I hate hunters
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Hehe, yeah - I've had that argument with veggies before - "You're against the cruel mistreatment of animals, and their exploitation and death to provide us nourishment, but what about all the poor yeast that died in their own excrement (*) in order to make that drink you've got?" (*) yes - alcohol is the excrement of yeast - the gorge themselves on sugar until they've crapped out so much that the liquid they're living in is too toxic for them -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Phoenix Paint - back from DPaint's ashes!
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Giles Bradshaw wrote: Eat extensively farmed beef and lamb and you are encouraging good animal welfare. Rubbish. It is not up to the consumer to implement humane practice in the meat industry, it is the industry itself. Unfortunately, the industry has shown time and time again that it is completely incapable or just merely reluctant to police itself. Terrible cruelty and suffering happens all the time, and if the public were made aware of it, I'm sure action would be taken. The meat industry that so many people are prepared to defend is not even prepared to open its doors to inspection, and there is no way you will get to see the operations of the abattoir on the evening news while you eat your dinner. There's no way our children will be taken on school trips to see the slaughtering process, and why? Because the slaughter of animals is a terrible sight to witness, and one that requires the hardest of hearts or wills to stomach. Of course, humans are quite capable of abstracting away the suffering of animals to suit their desire and I guess that supermarkets will never show videos of the slaughtering process at the meat counter. Does anyone else find it strange that the way meat is prouduced has to be hidden away from public view? Surely if it were perfectly natural and morally justifiable in the modern world, we would have no reservations about our children understanding and witnessing the process in all its gory detail. "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
Although we[1] do teach our children hunting and related skills, because of not just the callousness of some hunters, but the view of others that what they are doing is not in the same moral catefory as normal meat 'production'. [1] I use 'we' in a very general term and I can because many of 'us' do teach the children about the reality of meat production. Learn which South African airlines never to use on my blog.
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benjymous wrote: We all know that an animal had to die so that we can have meat on our plates It's equally true to say that an animal had to live to put food on your plate. If we didn't eat meat and drink dairy products then there would be no cattle in the world. Don't they have a right to exist. An animal on a well tended livestock farm would never have suffered like that live rabbit as the farmer would either have treated it or have put it out of it's misery before it got so bad. The simple fact is that almost all animals are in the wild are killed by other animals ie hunted. Those that aren't (ie ones at the top of the food chain) die a long miserable and painfull death. If we can give animlas a good quality of life by farming them then that's a good thing.
MOO!!
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Yet more absolute rubbish. No-one is going to be charged with a criminal offence if their dog chases the odd squirrel. It's just another myth that the pro-hunt lobby clings to and wishes to perpetuate simply to give their bloodsport more chance of being allowed to continue. Seriously, do you honestly think people will listen to this sort of crap and believe it? Regarding your dogs' liking for postman's leg, have you ever heard of a "lead" or even "training"? "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
phykell wrote: Yet more absolute rubbish Have you read the act? If a dog chases any wild animal apart from a rat or a rabbit then its owner is committing a criminal offense. The act does not differentiate between different mammals. phykell wrote: No-one is going to be charged with a criminal offence if their dog chases the odd squ I realise that people won't get prosecuted if their dogs chase squirrels but that's not the point. What they are doing will be illegal it's just that the authorities will only persecute specific groups. My dogs chase deer and I encourage them to do so as it clears them out of the land wwhere we are planting new trees. They also chase foxes, hares, rabbits rats and prtetty much any thing else they can find! They don't catch them, it's not cruel; but that is beside the point. I will be a criminal under the new act unless I either get rid of my dogs, chaion them up and don't take them for walks or kill all the wildlife on my farm. phykell wrote: Regarding your dogs' liking for postman's leg, have you ever heard of a "lead" or even "training"? They are trained to round up sheep but no they don't go on the lead nor will I chain them up. If I put them on a lead they attempt to strangle themselves. We need to have the dogs to keep the foxes away from our chickens, guard the house at night and to help us look after our sheep.
