Grammar 101
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But at least y'all can be a contraction. Where the heck did "youse" come from? BTW I never could stand y'all when I lived in the south and can NOT stand youse now that I'm in New Jersey...
Brad Bruce wrote: Where the heck did "youse" come from? I was always of the impression that in Scots it was the plural form of you. However, I wasn't aware of its use outside of Scotland. (I just googled for it and found it used across the US)
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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But at least y'all can be a contraction. Where the heck did "youse" come from? BTW I never could stand y'all when I lived in the south and can NOT stand youse now that I'm in New Jersey...
Ever listen to Jeff Foxworthy Some of this contractions are priceless.... "initiate" and "aorta" come to mind for "and then she ate" and "I ought to" "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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When I was in my 20s can/may were interchangeable. Now that I'm 40 I see the difference. I wonder if this has to do with the maturing of the brain? It's easier to pick up new languages and accents when you are younger. As you get older it becomes more difficult. I struggled through college German (at 28 years of age) watching 18 year olds not do homework and fly through the course. It's good to live, Josef Wainz Software Developer
Turtle Hand wrote: I wonder if this has to do with the maturing of the brain? Probably, you get smarter as you get older, but more set in your ways. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Who you are in Christ
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Actually it seems to be an Indian thing*. Smitha and Nish both do it in the programming forums here on CP and are quite adamant they are using it correctly. I however am doubtful about that. * That annoys me. When I can't think of the correct word and have to use stuff or thing. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Ok, this post is more clear to me now. doubt in .Net
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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How about when someone is expressing their complete dislike about something by saying "I could care less...?" To me, that indicates they still have a small amount of "like" left. If they totally disliked something, it should be "I couldn't care less..."
"When I was born I was so surprised that I didn't talk for a year and a half." - Gracie Allen
The phrase "I could care less" implies the tag "but I don't." I suspect this is a regional thing. I grew up with "I could care less" but deliberately started using "I couldn't care less" in my twenties so there was no ambiguity. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Another one (yes, you've hit one of my pet subjects - you'll regret it soon ;P ) Split infinitives. Actually, I didn't used to pick up on it until I was rereading something that I wrote a few weeks ago and it just didn't sound right. When I reordered the words I realised that I had corrected a split infinitive.
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
The notion that split infinitives violate English grammar stems from the theory that English should follow the same rules as Latin, which doesn't allow them simply because it's impossible. English, however, does not follow the same rules as Latin and this rule is just as silly as other artificial constructions of language proscriptivists. (The Chicago Manual of Style accepts split infinitives as being useful on occasion and even observes that technically, all infinitives are split in English--by a space. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.SplitInfinitives.html[^]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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What two words do you find used incorrectly the most? Two that come to mind immediately for me are these: Noxious: "I feel noxious." This is incorrect, because fumes are noxious and make a person feel nauseated. Irregardless: "Irregardless of what you may think, this sentence is incorrect." Regardless is already negative and does not need the prefix “ir” to make it more negative. "Regardless of what you may think, this sentence is correct." --- I bought a Dell XPS gaming system, started a fan site, and never looked back.
Some favorite peeves are: There, they're, and their; They're over there, with their kids. Effect and affect; You can effect a change, or be affected by it. You can also affect a situation, which allows you to have an effect on it. Some people may affect an attitude about it, but often it will be to no effect. Two, to, and too. I can add two to two, too! "My kid was Inmate of the Month at Adobe Mountain Juvenile Corrections Center" - Bumper Sticker in Bullhead City
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Actually it seems to be an Indian thing*. Smitha and Nish both do it in the programming forums here on CP and are quite adamant they are using it correctly. I however am doubtful about that. * That annoys me. When I can't think of the correct word and have to use stuff or thing. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
If we're going to pick on the Indians, I had a fax from there recently which had a sentence like: "We hope these changes you are making will fructify". It took me ages to realise that "fructify" = "bear fruit". And I thought UK & US were divided by a common language... Iain.
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Number one for me : the word at as in, "where are you at ?" I hear this so often that it is very, very annoying. Number two : got with a contraction of have as in, "I've got three computers." The correct phrase is, "I have three computers." I hear those two words used incorrectly far more often than I hear them used correctly. Frequently by educated people too. :rolleyes: This reminds of another common mistake - incorrect use of adverbs such as, "he write bad," when it should be badly. __________________________________________ a two cent stamp short of going postal.
Generally, if the contraction is used with the subject + have construction, as in "I've", the "got" is grammatically correct. (What isn't correct is to drop the got and retain the contraction as in "I've three computers.") "Where are you at?" is also grammatically correct, even if redundant. (Ending a sentence in a preposition is a fairly recent made up rule from grammarians who believed English should follow the same grammatical rules as Latin. At times, this rule creates very awkward sentences, which Churchill illustrated famously with "This is the kind of impertinence up with which I shall not put." A pretty good discussion is here: http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/022703.htm[^]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Paul, Paul, Paul... "Your right," I know you know, does not mean "you are right." Therefore in context, "your right" is not actually fine! ;P As for "your correct," this begs the question, "your correct... what?" :sigh: Adios, Jon
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I find too many people use this word in place of "figuratively." It's the opposite! I saw a television commercial from a communications company in which the announcer stated that with their product, "the world will literally be at your fingertips." --- "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -Wolfgang Pauli (1900 - 1958), on a paper submitted by a physicist colleague
This drives me literally nuts.:) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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What two words do you find used incorrectly the most? Two that come to mind immediately for me are these: Noxious: "I feel noxious." This is incorrect, because fumes are noxious and make a person feel nauseated. Irregardless: "Irregardless of what you may think, this sentence is incorrect." Regardless is already negative and does not need the prefix “ir” to make it more negative. "Regardless of what you may think, this sentence is correct." --- I bought a Dell XPS gaming system, started a fan site, and never looked back.
