What do you want in the next version of VS/C#
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What's so wrong about wanting a debugger that supports edit and continue? Personally, I think that's more important than collapsing text. Jeremy Falcon
Hmmm...well I work with business objects and they are broken down into 5 or 6 defined regions where similar code is grouped, I constantly (currently: all day hundreds of times a day) need to open up those regions to make modifications, when I'm at the bottom of a region that is 500+ lines of code long, it would be nice to simply collapse that region from the bottom, but I have to scroll up and find the top of it then collapse it so I can find the other regions I need to work on.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
Heath Stewart wrote: At least half of those are either not possible (like the stupid "throws" clause Java devs keeps bringing up that isn't even supported by the CLI) With a database of common exceptions (the same that is used to build MSDN docs) and a bit of flow graph analysis, an IDE can warn about a lot of things. I understand, not all (e.g, virtual calls). Yes, even I am blogging now!
Sure, one might think you could make this an IDE feature. Think about it, though: C# is a standard proposed to and registered with the ECMA. Even adding "throws" as an IDE enhancement (and remember VS.NET isn't the only IDE) requires that the language be changed for something that is not supported by the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI). The CLI defines no such support. So, taking all that into account, adding a "throws" keyword is not possible unless both the C# language specification and the CLI are changed. This isn't likely to happened, and has been said as much in several Microsoftie blogs.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
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Number 1 was support for edit and continue? Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? If we're talking about debuggers, then me. Jeremy Falcon
Why exactly? On an regular basis or..? I just could never see the appeal, I don't want to mess with a running program and hope that the change I made partway through doesn't just cause other bugs that I didn't anticipate becuase I'm changing some code that some other code is dependant on. I think it's a dangerous feature. Stop the debug, change the code the recompile and re-run it is much cleaner and clearer. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#?
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
Hah! I wish! Try it, it only collapses the method you are currently in, not the whole region itself. Besides which, even if it worked, I'm a mouse man, I hate using the keyboard any more than I have to, I want a little box to click on the collapse the region above.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceA programmer that prefers the mouse? I thought that was impossible! :omg: Jeremy Falcon
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Hah! I wish! Try it, it only collapses the method you are currently in, not the whole region itself. Besides which, even if it worked, I'm a mouse man, I hate using the keyboard any more than I have to, I want a little box to click on the collapse the region above.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceJohn Cardinal wrote: Try it, it only collapses the method you are currently in, not the whole region itself. I'm on the line containing the #endregion, which, by definition, is where the region ends: pressing Ctrl-M two times, the whole region is collapsed. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Why exactly? On an regular basis or..? I just could never see the appeal, I don't want to mess with a running program and hope that the change I made partway through doesn't just cause other bugs that I didn't anticipate becuase I'm changing some code that some other code is dependant on. I think it's a dangerous feature. Stop the debug, change the code the recompile and re-run it is much cleaner and clearer. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#?
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceWhy exactly? On an regular basis or..? Because I use it a lot. :) It's a time saver for me. And, I don't see how it's more dangerous to change a value via edit and continue than changing a value and recompiling. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#? I dunno. I'm a newbie to C# (reading Tom Archer's book), so there may be something not apparent to me yet that I'll want down the road. However, I've been using C/C++ and VB for a long time and I've grown to like edit and continue. Jeremy Falcon
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Check out the results for a recent survey made by Cyrus Najmabadi (Microsoftian) : Results of the votes for new C# features[^]
Promise only what you can do. And then deliver more than what you promised.
This signature was created by "Code Project Quoter".Wow. Aspects was at the bottom of the list. :sigh: Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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Sure, one might think you could make this an IDE feature. Think about it, though: C# is a standard proposed to and registered with the ECMA. Even adding "throws" as an IDE enhancement (and remember VS.NET isn't the only IDE) requires that the language be changed for something that is not supported by the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI). The CLI defines no such support. So, taking all that into account, adding a "throws" keyword is not possible unless both the C# language specification and the CLI are changed. This isn't likely to happened, and has been said as much in several Microsoftie blogs.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
Heath Stewart wrote: Sure, one might think you could make this an IDE feature. Think about it, though: C# is a standard proposed to and registered with the ECMA. Even adding "throws" as an IDE enhancement (and remember VS.NET isn't the only IDE) requires that the language be changed for something that is not supported by the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI). The CLI defines no such support. But where are you seeing this among the voted features? :confused: Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Wow. Aspects was at the bottom of the list. :sigh: Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Wow. Aspects was at the bottom of the list. Besides logging and asserting, what useful can you do with AOP? BTW, you can do most of these things dynamically by implementing a Decorator pattern. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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VI mode :eek: Some people are just sick!
