next paycheck. "But, daddy, that was back in the hippie ages..." My twelve year old son - winning the argument. "Stan, you are an intelligent guy who responds in meaningful ways" Paul Watson 16/10/01
I'm with you guys. My loyalty to MS extends no further than my next paycheck. And here I was thinking you were in it for love Stan. Damn but I am disappointed, the Elders have strayed from the path. What hope have I? :laugh: Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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I'm not saying that I mind paying for software, I'm saying it costs too damn much. With hardware, if you wait long enough, the price will drop (we can thank AMD for forcing Intel CPU's to start at more sane pricing levels than they used to). Not only that, but hardware has a longer shelf life than software. Lack of competition is the problem. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
With hardware, if you wait long enough, the price will drop It's the same with software: MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11 are pretty damn cheap now! :-D Foot-and-Mouth disease is believed to be the first virus unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook
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Logical, well constructed arguements. Stayed on topic. No mention of goats, latex or guns. I voted "This helped".
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
LOL! cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
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I’ve seen this a lot in anti Microsoft sites (like Slashdot) or generally not-so-friendly MS sites (like ZDNet), whenever anything related to Microsoft is mentioned, the letter 'S' being transformed magically into a yummy dollar sign ('$'), such as Micro$oft, M$, M$FT, Window$ … I can understand why an anti-Microsoftie like a Linux zealot would use this sign. Something like the following probably go in their minds about Microsoft when they use the sign.. “A monopoli$t company that $uck$ poor($) Window$ users' hard earned money ($) and makes its founder the richest($) person of the world and thus in turn making us, the Linux developers even poorer($), by forcing us to give away our fine software for free($)….” Now that’s understood, but I wonder why loyal Windows developers in a Microsoft friendly site like this need to decorate the ‘S’ letter (see the comments in this article for proof). Does this mean that we’re not as loyal as Microsoft expects us to be, or has it become a fashion to use this decoration to attract others’ attention? Hmm.. How about a genuine reason that can go something like this.. “Micro$oft is fine company that believe$ in innovation and free market economy ($).. a company that helps us keep surviving ($) and even help some of us make big bucks ($) by providing licen$e to develop on a fine operating system we all know as Window$” Hmm, any other thought? // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
IMHO a lot of us Micro$oft advocates simply use and evangilise their products because they are very good. Their development tools cannot be beaten, their OS is pretty damned good (especially on the desktop were no other contender is at all competitive), their Office suite is powerful and basically a standard, their browser is excellent and finally they provide a lot of resources, tools, information etc. to us developers which makes developing a charm. Speaking for myself I do not like MS's corporate tactics but then neither do I like BP harming the environment, but I still buy petrol from them. Shoes from Nike who exploit child labour, same thing. I use MS because they earn me a living. I sometimes use M$ beacause they deserve a good ribbing. (hey that rhymes!). If there was a competitor level on the playing field to MS that was ethically more sound then I would use them. But there isn't. There is one thing though that I actually am very impressed and excited about in MS: It is their vision. No other company has the vision and power that they do. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge "In other words, the developer is dealing with an elephant, the accountant is dealing with a bunny rabbit." by Stan Shannon - 16/10/2001
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IMHO a lot of us Micro$oft advocates simply use and evangilise their products because they are very good. Their development tools cannot be beaten, their OS is pretty damned good (especially on the desktop were no other contender is at all competitive), their Office suite is powerful and basically a standard, their browser is excellent and finally they provide a lot of resources, tools, information etc. to us developers which makes developing a charm. Speaking for myself I do not like MS's corporate tactics but then neither do I like BP harming the environment, but I still buy petrol from them. Shoes from Nike who exploit child labour, same thing. I use MS because they earn me a living. I sometimes use M$ beacause they deserve a good ribbing. (hey that rhymes!). If there was a competitor level on the playing field to MS that was ethically more sound then I would use them. But there isn't. There is one thing though that I actually am very impressed and excited about in MS: It is their vision. No other company has the vision and power that they do. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge "In other words, the developer is dealing with an elephant, the accountant is dealing with a bunny rabbit." by Stan Shannon - 16/10/2001
There is one thing though that I actually am very impressed and excited about in MS: It is their vision. No other company has the vision and power that they do. Yeah, if only I had eaten all those carrots when I was younger like my mother told me. Then we'd see who had vision. None of this short-sighted shit I tell you, none of it. ;P Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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I’ve seen this a lot in anti Microsoft sites (like Slashdot) or generally not-so-friendly MS sites (like ZDNet), whenever anything related to Microsoft is mentioned, the letter 'S' being transformed magically into a yummy dollar sign ('$'), such as Micro$oft, M$, M$FT, Window$ … I can understand why an anti-Microsoftie like a Linux zealot would use this sign. Something like the following probably go in their minds about Microsoft when they use the sign.. “A monopoli$t company that $uck$ poor($) Window$ users' hard earned money ($) and makes its founder the richest($) person of the world and thus in turn making us, the Linux developers even poorer($), by forcing us to give away our fine software for free($)….” Now that’s understood, but I wonder why loyal Windows developers in a Microsoft friendly site like this need to decorate the ‘S’ letter (see the comments in this article for proof). Does this mean that we’re not as loyal as Microsoft expects us to be, or has it become a fashion to use this decoration to attract others’ attention? Hmm.. How about a genuine reason that can go something like this.. “Micro$oft is fine company that believe$ in innovation and free market economy ($).. a company that helps us keep surviving ($) and even help some of us make big bucks ($) by providing licen$e to develop on a fine operating system we all know as Window$” Hmm, any other thought? // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
I hate this f....d eternal MS-Linux discussions! Go make your money; whatever you use! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Logical, well constructed arguements. Stayed on topic. No mention of goats, latex or guns. Have you been hacked again John? Or are you taking your medication? :-D Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone