The Passion of the Christ
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Stan Shannon wrote: Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? I think thats an understatement.... From different reports on the television (bias .. really?) I have seen this: 1 Jews protesting it in concentration camp uniforms claiming this movie promotes this and will "bring it back" From the Bible Jesus was sentenced to death by Jewish priest "Then the chief priest and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. "But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."" Matthew 26:3-5 (NIV) 2 The Black Panthers (I believe thats the group) proclaiming that this movie is interpeted as literal fact and trying to say that Jesus was black... oh come on he was born in lower Eastern Europe area, also the skin color is really pretty irelivent as indicated by the teachings and influence he had over people. If anything I am led to believe that this group is racist based on their statement. 3. Vegiterian fundimentalist trying to useleach of the movie's popularity/message and trying to proclaim that Jesus would have promoted vegaterian only and angainst animal "cruelity" (where animals are used as food).. ugh ... lets see.. feeding of the 5000 (fish and bread), old testament animal scrafice... etc I think that this movie is something that should be looked at by every single American (at least) as something to humble themselves with. The majority of the movies produced today are "surval of the fittest" (run over/kill as many people as possible in order to be "successfull" [i.e. money, fame, sex]) satires at political adgendas, and just idleness [in biblical terms] as seen with Eurotrip (ugh i have not and will not see the movie). Also from this movie I hope it has influence of the media and culture [don't get me started on that or it will be an exponentially larger post]. -Steven Hicks
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You have convinced me that the world really has been invaded by idiots ( the people you're talking about, not you ). (Steven Hicks)n+1 wrote: If anything I am led to believe that this group is racist based on their statement. It's simple - people in minorities who are vocal about their 'rights' are usually racist themselves, and keen to use the racist accusation whenever they are forced to live by the same rules as everyone else Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Stan Shannon wrote: In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". Seriously ? I've read KKK propaganda along those lines. Stan Shannon wrote: In fact, every good Christian I now understands that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race, thus we are all equally responsible. Quite obviously, Jesus died because He chose to, no-one hog tied Him and forced Him into it. I don't think anyone seriously thinks otherwise unless their stating point is anti-Semitic. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: Seriously ? I've read KKK propaganda along those lines. Could be, I don't keep up much with the Klan's propaganda, but I understand they are much more "nazi" like than they used to be. However, I was raised by deeply religious, and very backwoods, southerners and all I was ever taught about Jews is that they were "God's choosen people" (in the old testament sense) and were to be respected. I don't think that was an uncommon opinion. I can still hear my mom warning me that God would punish a 1000 fold anyone who harmed a Jew. Which was an odd warning considering there were probably no Jews within fifty miles of where we lived. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Stan Shannon wrote: Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? I think thats an understatement.... From different reports on the television (bias .. really?) I have seen this: 1 Jews protesting it in concentration camp uniforms claiming this movie promotes this and will "bring it back" From the Bible Jesus was sentenced to death by Jewish priest "Then the chief priest and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. "But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."" Matthew 26:3-5 (NIV) 2 The Black Panthers (I believe thats the group) proclaiming that this movie is interpeted as literal fact and trying to say that Jesus was black... oh come on he was born in lower Eastern Europe area, also the skin color is really pretty irelivent as indicated by the teachings and influence he had over people. If anything I am led to believe that this group is racist based on their statement. 3. Vegiterian fundimentalist trying to useleach of the movie's popularity/message and trying to proclaim that Jesus would have promoted vegaterian only and angainst animal "cruelity" (where animals are used as food).. ugh ... lets see.. feeding of the 5000 (fish and bread), old testament animal scrafice... etc I think that this movie is something that should be looked at by every single American (at least) as something to humble themselves with. The majority of the movies produced today are "surval of the fittest" (run over/kill as many people as possible in order to be "successfull" [i.e. money, fame, sex]) satires at political adgendas, and just idleness [in biblical terms] as seen with Eurotrip (ugh i have not and will not see the movie). Also from this movie I hope it has influence of the media and culture [don't get me started on that or it will be an exponentially larger post]. -Steven Hicks
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(Steven Hicks)n+1 wrote: oh come on he was born in lower Eastern Europe area wait... Bethlehem, Israel is "lower Eastern Europe" ? Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
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Saw it last night. Absolutely stunning. Mel Gibson should be applauded for the risks he took and thanked for the results. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
Well I was going to go see it today but it's sold out at both of the local theaters. :( Maybe next weekend. Jeremy Falcon
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Jesus Lives! :-D I see they are crucifing you already, so here is a 5.:rolleyes: Later, JoeSox "Making the world safe for hypocrisy." - Thomas Wolfe joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
I'm an atheist, and I gave him a five. I just don't understand some of these down-voters. Jeremy Falcon
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You have convinced me that the world really has been invaded by idiots ( the people you're talking about, not you ). (Steven Hicks)n+1 wrote: If anything I am led to believe that this group is racist based on their statement. It's simple - people in minorities who are vocal about their 'rights' are usually racist themselves, and keen to use the racist accusation whenever they are forced to live by the same rules as everyone else Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Not everyone is but there are a lot out there.... Christian Graus wrote: It's simple - people in minorities who are vocal about their 'rights' are usually racist themselves, and keen to use the racist accusation whenever they are forced to live by the same rules as everyone else But what is there rigtht to make false accusations that are completely unfounded to spread idiotcy. -Steven Hicks
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Saw it last night. Absolutely stunning. Mel Gibson should be applauded for the risks he took and thanked for the results. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
I haven't seen the movie yet, I've only read the book. Please don't ruin it for me!!!! :)
Who am I? Currently: A Programming Student trying to survive school with plan to go on to Univeristy of Advancing Technology to study game design. Main career interest include: Multimedia and game programming. Working on an outside project: A game for the GamePark32 (GP32) portable gaming console. My website: www.GP32US.com
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(Steven Hicks)n+1 wrote: oh come on he was born in lower Eastern Europe area wait... Bethlehem, Israel is "lower Eastern Europe" ? Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
Chris Losinger wrote: wait... Bethlehem, Israel is "lower Eastern Europe" ? Apparently. People want Jesus to be an aryan with short hair and a business suit rather than an itenerant jew who befriended prostitutes.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
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I haven't seen the movie yet, I've only read the book. Please don't ruin it for me!!!! :)
Who am I? Currently: A Programming Student trying to survive school with plan to go on to Univeristy of Advancing Technology to study game design. Main career interest include: Multimedia and game programming. Working on an outside project: A game for the GamePark32 (GP32) portable gaming console. My website: www.GP32US.com
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Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". I've encountered a lot based on the notion that the "Jews own all the banks" or other such nonsense, but nothing that related back to the bible. In fact, every good Christian I now understands that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race, thus we are all equally responsible. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". This is perhaps more a specificity of catholicism. In the past, and for centuries, jews were displayed as the killers of Christ, and catholicism promoted a kind of antisemitism through its education. They were also accused of negating the concept Christ was the Messiah, a crime in these times of extremism. For example, many jews were persecuted during the crusades because of these religious beliefs. I think all these references were removed after the council "Vatican II", in the 60's.
And I'm talking to myself at night because I can't forget Back and forth through my mind Behind a cigarette
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Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". I've encountered a lot based on the notion that the "Jews own all the banks" or other such nonsense, but nothing that related back to the bible. In fact, every good Christian I now understands that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race, thus we are all equally responsible. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". I've encountered a lot based on the notion that the "Jews own all the banks" or other such nonsense, but nothing that related back to the bible. In fact, every good Christian I now understands that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race, thus we are all equally responsible. Your experience of "good Christians" is obviously limited. Many Christians think exactly as you describe, but over the course of the past 2000 years, very different views have been held --- so much so that the Pope apologised a few years back for the role that the Catholic church had played in the persecution of Jews. http://www.detnews.com/2000/religion/0003/13/A12-15167.htm[^] Most Jewish commentators considered that the apology was inadequate, considering the level of culpability involved. Some links below may be of interest (I can't vouch for the accuracy of all of the information, but if you do a Google search, then I believe that you will find enough smoke to convince you of the existence of a fire). http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers1.htm[^] http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers3.htm[^] It is of some interest to note that, contrary to widespread belief, Jews and Arabs have not been warring with each other for 2000 years. That is a 20th (and now 21st) century phenomenon. Historically, the main antagonists of the Jews have been Christians, not Muslims. For example, when Spain was Muslim-dominated, the Jews were pretty much left alone and prospered. When Christianity took over, the Spanish Inquisition was created, which made a particular target of Jews. When Britain was in the process of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine in the aftermath of WWI, the British Shaw Commission into the 1929 violence commented as follows: In less than 10 years three serious attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews
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Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". I've encountered a lot based on the notion that the "Jews own all the banks" or other such nonsense, but nothing that related back to the bible. In fact, every good Christian I now understands that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race, thus we are all equally responsible. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
I always find the "Jews killed Christ" , "lets hate Jews arguement" illogical since Jesus was a Jew, If the Jewish community promoted "Jesus was a Jew" arguement a bit more that idiot arguement would evaporate. Regardz Colin J Davies