Believe it or not, I've actually heard this error perpetrated: "For all intensive purposes..." This drives me up the wall. It doesn't even make sense! The correct phrase is "For all intents and purposes" and should be used sparingly. If you've ever read (or had to read) Strunk and White's Elements of Style - a great book in which there is one chapter devoted to the correction of many such mistakes - you might also be familiar with this one: "The foreseeable future..." Strunk and White's comment on this phrase runs something like this: "How much of the future is forseeable? To whom? Under what circumstances? Never use this phrase." Sincerely, Alexander Wiseman Est melior esse quam videri It is better to be than to seem
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I think that half the stuff posted in the programming forums would count. Although, to be fair, most of these people don't speak English as their first language. But I do think that when people make statements rather than phrasing a questions it is inexcusable - I mean the first or second lesson anyone takes in any foreign language contains questions, even if they are basic ones like "How are you?" or "What is your name?" etc. (Curiously one of the first questions I learned in Spanish was "¿Puedes grabarme un CD, por favor?")
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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It is when you split the infinitive form of the verb. For example: "To go" is the infinitive form. If you insert a word between the "to" and the "go" you get a split infinitive. For those that can see where this is going (Hint: Think Star Trek) the most famouse split infinitive is "To boldly go where no man has gone before". In the "Broken Bow" episode of "Enterprise" the sentence was said by Zephram Cochran correctly: "To go boldly where no man has gone before."* * For the pedants among you, I realise this isn't actually a sentence - but I wasn't going to quote the whole thing.
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: the most famouse split infinitive is "To boldly go where no man has gone before". Thought you might like this[^] Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Who you are in Christ
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paulb wrote: This must be Scottish grammar No, that would be a typo. :-O
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: the most famouse split infinitive is "To boldly go where no man has gone before". Thought you might like this[^] Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Who you are in Christ
Quote from the link: Among dissenters is the London-based Queen's English Society. Joyce Morris, the society's patron, says English needs to be protected from "error and pollution." By that measure, she insists, the OUP has done violence to the language of Shakespeare. I think the Queen's English is quite different from Shakepearian English. Modern English is a lot more standardised than the English written in Shakespear's day. In fact, such was the lack of standards Shakespear himself is reported to have spelt his own name 30 different ways.
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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The notion that split infinitives violate English grammar stems from the theory that English should follow the same rules as Latin, which doesn't allow them simply because it's impossible. English, however, does not follow the same rules as Latin and this rule is just as silly as other artificial constructions of language proscriptivists. (The Chicago Manual of Style accepts split infinitives as being useful on occasion and even observes that technically, all infinitives are split in English--by a space. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.SplitInfinitives.html[^]) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
I would argue you over this. I am not a specialist by any meaning in this field, but I am a latin and I would say that this form of split infinitive has much meaning, for me at least.In Romanian (I`m not quite sure about other latin languages) the adverb can take place both before and after the verb (same goes for nouns and adjectives) and the difference in meaning is generally a change of nuance and pressing in some way on the importance of the adverb. So, "to boldly go where nobody..." emphasases "boldly" in a very meaningful way, whereas "to go boldly" is simply flat. Of course I`m not the one that has a call on this,I just wanted to express another point of view. ---------------------------- World could be better! Cornel Rebegea software developer Infodata SRL Bacau, Romania
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I would argue you over this. I am not a specialist by any meaning in this field, but I am a latin and I would say that this form of split infinitive has much meaning, for me at least.In Romanian (I`m not quite sure about other latin languages) the adverb can take place both before and after the verb (same goes for nouns and adjectives) and the difference in meaning is generally a change of nuance and pressing in some way on the importance of the adverb. So, "to boldly go where nobody..." emphasases "boldly" in a very meaningful way, whereas "to go boldly" is simply flat. Of course I`m not the one that has a call on this,I just wanted to express another point of view. ---------------------------- World could be better! Cornel Rebegea software developer Infodata SRL Bacau, Romania
I think you misunderstood. I was saying that pure Latin doesn't allow split infinitives (because infinitives are a single word) and that forcing this construct on other languages, let along English, is absurd. English isn't Latin (it's grammar is derived more from German.) I agree with you; splitting an infinitive can place a specific emphasis on something, which is what the Chicago Manual of Style also stated, though much better than I. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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What two words do you find used incorrectly the most? Two that come to mind immediately for me are these: Noxious: "I feel noxious." This is incorrect, because fumes are noxious and make a person feel nauseated. Irregardless: "Irregardless of what you may think, this sentence is incorrect." Regardless is already negative and does not need the prefix “ir” to make it more negative. "Regardless of what you may think, this sentence is correct." --- I bought a Dell XPS gaming system, started a fan site, and never looked back.
"Irregardless" comes from people trying to generalize from the word irrespective, which does have a valid use.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Correct: 1. "I'm broke" - meaning I have no money. 2. "This computer is broken" - meaning it doesn't work. Incorrect: 3. "This computer is broke." However, if something is really badly hosed, I often find myself using 3 on purpose just for emphasis. :-D "Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
None of the three are correct. This f***in' thing is busted. That is the correct form.
Software Zen:
delete this;