MOO!!
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bryce wrote: but i _like_ meat i LIKE steak i LIKE lamb, i LIKE a hamburger Do you like the fact that the animals suffer terribly just so you can enjoy the simple "taste" of meat? Do you think it's justified? No. While I appreciate that people can and do eat meat, I think animals should be treated humanely as much as is possible. Right now, millions of animals suffer needlessly just for meat-eaters to enjoy their meat a little more than the equivalent vegetarian alternative. As for hunting for mere sport, it's disgusting and it's immoral. If you are not going to eat it, you have NO right to hunt it and kill it. "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
phykell wrote: Do you like the fact that the animals suffer terribly just so you can enjoy the simple "taste" of meat? Do you think it's justified? don't really care to be honest know enough about the farming etc to know that they don't actually suffer much. The Culling process is very efficient as any farmer will tell you ...now...wheres my hamburger with bacon? Bryce --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids book :The Snot Goblin
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Here's another point to think about, for all the hunters here on CP (not for you, Hockey, it's for the guys who don't understand your text). Imagine you had four children. They are playing outside. Now a big animal appears and eats two of your kids. I know what you would think in this situation: That's nature. Animals eat other animals, there's nothing to worry about. I still have two kids left, so my species won't die out. You don't feel it's natural to be eaten by animals? No?! Why not? If you say that hunting is okay, because all animals have natural enemies, you have to accept that you also have natural enemies. If you don't accept your natural enemies, how can you be a natural enemy to other animals? Please feel offended, this post is meant to offend... *g*
Corinna John wrote: Here's another point to think about, for all the hunters here on CP (not for you, Hockey, it's for the guys who don't understand your text). Imagine you had four children. They are playing outside. Now a big animal appears and eats two of your kids. I know what you would think in this situation: Simple answer I'd go and shoot that animal. Next question. Bryce --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids book :The Snot Goblin
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phykell wrote: Yet more absolute rubbish Have you read the act? If a dog chases any wild animal apart from a rat or a rabbit then its owner is committing a criminal offense. The act does not differentiate between different mammals. phykell wrote: No-one is going to be charged with a criminal offence if their dog chases the odd squ I realise that people won't get prosecuted if their dogs chase squirrels but that's not the point. What they are doing will be illegal it's just that the authorities will only persecute specific groups. My dogs chase deer and I encourage them to do so as it clears them out of the land wwhere we are planting new trees. They also chase foxes, hares, rabbits rats and prtetty much any thing else they can find! They don't catch them, it's not cruel; but that is beside the point. I will be a criminal under the new act unless I either get rid of my dogs, chaion them up and don't take them for walks or kill all the wildlife on my farm. phykell wrote: Regarding your dogs' liking for postman's leg, have you ever heard of a "lead" or even "training"? They are trained to round up sheep but no they don't go on the lead nor will I chain them up. If I put them on a lead they attempt to strangle themselves. We need to have the dogs to keep the foxes away from our chickens, guard the house at night and to help us look after our sheep.
MOO!!
Giles Bradshaw wrote: keep the foxes away from our chickens I have one word for you: "fencing". Giles Bradshaw wrote: Have you read the act? If a dog chases any wild animal apart from a rat or a rabbit then its owner is committing a criminal offense. The act does not differentiate between different mammals. Have you? It says nothing of the sort and it's not as if there will ever be any cases of Fido having been accused of being used as a hunting dog whilst being walked on Hampstead Heath... Giles Bradshaw wrote:I realise that people won't get prosecuted if their dogs chase squirrels but that's not the point. What they are doing will be illegal it's just that the authorities will only persecute specific groups. Yes, the ones hunting. What's wrong with that? "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
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benjymous wrote: We all know that an animal had to die so that we can have meat on our plates It's equally true to say that an animal had to live to put food on your plate. If we didn't eat meat and drink dairy products then there would be no cattle in the world. Don't they have a right to exist. An animal on a well tended livestock farm would never have suffered like that live rabbit as the farmer would either have treated it or have put it out of it's misery before it got so bad. The simple fact is that almost all animals are in the wild are killed by other animals ie hunted. Those that aren't (ie ones at the top of the food chain) die a long miserable and painfull death. If we can give animlas a good quality of life by farming them then that's a good thing.
MOO!!
Giles Bradshaw wrote:An animal on a well tended livestock farm would never have suffered like that live rabbit as the farmer would either have treated it or have put it out of it's misery before it got so bad. If only that was the general case for the meat industry. I fear your own example is in the very small minority. "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
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Giles Bradshaw wrote: keep the foxes away from our chickens I have one word for you: "fencing". Giles Bradshaw wrote: Have you read the act? If a dog chases any wild animal apart from a rat or a rabbit then its owner is committing a criminal offense. The act does not differentiate between different mammals. Have you? It says nothing of the sort and it's not as if there will ever be any cases of Fido having been accused of being used as a hunting dog whilst being walked on Hampstead Heath... Giles Bradshaw wrote:I realise that people won't get prosecuted if their dogs chase squirrels but that's not the point. What they are doing will be illegal it's just that the authorities will only persecute specific groups. Yes, the ones hunting. What's wrong with that? "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
phykell wrote: I have one word for you: "fencing". They're totally free range and live naturally in the farm yard - we like that because we feel it's more welfare freindly. It's almost impossible to keep a fox out with fencing. phykell wrote: Have you read the act? Yes I have - I can see that you haven't. phykell wrote: hunting Hunting is specifivcally defined in the bill as a dog chasing a wild mammal. Asd you keep saying they won't persecute every one engaged in hunting as defined by the bill. Read it then you might know what you're talking about.
MOO!!
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David Stone wrote: Whoever voted you down and didn't comment on why is pathetic and obviously doesn't understand this thing called the ecosystem. Time to go back to bio class, kids. I hope your bio class explains how the ecosystem reacts when one species starts to hunt others for fun using a .30-30 Winchester or a .22 LR. Yes, even I am blogging now!
Well, a .22LR is only good for rabbits. Rabbits are called the bottom of the food chain for a reason - everything eats them. Rabbits also "bread like rabbits", meaning that everything can eat them, without serious affect on the population. There are strict limits on everything you can shoot with a .30-30 or more powerful gun. (there is some game that you don't want to shoot with a gun that weak) Those limits are set because we know what we can safely shoot. In fact we often need to shoot some of those animals because if we don't they will eat all their food and then starve to death. That is the entire herd will eat all the food before winter is over, and the entire herd dies! If we shoot 1/4th (number changes from year to year) of the herd, there is enough food and they will live. My bio class explained this. As for ecosystem, hunters are the ones supporting groups like Ducks Unlimited, that work to create ecosystems that work.
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What people don't realise about the UK bill is that it doesn't ban fox hunting it bans any body going out with a dog from chasing any wild mammal except a rabbit or a rat whether or not they are in control of that dog. How can I teach my dogs the difference between a rabbit and a hare? They will chase anything from squirrels to postmen. The fact is that Almost all dog walkers will be criminalised by this absurd legislation, but it will only be used to attack the small minority that the government actually wants to persecute.
MOO!!
The government likes to keep everybody breaking the smaller laws, that way they can sneak the bigger ones in with less public opposition.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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Thanks :-O It's the point for the "we all are animals"-people, who mean with that sentence "we all want to act like animals, but get treated better than animals". :cool:
Corinna John wrote: who mean with that sentence "we all want to act like animals, but get treated better than animals". Not exactly; more that we have already broken all the rules and can see how that messes things up, let alone with other animals.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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Here's another point to think about, for all the hunters here on CP (not for you, Hockey, it's for the guys who don't understand your text). Imagine you had four children. They are playing outside. Now a big animal appears and eats two of your kids. I know what you would think in this situation: That's nature. Animals eat other animals, there's nothing to worry about. I still have two kids left, so my species won't die out. You don't feel it's natural to be eaten by animals? No?! Why not? If you say that hunting is okay, because all animals have natural enemies, you have to accept that you also have natural enemies. If you don't accept your natural enemies, how can you be a natural enemy to other animals? Please feel offended, this post is meant to offend... *g*
Almost every animal (apart from those like us at the top of the food chain) get killed and eaten by other animals that's a fact. It's not nice but it is a fact. Often it's the best death they could have as it is quick. Animals at the top of the food chain (including us) tend to have slow and lingering deaths. When we don't control deer their poulation explodes because they have no natural predators. This creates all sorts of problems both for us and for them. I don't hunt but I feel that hunters are unfairly targeted as a minority. Every years countless millions of rats are poisoned in a horrific way under our city streets - rats are as intelligent as dogs. They die a horrible death, the poison is deliberatly selected so that they don't die straight away but head down for water so that they don't cause so much of a health hazard. How would you feel if millions of people were being poisoned in this way? From my point of view I would support us causing the deaths of millions of rats but against killing millions of people. If that's hypocritical then so be it.
MOO!!
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Well, a .22LR is only good for rabbits. Rabbits are called the bottom of the food chain for a reason - everything eats them. Rabbits also "bread like rabbits", meaning that everything can eat them, without serious affect on the population. There are strict limits on everything you can shoot with a .30-30 or more powerful gun. (there is some game that you don't want to shoot with a gun that weak) Those limits are set because we know what we can safely shoot. In fact we often need to shoot some of those animals because if we don't they will eat all their food and then starve to death. That is the entire herd will eat all the food before winter is over, and the entire herd dies! If we shoot 1/4th (number changes from year to year) of the herd, there is enough food and they will live. My bio class explained this. As for ecosystem, hunters are the ones supporting groups like Ducks Unlimited, that work to create ecosystems that work.
Henry miller wrote: In fact we often need to shoot some of those animals because if we don't they will eat all their food and then starve to death. Henry miller wrote: My bio class explained this. Bad bio class. That explains a lot. Actually, most of those species managed to survive a few thousand years even before the man appeared on Earth. So, somehow, they'll manage to not get extinct without us shooting them to help them. The same flawed reasoning can be applied to human beings. Some countries on Africa have children starving to death. So, let's start shooting them so they can make some progress. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Here's another point to think about, for all the hunters here on CP (not for you, Hockey, it's for the guys who don't understand your text). Imagine you had four children. They are playing outside. Now a big animal appears and eats two of your kids. I know what you would think in this situation: That's nature. Animals eat other animals, there's nothing to worry about. I still have two kids left, so my species won't die out. You don't feel it's natural to be eaten by animals? No?! Why not? If you say that hunting is okay, because all animals have natural enemies, you have to accept that you also have natural enemies. If you don't accept your natural enemies, how can you be a natural enemy to other animals? Please feel offended, this post is meant to offend... *g*
Whats your point? Its natural for that big animal to eat. If they can get humans they well. However it is also natural to protect ones children, and when big animal goes after my children I will shoot it. Lets reverse it. Say big animal comes to eat your children. What are you going to do? You have already admitted you don't hunt, I'm presuming that means you don't have the ability to shoot it. Now, assuming you can come up with an answer that will save your children (and several exist), why would you assume that I wouldn't use the same myself? If they don't work I fall back to the gun.
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Giles Bradshaw wrote:An animal on a well tended livestock farm would never have suffered like that live rabbit as the farmer would either have treated it or have put it out of it's misery before it got so bad. If only that was the general case for the meat industry. I fear your own example is in the very small minority. "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
That's my point, eating welfare freindly meat promotes good animal welfare. There are a lot of farmers out there who care about the welfare of there stock to deny this and generalise about the meat industry is just prejudice.
MOO!!
