Future of .NET
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
I think you're going a bit too far. Unmanaged code will still be around in the same way that C is still around it's just that unmanged code will have more difficulty accessing the latest and greatest technology. Think of it this way. In games everything used to be written in C and assembler. Then C got fast enough so everything could be written in C and C++, even though people complained at the time that the object orientated model was going to slow things down too much. Now people write games purely in C++. From a windows point of view you can still write windows programs in C as long as you understand message loops and the real basics of how windows works. The only problem with this is that something as simple as a toolbar suddenly becomes a major task and you'd be far more sensible to write it in C++ using MFC. I personally wouldn't know where to start when it comes to writing device drivers but even though I will occaisional moan about C# I can honestly say that I cannot think of a single program that I couldn't write with it. Though no doubt someone else will :-D pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
that's very interesting, and in a certain point of view, it doesn't astonish me. Microsoft's policy is a bit awful. "the world is ours". :( Even if unmanaged code is not going to desapear (as someone said), it is one more time a put hand on the PC World. here is how i see Mr Gates and its workmen...
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
Corinna John wrote: time critical applications? There won't be much point in writing unmanaged apps, if the unmanaged apps then proxy through a managed API base. So for time critical apps, they might either provide us a lower-level unmanaged API or we can hope that the managed API is fast enough on an Itanium :-) Corinna John wrote: device drivers? The DDK would probably be an unmanaged API :-) I mean whoever heard of a garbage collected device driver? :rolleyes: Corinna John wrote: any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? If you are running their OS, it stands to reason that they can tell you what to code in, right? If you can't stand following their programming methodologies, there are other cheaper OS alternatives out there. BTW by "you" I am talking in the general term, rather than mean "you" as in "you - Corrina - Woman of Steganography" ;-) Nish
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
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that's very interesting, and in a certain point of view, it doesn't astonish me. Microsoft's policy is a bit awful. "the world is ours". :( Even if unmanaged code is not going to desapear (as someone said), it is one more time a put hand on the PC World. here is how i see Mr Gates and its workmen...
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
Microsoft is not completely wrong with this policy, the world of desktop computers nearly belongs to them. But I think they feel too save. Many users might change to a good Linux distribution, when they become aware of the fact that their machines get restricted instead of enhanced by new versions. BTW: I've ordered SuSE Linux 9.1, and it arrived just on monday. Now I'm waiting for the weekend to install it and see where the world of computers may be going if microsoft goes on like that ;)
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Corinna John wrote: time critical applications? There won't be much point in writing unmanaged apps, if the unmanaged apps then proxy through a managed API base. So for time critical apps, they might either provide us a lower-level unmanaged API or we can hope that the managed API is fast enough on an Itanium :-) Corinna John wrote: device drivers? The DDK would probably be an unmanaged API :-) I mean whoever heard of a garbage collected device driver? :rolleyes: Corinna John wrote: any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? If you are running their OS, it stands to reason that they can tell you what to code in, right? If you can't stand following their programming methodologies, there are other cheaper OS alternatives out there. BTW by "you" I am talking in the general term, rather than mean "you" as in "you - Corrina - Woman of Steganography" ;-) Nish
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
Nishant S wrote: the unmanaged apps then proxy through a managed API base. Yeah, that's the future of Windows! The whole API is a set of proxy-functions calling the managed API. That means the real OS is a VM, and Windows itself is a managed application. Unmanaged, non-microsoftish apps are definitely impossible! I can imagine how they'll sell that to us: Windows protects you from evil code. Every virus will be tracked and it's actions sent to the microsoft security department. :) Nishant S wrote: garbage collected device driver Once a bug in the VM has killed the device, the garbage collecting device driver collects the hardware... Nishant S wrote: there are other cheaper OS alternatives out there Yes, there are many free OS alternatives. And if I don't like something about them, I can try to change and re-compile them. (Two days left util weekend and SuSE 9.1...) But there must be a reason why the majority of all desktop users stick to windows... :rolleyes: Nishant S wrote: Corrina - Woman of Steganography Niss - The CP Editor who had to dig through my strange managed apps :rose:
