killer weed!
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Chris Losinger wrote: because That stupid answer does not explain to me why any one wants to scrammble their brains. I know to many people who seemed to be reasonably intelligent when they were younger and now can't hold down a minimum skill job because their brains are all messed up. Their lives are totally ruined because of drug abuse. From what I have seen, absolutely no good comes from it, and a lot of bad. Drugs are a lose-lose situation. Until someone can give me a logical, well thought out reason why marijuana (or any other hallucinagenic(sp?) drug) is a good or neccesary thing I will continue to oppose them, and continue to vote for the political party that holds the same view. 1
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: Drugs are a lose-lose situation. I was pretty floored reading this article: http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsecst0802,0,3665289.story?coll=ny-top-headlines[^] [edit]"I'd like to see it widely used in psychiatry," said Harvard psychiatrist John Halpern, a leading proponent. "It is potentially a very valuable tool."[/edit] WTF? What are these people thinking? Oh wait. They're not! Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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Christian Graus wrote: victimless crime I've never understood this "victimless crime" thing. Numerous studies have shown that the victims are brain damaged children born to alcoholic/drug abusing mothers, children alcoholic/drug abusive parents, not to mention the hundreds of pointless maimings and deaths of innocent people by drunk drivers and drug crazed people with weapons. Where, please tell me where, anyone can say taking drugs or abusing alcohol is victimless? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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PJ Arends wrote: One just has to take their head out of the sand and look around, you will see victims. It depends - do you propose that suicide is not a victimless crime, because it is murder ? The majority of suffering as a result of drugs is not because of the drugs, but because of our legal systems response to their existance. The fact that these laws do not reflect common sense is a reflection on politians who are scared to lose the votes of the uninformed. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: these laws do not reflect common sense is a reflection on politians who are scared to lose the votes of the uninformed. That is one argument that I really get sick of hearing. The notion that political success is predicated upon pandering to the politically "uninformed" (and therefore that it is in the vested interest of politicians to keep people "uninformed" so that they can be more easily controlled.) That is such an arrogant, elitist attitude. "Oh, if only everyone else were as smart as me, they would all vote the way I vote." What a pile of horse shit. First, I would argue that it is preferable to be uninformed than it is to be disinformed. Most people I know who consider themselves educated and therefore "informed" are more likely than not to have simply bought into one line or another of propaganda and are therefore disinformed and vote accordingly. The so-called "uninformed" (i.e., those not mindlessly accepting of the same propaganda as the disinformed) generally are those who depend on a broader range of life experiences than a single strain of disinformation to base their pollitical judgements on. Most drug related laws do not exist because of an uninformed rabble freightened into submission by pandering politicians. They exist because the typical voter wisely understands that no society is infinitely adaptable to every bad habit and vice that those most predisposed to reject prevailing social mores set around dreaming up. For better or worse, we expect a bit of restraint from those we share our civilization with and we expect our democratically elected officials to respect our concerns. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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PJ Arends wrote: Drugs are a lose-lose situation. I was pretty floored reading this article: http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsecst0802,0,3665289.story?coll=ny-top-headlines[^] [edit]"I'd like to see it widely used in psychiatry," said Harvard psychiatrist John Halpern, a leading proponent. "It is potentially a very valuable tool."[/edit] WTF? What are these people thinking? Oh wait. They're not! Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
From the article: "Doblin, 50, is not a doctor or a researcher, he has extensive experience with the drug, having taken it more than 100 times" And these are the type of people who are trying to push the drugs on society. "It didn't hurt me yet, so make it legal for everyone!"
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Chris Losinger wrote: i've taken drugs Now that explains a lot.
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Chris Losinger wrote: i've taken drugs Now that explains a lot.
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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The question of "Where are the victims?" has been answered, you just don't accept the answer. But I am still waiting for someone, anyone, to answer my question of "Why?". So far all I have gotten is mockery and excuses of how the current laws are bad, not why people want to fry their brains use drugs.
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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So you are saying that you would have no problem with your daughter getting high on marijuana every night, slowly frying her brains to the point she can't function. Heck, why stop at pot, kids are doing crystal meth, so we might as well legalize that too. That way the goverment can make money off it, can set quality standards so that the meth is pure, not laced with crap. It only kills those dumb enough to over do it, but that is their problem, right? The same can be said for any drug. Legalize them all! It's the law that's the problem, not the drugs. We as a civil society have a responsibility to look after the weak among us. And it is better to stop them from hurting themselves in the first place, rather then picking them up after they have hit rock bottom. We will never have 100% success, but we still have to try. Laws are not there to stop people from having fun, they are there to stop people from hurting themselves and others. I would have thought that you, as a Christian, would realize that. Seems that common sense is not so common after all:sigh:
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: We as a civil society have a responsibility to look after the weak among us. Hmm, that's a decidedly _un_right-wing thing to say. Interesting how your views flip-flop back and forth based on what people are talking about. I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
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Chris Losinger wrote: i've taken drugs Now that explains a lot.