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The government likes to keep everybody breaking the smaller laws, that way they can sneak the bigger ones in with less public opposition.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
I think there should be a fixed quantity of laws - if they want to ban something they should have to legalise something else
MOO!!
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Hockey wrote: If we still lived in the old west i'd challenge him to a...uhh...standoff...hi-noon gun fight thing... And that's how you shoot yourself in the foot: you wouldn't have a chance... :) PS: I shot rabbits for fun and, trust me, the meal tasted better...
"though nothing will keep us together we can beat them for ever and ever" rechi
Yeah, I shot rabbits for fun also when I was a teenager on my way to become a hunter just like most people out here. UNTIL, a friend of mine and I happen to just about fill this one rabbit with holes and spent several hours tracking it down to find it laying just outside a hole with its guts hanging out and just barely alive and it was making an awful noise. That was they last hunting for me! What fun.... Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with "Recommendation" postings www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with Recent Poll List www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :)
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Sick mofo[^] Especially the part where he says... My father John Charron Jr. grew up during the depression. He hunted out of necessity, but this quickly grew into a passion When I read this...I thought...man I would love to hunt the hunters. It'd be cool to hunt something that actually shot back, instead of some poor animal. My Dad hunted until I was about 3 and my mom talked him into stopping, thank god, cuz I wouldn't stand for it either. What a savage, stupid sport...pointless...and for any of those who may try and argue...unless your hunting out of necessity...your doing it for fun...either for the thrill of the kill or whatever reason, it's not required...and for any statistics that say...hunting is a required essential part of the ecosystem...blah blah blah... Humans are killing the planet faster than anything...so why not knock off a couple hunters instead. Man hunting makes me sick...although i'm not a vegetarian I feel it important to have a well balanced meal (fruits, vegs, meat, etc) but I stricly condemn hunting for pleasure. I feel we (as in N. Americans or Westerners) live in an advanced society and have plenty of pre-processed food readily available at grocery stores, which already probably gets wasted to some degree. There is simply no need to hunt. This message is not directed at anyone specifically...and I appologize if I sound irrational, but jesus...what that guy said really pissed me off...it's his passion to kill animals... :(( If we still lived in the old west i'd challenge him to a...uhh...standoff...hi-noon gun fight thing... :) Gees how depressing...I was feelin' fine til I read that...I just really hate to see any animal die...even though I know I consume certain meats, like chicken, beef, etc...i've often thought of going vegan, but i'm afraid i'd go postal or something...and seriously start hunting hunters...becuz of a protein defficiency or something weird. Appologies if I offended anyone, but for real quit hunting!!! If you do...of course were all advanced human beings whom rather program than take the life of an innocent animal, especially for fun...thats whats disturbing me. Cheers :) How do I print my voice mail?
I've never hunted (yet?). Though look at the lives of a typical farm raised beef cattle and that of a deer, tell me which way is more humane. Seems the deer had a much better go at life than the cattle. I don't undestand what's so wrong about hunting for dinner vs. having some farmer kill it for you. Do you feel the same about going fishing? As far as what's required. Few people with the means live strictly by what is necessary. BW The Biggest Loser
"Farm Donkey makes us laugh.
Farm Donkey hauls some ass."
-The Stoves -
Whats your point? Its natural for that big animal to eat. If they can get humans they well. However it is also natural to protect ones children, and when big animal goes after my children I will shoot it. Lets reverse it. Say big animal comes to eat your children. What are you going to do? You have already admitted you don't hunt, I'm presuming that means you don't have the ability to shoot it. Now, assuming you can come up with an answer that will save your children (and several exist), why would you assume that I wouldn't use the same myself? If they don't work I fall back to the gun.
Exactly, that's why the fox runs away. Anthropomorphising like this is really stupid. We've got bigger brains so we're on the top of the pile - morality doesn;t come into it. We'll get our come uppance some time though if we all get wiped out by global warming, nuclear war, George Bush etc.
MOO!!