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Nishant S wrote: the unmanaged apps then proxy through a managed API base. Yeah, that's the future of Windows! The whole API is a set of proxy-functions calling the managed API. That means the real OS is a VM, and Windows itself is a managed application. Unmanaged, non-microsoftish apps are definitely impossible! I can imagine how they'll sell that to us: Windows protects you from evil code. Every virus will be tracked and it's actions sent to the microsoft security department. :) Nishant S wrote: garbage collected device driver Once a bug in the VM has killed the device, the garbage collecting device driver collects the hardware... Nishant S wrote: there are other cheaper OS alternatives out there Yes, there are many free OS alternatives. And if I don't like something about them, I can try to change and re-compile them. (Two days left util weekend and SuSE 9.1...) But there must be a reason why the majority of all desktop users stick to windows... :rolleyes: Nishant S wrote: Corrina - Woman of Steganography Niss - The CP Editor who had to dig through my strange managed apps :rose:
Corinna John wrote: Niss - The CP Editor who had to dig through my strange managed apps I wish you'd spelt my name right :( Nish :sigh:
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
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Corinna John wrote: Niss - The CP Editor who had to dig through my strange managed apps I wish you'd spelt my name right :( Nish :sigh:
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
As long as you spell me Corrina, I claim the right to spell you Niss. :suss: Give me my "n" and you can have your "h" back!
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As long as you spell me Corrina, I claim the right to spell you Niss. :suss: Give me my "n" and you can have your "h" back!
Corinna John wrote: As long as you spell me Corrina, I claim the right to spell you Niss Oops! :-O Corinna John wrote: Give me my "n" and you can have your "h" back! Okay - hello Corinna :-) Nish :-D
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
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Corinna John wrote: As long as you spell me Corrina, I claim the right to spell you Niss Oops! :-O Corinna John wrote: Give me my "n" and you can have your "h" back! Okay - hello Corinna :-) Nish :-D
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
Thanks, Nish! :)
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Corinna John wrote: time critical applications? There won't be much point in writing unmanaged apps, if the unmanaged apps then proxy through a managed API base. So for time critical apps, they might either provide us a lower-level unmanaged API or we can hope that the managed API is fast enough on an Itanium :-) Corinna John wrote: device drivers? The DDK would probably be an unmanaged API :-) I mean whoever heard of a garbage collected device driver? :rolleyes: Corinna John wrote: any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? If you are running their OS, it stands to reason that they can tell you what to code in, right? If you can't stand following their programming methodologies, there are other cheaper OS alternatives out there. BTW by "you" I am talking in the general term, rather than mean "you" as in "you - Corrina - Woman of Steganography" ;-) Nish
Now with my own blog - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
Corrina - Woman of Steganography That's a pretty cool superhero nickname! Does a cape come with that? Astride her mighty stegosaurus BMP, Corinna yelled, "Unhand those bits, scoundrel!" Corinna, your articles are all great. Regards, Jeff Varszegi EEEP!
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
Corinna John wrote: time critical applications? On Windows? :laugh: Seriously, though I am guessing that for things such as drivers, time-critical code, etc., there will end up being unmanaged code that is wrapped by managed code. So only the "necessary" pieces will end up being unmanaged. Device drivers really worry me, though. Microsoft may come out with a completely new way of writing drivers, using managed code. If that is the case, it means those of us who still support "old" OSes (such as XP) will yet again have to maintain two code bases for drivers. Just like now, where 9X drivers are 16-bit and must be compiled with an old version of Visual Studio. Hopefully 9X will be dead before Longhorn comes out, so at least we won't have to maintain *three* driver codebases... X| Sometimes I feel like I'm a USB printer in a parallel universe.
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
screw them. i've managed to skip the OLE, COM, COM+ and DCOM "revolutions". i think i'll skip the managed code one, too. unless the next version of Windows refuses to run native code written in C++/MFC, i'll still be writing it. Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
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screw them. i've managed to skip the OLE, COM, COM+ and DCOM "revolutions". i think i'll skip the managed code one, too. unless the next version of Windows refuses to run native code written in C++/MFC, i'll still be writing it. Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
Nothing like the good old-fashioned 16 bit apps! Who needs that 32 bit fad anyway? ;P
If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution - Robert Sewell
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
While many gripe at using a proprietry technology, or slow JIT'ing and garbage collection, there's only really two choices here: Make the average developer better at managing security and resource use, or assume developers will always be developers and delegate that work to the underlying framework. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Nothing like the good old-fashioned 16 bit apps! Who needs that 32 bit fad anyway? ;P
If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution - Robert Sewell
Even 16 bits are too much sometimes.. ;P -- Booohoo!