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way! My Blog
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Heath Stewart wrote: Sure, one might think you could make this an IDE feature. Think about it, though: C# is a standard proposed to and registered with the ECMA. Even adding "throws" as an IDE enhancement (and remember VS.NET isn't the only IDE) requires that the language be changed for something that is not supported by the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI). The CLI defines no such support. But where are you seeing this among the voted features? :confused: Yes, even I am blogging now!
It's actually in the comments, but it has come up many, many times and addressed almost as many times. But there are many other examples. Some questions - like support for checking enum values - is already supported (using the
Enumtype). All I'm saying is that many of those requests (not all, but many) are posed by people that clearly don't understand C# and the .NET Framework (whatever aspect of it). Heck, from my experience most programmers don't even understand the whole C#/VB.NET/etc. -> compiler -> IL -> JIT compiler -> native code concept yet. :rolleyes: Some other things on there would be nice, but at what cost? Sure, actually returning anICodePraserfromCodeDomProvider.CreateParser()for C# and VB.NET (they currently return null, or at least the C# provider does) would be nice (and would facilitate syntax highlighting using compiler features), but I'd rather have a stable BCL and good, solid language (with only reasonable changes) than a bunch of features that third parties can provide. I think a lot of requests just come down to the fact that people are getting too lazy (just look at the enhancements to IntelliSense for proof).Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
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Check out the results for a recent survey made by Cyrus Najmabadi (Microsoftian) : Results of the votes for new C# features[^]
Promise only what you can do. And then deliver more than what you promised.
This signature was created by "Code Project Quoter".I want it to think for me, but not let the boss man know. SO I can laze around doing other stuss while it writes my code. :-D And may I say. CODEPROJECT IS SLOOOOOOOOOOOW.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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John Cardinal wrote: Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Go to the bottom of the region? Are you there? Press Ctrl-M; Press it again. You have two other wishes. :-D Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Did some penguins spam the survey to prevent C# from evolving the way we want it ? :suss: "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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Ok. Maybe I'm getting a little paranoid. I'll blame my manager who keeps sneaking up on me to check if I'm working. The guy has made me a nervous wreck :) "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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Why exactly? On an regular basis or..? I just could never see the appeal, I don't want to mess with a running program and hope that the change I made partway through doesn't just cause other bugs that I didn't anticipate becuase I'm changing some code that some other code is dependant on. I think it's a dangerous feature. Stop the debug, change the code the recompile and re-run it is much cleaner and clearer. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#?
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceI too use this function all of the time. My company's products weigh in at about 30Mb compiled [simulations of aircraft hardware and systems] and fixing a one line bug that took me 15 minutes to get to is fine, just as long as I don't have to quit, edit, recompile, rerun... if it works after a "patch" then I'm happy. We still test things formally, but in VC6 it rarely lets me down!! Regards, Ray
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Number 1 was support for edit and continue? Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Just for starters. What a wierd survey, I suspect that people got together and jammed the ballot box so to speak because I can't imagine that being a top priority for the averge c# programmer.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceJohn Cardinal wrote: Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Me. Not that I'd make it a top priority, or anything. I'd probably talk about language features, rather than IDE features. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Why exactly? On an regular basis or..? Because I use it a lot. :) It's a time saver for me. And, I don't see how it's more dangerous to change a value via edit and continue than changing a value and recompiling. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#? I dunno. I'm a newbie to C# (reading Tom Archer's book), so there may be something not apparent to me yet that I'll want down the road. However, I've been using C/C++ and VB for a long time and I've grown to like edit and continue. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I dunno. I'm a newbie to C# (reading Tom Archer's book), so there may be something not apparent to me yet that I'll want down the road. Bloody hell! Consider yourself smacked! Why do you respond to something like this when you don't even work in it? :wtf:
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
John Cardinal wrote: Try it, it only collapses the method you are currently in, not the whole region itself. I'm on the line containing the #endregion, which, by definition, is where the region ends: pressing Ctrl-M two times, the whole region is collapsed. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Wow. Aspects was at the bottom of the list. :sigh: Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net