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(Steven Hicks)n+1 wrote: oh come on he was born in lower Eastern Europe area wait... Bethlehem, Israel is "lower Eastern Europe" ? Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
Jews of the time were not Europeanized like they are today. After the diaspora, they were scattered and pretty much lost their heritage and their lineage. Jews today are just about any color. Back then they would have been darker skinned like Arabs, but not black.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
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Saw it last night. Absolutely stunning. Mel Gibson should be applauded for the risks he took and thanked for the results. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
My wife was bawling through the whole thing. I cried when Mary ran up to him while carrying the cross and he said that he made all things new. It certainly moved me, but I'm a Christian. I just hope it moves those who need it most.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
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Jews of the time were not Europeanized like they are today. After the diaspora, they were scattered and pretty much lost their heritage and their lineage. Jews today are just about any color. Back then they would have been darker skinned like Arabs, but not black.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blogerr yeah. still not "Lower Eastern European". Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
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err yeah. still not "Lower Eastern European". Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
i agree with you. technically, Europe starts in Istanbul, not Palestine. so it's southwestern Asia.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blog -
My wife was bawling through the whole thing. I cried when Mary ran up to him while carrying the cross and he said that he made all things new. It certainly moved me, but I'm a Christian. I just hope it moves those who need it most.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: I just hope it moves those who need it most. but in which direction ? I plan seeing this tomorrow evening.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
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Jason Henderson wrote: I just hope it moves those who need it most. but in which direction ? I plan seeing this tomorrow evening.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
Toward Christ of course.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blog -
Saw it last night. Absolutely stunning. Mel Gibson should be applauded for the risks he took and thanked for the results. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
Mike Gaskey wrote: Saw it last night. Absolutely stunning. Mel Gibson should be applauded for the risks he took and thanked for the results. You right wingers may be interested in the opinion of a fellow right winger, William Safire: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/opinion/01SAFI.html?hp[^] John Carson "I wish to propose for the reader's favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true." - Bertrand Russell
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Stan Shannon wrote: Isn't the paranoia surrounding this movie incredible? In my entire life I have never encountered anti-semitism based on the notion that the "Jews killed Christ". I've encountered a lot based on the notion that the "Jews own all the banks" or other such nonsense, but nothing that related back to the bible. In fact, every good Christian I now understands that Christ died for the sins of the entire human race, thus we are all equally responsible. Your experience of "good Christians" is obviously limited. Many Christians think exactly as you describe, but over the course of the past 2000 years, very different views have been held --- so much so that the Pope apologised a few years back for the role that the Catholic church had played in the persecution of Jews. http://www.detnews.com/2000/religion/0003/13/A12-15167.htm[^] Most Jewish commentators considered that the apology was inadequate, considering the level of culpability involved. Some links below may be of interest (I can't vouch for the accuracy of all of the information, but if you do a Google search, then I believe that you will find enough smoke to convince you of the existence of a fire). http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers1.htm[^] http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers3.htm[^] It is of some interest to note that, contrary to widespread belief, Jews and Arabs have not been warring with each other for 2000 years. That is a 20th (and now 21st) century phenomenon. Historically, the main antagonists of the Jews have been Christians, not Muslims. For example, when Spain was Muslim-dominated, the Jews were pretty much left alone and prospered. When Christianity took over, the Spanish Inquisition was created, which made a particular target of Jews. When Britain was in the process of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine in the aftermath of WWI, the British Shaw Commission into the 1929 violence commented as follows: In less than 10 years three serious attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews
Excellent references, John. Although very little class time was spent in my youth on the problems of the Middle East, it's always been my impression that the Arab/Jew conflict is a recent thing. I conclude from the timing that it started as a response to European meddling in the region, culminating in the creation of the state of Israel. I doubt that the rest of the world, in the deliberations over a solution to the problem of a homeland for Jews, ever considered the intensity or duration of the backlash from those displaced by their actions. I've never understood the persecution of Jews, other than as a scapegoat for the ills of a society run by despots. As a group - in my experience only - they are invariably hard-working, intelligent, and well educated. As a result they tend to rise to professional positions within society, much to the ire of those who have little. That makes them easy targets, but a society that fails to recognize and appreciate such valuable contributors is doomed. Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true...