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
You're an idiot. Haven't you heard? Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, and those quotes of yours are damn near pride. X| See, responding off-topic with stupid ad-hominem attacks gets us nowhere, and just makes people lose respect for your opinion. As for me, well I don't really mind if you think I'm an idiot. you're Canadian for the rest of the Canadians out there, relax, it's a joke I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
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PJ Arends wrote: We as a civil society have a responsibility to look after the weak among us. Hmm, that's a decidedly _un_right-wing thing to say. Interesting how your views flip-flop back and forth based on what people are talking about. I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
I`m SO there wrote: Hmm, that's a decidedly unright-wing thing to say. Interesting how your views flip-flop back and forth based on what people are talking about. Huh?!? Since when do "right-wing" people not care about others. We may have a different view on what is the proper thing to do in certain situations, but that doesn't mean we care any less. How are my views flip flopping? When I have I ever said that we should not look after people? I take personal offence at you accusing me of flip flopping. My sig has had the "power for good" quote for a long time. Part of that is to look after other people. Something that I take very seriously. Being opposed to drug use is part of that stance.
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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You're an idiot. Haven't you heard? Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, and those quotes of yours are damn near pride. X| See, responding off-topic with stupid ad-hominem attacks gets us nowhere, and just makes people lose respect for your opinion. As for me, well I don't really mind if you think I'm an idiot. you're Canadian for the rest of the Canadians out there, relax, it's a joke I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
I`m SO there wrote: You're an idiot hmmm... You don't know me, yet you call me an idiot. I don't think you are an idiot, just a hot head who reacts negatively to anyone who has a different opinion than you do. It is something you should work on. These forums are for friendly discussion, not for name calling. We all try to get along here so that we can share our knowledge and opinions. Name calling has no part in that. You are new here on CP, but you will learn.
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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... or lame fearmongering? http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/19416/[^] Software | Cleek
Here in Sydney I was once stopped by police with a sniffer dog on suspicion of be in possession of marijuana. Eventually I was released as I was innocent. However you can get needles delivered to your door free of charge, you can go to an injecting room and get free needles and medical supervision while you shoot up or you can go on a methadone program and get free drugs, needles, and medical supervision all paid for by us tax payers. I think drink is the biggest problem in most first world societies. How many of us can say we have never done something we regret while drunk?
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KaЯl wrote: It is more than time to stop the hypocrisy and to face the problems caused by prohibition. Totally agreed. KaЯl wrote: You can dream for centuries, it will never happen. Like for alcohol, and for the same reasons. And it begs the question - why wouldn't any sane society legalise it, make a profit on it, and spend the money advertising ways to help people give up. A bit like tobacco is today. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: And it begs the question - why wouldn't any sane society legalise it, make a profit on it, and spend the money advertising ways to help people give up. A bit like tobacco is today. Hear hear. Bush could legalise the "marijuwana", and use the taxes to pay off that deficit thingy :-)
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... or lame fearmongering? http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/19416/[^] Software | Cleek
The Streets - Irony of it all[^] I'm a beer person myself :rolleyes: Weed (and smoking) makes me feel X|
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So you are saying that you would have no problem with your daughter getting high on marijuana every night, slowly frying her brains to the point she can't function. Heck, why stop at pot, kids are doing crystal meth, so we might as well legalize that too. That way the goverment can make money off it, can set quality standards so that the meth is pure, not laced with crap. It only kills those dumb enough to over do it, but that is their problem, right? The same can be said for any drug. Legalize them all! It's the law that's the problem, not the drugs. We as a civil society have a responsibility to look after the weak among us. And it is better to stop them from hurting themselves in the first place, rather then picking them up after they have hit rock bottom. We will never have 100% success, but we still have to try. Laws are not there to stop people from having fun, they are there to stop people from hurting themselves and others. I would have thought that you, as a Christian, would realize that. Seems that common sense is not so common after all:sigh:
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: So you are saying that you would have no problem with your daughter getting high on marijuana every night, slowly frying her brains to the point she can't function. That would be quite a nightmare, but allthough the prime responsibility is hers, I am arrogant enough to believe that I can make a difference too. But I don't think the state should have any say in this other than running campaigns, because there is absolutely no countries that has an effective ban on those drugs, quite contrary it seems that the countries implementing the hardest restrictions are those that enjoys a greater problem with drug related crimes. PJ Arends wrote: Heck, why stop at pot, kids are doing crystal meth, so we might as well legalize that too. Why stop the restrictions with Marijuana then?, we could ban alcohol and smoking too, the effect on the public health would actually be visible if it was possible to implement. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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Just another pro-weed article by another junkie with a Phd. I dream of the day when goverments do not have to spend money on anti-drug law enforcement because the market for the garbage has dried up. I have only one question for the pro-weed crowd, WHY?!?
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: I have only one question for the pro-weed crowd, WHY?!? I'm not a pot smoker (it makes me really sick X|). I drink occasionally though. I drink because of the good feeling alcohol gives me, and I think this is the reason for most people. For pot smokers, I would guess the answer is the same. Of the people I know who smoke pot occasionally, they are as responsible and mature about it as any other adult I know who drinks alcohol. Now, if they, the adult pot smokers, can manage, then why meddling in their affairs? Children needs to be protected though. Any minor using mind altering substances is more likely to get hurt, and that is never a good thing on any level. -- Denn du bist, was du isst! Und ihr wisst, was es ist! Es ist mein Teil...?
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The question of "Where are the victims?" has been answered, you just don't accept the answer. But I am still waiting for someone, anyone, to answer my question of "Why?". So far all I have gotten is mockery and excuses of how the current laws are bad, not why people want to fry their brains use drugs.
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: The question of "Where are the victims?" has been answered no. i asked about my specific case. where is the victim in my case ? (and before you answer, let me assure you - it's not me) PJ Arends wrote: But I am still waiting for someone, anyone, to answer my question of "Why?". the answer is: people want to because they enjoy it. it's as simple as that. Software | Cleek
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KaЯl wrote: It is more than time to stop the hypocrisy and to face the problems caused by prohibition. Totally agreed. KaЯl wrote: You can dream for centuries, it will never happen. Like for alcohol, and for the same reasons. And it begs the question - why wouldn't any sane society legalise it, make a profit on it, and spend the money advertising ways to help people give up. A bit like tobacco is today. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: why wouldn't any sane society legalise it, make a profit on it, and spend the money advertising ways to help people give up Absolutely. And the only reason I've found why it doesn't happen this way is that our leaders/governing parties are involved in the business and get their percentage :suss:
Собой остаться дольше...
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PJ Arends wrote: The question of "Where are the victims?" has been answered no. i asked about my specific case. where is the victim in my case ? (and before you answer, let me assure you - it's not me) PJ Arends wrote: But I am still waiting for someone, anyone, to answer my question of "Why?". the answer is: people want to because they enjoy it. it's as simple as that. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: where is the victim in my case ? 1) Studies have shown that a single use [insert your favorite recreational drug here] can cause mutations in your germ cells which affect the DNA of your sperm which affect your children. Of course, you may not have any children. Yet. 2) Let's deal with something a little more concrete. Drugs are currently illegal. The victims are the people that are exploited in the production, transportation, and sales of these illegal drugs. The victims are people that suffer as a result of the money you spent buying your drugs (and please, let's not use the "I grow my own excuse"). You want to see victims of the drug industry, funded by your money? Why don't you visit Columbia? This is the reality, based on the current state of affairs. Can you honestly tell me your drug use (past, present, or future) does not in some small way contribute to those victims? And for pete's sakes, let's not get into "well, what about all that cheap Chinese manufactured clothes you buy at Walmart and all the child victims who manufacture it" analogies. Yes, they are victims too. More victims doesn't make the victims go away, does it? Chris Losinger wrote: let me assure you - it's not me) hehe. How can you be so sure? Now, before y'all think I'm sitting on my high horse, I'm not. I just think the "victimless" argument is a lot of crap. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
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Just another pro-weed article by another junkie with a Phd. I dream of the day when goverments do not have to spend money on anti-drug law enforcement because the market for the garbage has dried up. I have only one question for the pro-weed crowd, WHY?!?
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
While I no longer smoke any weed, I have friends that use it on a daily basis since it is the only drug that allows them to live with the continual pain of arthritis. Unfortunately no medical insurance coverage here in Canada will assist in the legal purchase of marijuana for arthritis pain control. However I do believe some provide coverage for use for other ailments. Oh and I still enjoy a cigar now and then, and my fist is usually sorrounding a can of Molson's on the weekends. :) Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] I think people should be required to have an operator's permit to use the internet. John Simmons