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While many gripe at using a proprietry technology, or slow JIT'ing and garbage collection, there's only really two choices here: Make the average developer better at managing security and resource use, or assume developers will always be developers and delegate that work to the underlying framework. cheers, Chris Maunder
Assuming .NET will not contain any major security leaks.. :rolleyes: -- Booohoo!
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Nothing like the good old-fashioned 16 bit apps! Who needs that 32 bit fad anyway? ;P
If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution - Robert Sewell
16-bit to 32-bit was a definite improvement. native code to managed code? not so much improvement. Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
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screw them. i've managed to skip the OLE, COM, COM+ and DCOM "revolutions". i think i'll skip the managed code one, too. unless the next version of Windows refuses to run native code written in C++/MFC, i'll still be writing it. Cleek | Losinger Designs | ClickPic | ThumbNailer
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John Montgomery, Microsoft, in an interview about the future of .NET: There will be a Longhorn client and server edition. Blackcomb is our vision of a Windows after Longhorn, still very far away at the horizon. Blackcomb is not on our agenda yet. Before it, there will be Whidbey and Longhorn. Today Lonhorn is only an example for developers. We want to show the developers that they should use managed code. Before the release of Longhorn they should have a look at Whidbey. Programmers who don't change to managed code now will hardly be able to follow the progress of technology. I found that quote on http://www.heise.de/ix/artikel/2004/05/086/[^] and tried to translate it to English as good as possible. Can it be true? Microsoft plans to force developers to use managed code, MFC and the Win32 API are going to die. But how about... - time critical applications? - device drivers? - any programs that do not perfectly fit into Microsoft's ideas about what they should do? "We want to show the developers that they should use managed code" says more than just "managed code is cool, so use it". In near future Windows won't be only an operation system running programs, it is going to control what the programs do and what data they process. Writing unmanaged applications won't be supported anymore. Or did I get anything wrong...? Please tell me what I didn't understand...
I traded emails with Eric Gunnerson (Visual C# Program Manager, http://weblogs.asp.net/ericgu/archive/2003/06/20/52326.aspx) a few months ago about this same topic. I work in a lot of time-critical applications and was concerned about moving to C#. I did some initial development and decided that C# could not handle most of our real-time concerns and started emailing Eric for details on future plans. He basically told me the usual stuff, C# was very close to C++ in most instances (I/O seems to be a big slow point), P/Invoke would allow you to continue using C++ and older stuff from .NET, etc. However, he did say basically that WIN32 wasn't going away, it would still be there (though not encouraged) in Longhorn. That means that no matter what we've got till 2006 + 3 years of supported WIN32 and MFC (probably more). The new WINFX API will be entirely managed but it will run alongside the backwards compatible WIN32 API as follows (Visual Studio Magazine, February 2004, http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2004\_02/magazine/features/rjennings/): The Win32 API, reigning king of the desktop for a decade, is dead; long live WinFX, Win32's successor. WinFX is a new .NET-based API that provides managed access to the three Longhorn pillars—Avalon, WinFS, and Indigo—and all other new Longhorn functionality. Secure managed code is in; native code and buffer overruns are out. The move from Win32 to WinFX is undoubtedly the largest software refactoring project ever attempted. Win32 will remain, of course, for backward compatibility, but WinFX is where the action will be. If you aren't using managed code for all new Web and Windows apps, it's time to refactor your development strategy. Win32 will go into maintenance mode in the Longhorn timeframe. Anyway, so long story short. I have spoken with a good number of people that work in time-critical areas, and the consensus for now is to keep time-critical apps in C++/MFC/etc. while any other new development can be done in .NET. Hope this helps. Brian "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams