Where should I go...?:sigh:

Polite Programmer

Hi! I am not asking a programming question... I recently started Win32API Programming from Chalze Petzold Programming Windows Book, found it sometimes two overwhelming, and move to Jeff Prosie's Programming MFC... I was quite Happy and satisfied with MFC and I like MFC a lot... becuase its such a thin layer over the API... But here, things are going to change... .NET is here... But there are few problems... I dont like .NET at all, becuase of its slow and interpreted Apps, the C# syntax... and much more... Simply, I need speed, that .NET does not has to offer. Moreover, I have not seen any professional application based on .NET since its emmergance... My question is that should I continue learning MFC/Win32API/ATL stuff or should I dig into .NET jargon? I am very much confused... Please let me know your views on that... Polite Programmer:sigh:

Maximilien

as I've written in another thread, don't change unless you really need to. producing code with C++/MFC does not make it impossible to learn C#/.NET for your own knowledge, and maybe in the future, you will be more informed at the strengths and weaknesses or .net vs. mfc.

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David Parrott

Just 2 questions. What are you doing that requires so much speed? About the only think I can think of is games programming. In which case I wouldn't do that with .NET (yet), and I probably wouldn't use MFC either. Are you able to justify/prove the statement that .NET is slow? Knowing both is imo a good thing, they're not mutually exclusive. David Parrott

David Stone

becuase of its slow and interpreted Apps Most of the time, .NET apps (which are not interpreted btw) are just as fast as their unmanaged counterparts. The only performance penalties occur when you run the application for the first time, when it gets JITted (compiled into assembly language by the Just In Time compiler). the C# syntax So do Managed C++. Granted, the syntax is blah in this version, but it's a lot nicer in Whidbey. And MC++ gives you a bunch more control than C# does. Simply, I need speed, that .NET does not has to offer. What is it that you need so much speed for? If you don't mind my asking?

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

Jerry Hammond

Polite Programmer wrote: My question is that should I continue learning MFC/Win32API/ATL stuff or should I dig into .NET jargon? I am very much confused... Please let me know your views on that... You assume that learning one thing excludes you from learning another thing. To quote Spock, "You proceed from a false assumption." I have found that learning C++/VC++ has aided me in learning C#. if(learning==good) { knowledge.brain(expand); } else { knowledge.brain(mush); }

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papaya_zm

As hardware industries developing,the speed is not the problem any more.

tsmyrnio

if(this.RequiresLongerSyntax) { if(learning==good) { knowledge.brain(expand); } else { knowledge.brain(mush); } } else { if(learning==good) knowledge.brain(expand); else knowledge.brain(mush); } ;) while(Woman.Width > Woman.Height) Beer++;

Jerry Hammond

if(code < verbose) { Application.Close(); } else if(this.RequiresLongerSyntax) { else if(learning==good) { knowledge.brain(expand); } else { knowledge.brain(mush); };P

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sreejith ss nair

;) Sreejith Nair [ My Articles ]

Paul Watson

Well, it seems like you already know what you want and need. Still plenty of straight C++ and MFC work out there and will be for a long time. Though I'd still learn some .NET so that when the time does come to swap for you and your high-performance apps, you can. Also I would just like to point out that there are professional applications using .NET. They are called websites. More and more major websites are using ASP.NET. Websites like those require good performance. I know Windows App developers have little respect for web-apps but the sheer numbers of a large website mean that often they are serious applications requiring serious environments. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?

Colin Angus Mackay

Polite Programmer wrote: the C# syntax Isn't that much different from C++ (and I was a C++ programmer for longe 5+ years [5 years profesionally and 8 years if you include University & hobby programming]) Polite Programmer wrote: I dont like .NET at all, becuase of its slow Have you tried a release build? Polite Programmer wrote: Simply, I need speed I read an article recently, but I can't remember where at the moment, that was quite interesting. I was saying that due to the way the .NET garbage collection works applications that create lots of short-lived temporary objects (such as ASP.NET apps) operate much faster than non-managed counterparts. Polite Programmer wrote: I have not seen any professional application based on .NET since its emmergance What about a large number of websites? Including bits of codeproject itself. Are these not professional?

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Rohde

Well I'm using MFC as well. I think it's an OK framework. When C++/CLI comes out I'll start to look at it I reckon. I do urge you to at least look at C# to at least get a feeling for the whole .NET idiom. The reason that I personally haven't swithced wholy to .NET is that the future of WinForms seems unsure and as such I didn't feel like putting too much effort into learning a framework that MS killed almost immediately they put it out there. So for heavy GUI application work I'll continue to use MFC for now.

benjymous

Another great reason to use .NET over MFC/Win32/ATL is that Mono[^] provides a cross platform layer that's compatible with .NET In other words, you write your .NET application for Windows (using just .NET functionality, rather than any Win32 api stuff) and the same binary will run perfectly happily on any other platform that has Mono support (e.g. MacOS, Linux, etc) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Phoenix Paint - back from DPaint's ashes!

Nnamdi Onyeyiri

What is it that you need so much speed for? If you don't mind my asking? Maybe thier computer is slow :-D

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Nnamdi Onyeyiri

I know Windows App developers have little respect for web-apps Some have respect ;P ;)

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Polite Programmer

Well, I see that we are forced to develop interpreted applications for the next decade like sheeps.... Is that the case... The company's policy to capture other plateforms... And we are paying for this sometimes Visual Studio 2002 and sometimes 2003 beta, then 2003 beta1 etc... Microsft has earned a lot of $ so it must the support Platform SDK Style Development thorugh C and C++ for the years to come... And if .NET is so fast, then why Office 2003 is not built in some .NET Language....? They know, its slow... Why VS.NET IDE is not built using C#? Becuase the applications are memory hungry... 512 is nothing... Moreover, Everything is not NET Centric... Microsoft has provided us with swords to peal potatos... Everythig does'nt work everywhere... Even every application is not Doc/View App.... Morevoer, by professional Apps, I meant Desktop Apps....

benjymous

Polite Programmer wrote: Well, I see that we are forced to develop interpreted applications for the next decade like sheeps.... Is that the case... Nope, it's not the case What happens is this 1) You type your source, like you would with any language 2) You hit compile 3) The compiler compiles the source code into an intermediate bytecode, and bungs that in the .exe 4) You double click on the .exe icon 5) If you haven't run any other .NET apps this session then the CLR gets loaded (This is the same as would happen when you start an MFC app for the first time) 6) The bytecode in the exe gets compiled into machine code for your particular architecture 7) This compiled code gets executed Steps 3..6 may seem utterly pointless to you, but the point is that the same code created in step 3 can be run on any computer with a compatible CLR - it doesn't matter what processor or operating system, and it will get automatically converted into a format that the computer in question can use. Polite Programmer wrote: And if .NET is so fast, then why Office 2003 is not built in some .NET Language....? Because Office 2003 is an update to Office 2002, and so on back to the days of Word for DOS. When an app has millions upon millions of lines of code, how can someone sit down and reprogram the entire thing from scratch to make use of a new framework? -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Phoenix Paint - back from DPaint's ashes!

Marc Clifton

Polite Programmer wrote: I recently started Win32API Programming from Chalze Petzold Programming Windows Book, found it sometimes two overwhelming Honestly (and brutally so), my opinion is that if you find Petzold's book overwhelming, you shouldn't be doing programming at all. The worst kind of programmers that I've encountered are the ones that hide behind a simple language like VB or a framework like MFC. They're useless, because the minute you have to do something custom or complicated, they quiver and run away. Actually, they are useful--for doing all the grunt work that I hate doing. So, do you want to be a grunt, or do you want to be a real programmer? Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing

tsmyrnio

knowledge.brain((learning==good)?expand:mush); ;P boom biioootcch

brianwelsch

So the cool kids don't code with MFC or VB? :sigh: I can't stand this kind elitism. BW The Biggest Loser

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