I hate hunters
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The government likes to keep everybody breaking the smaller laws, that way they can sneak the bigger ones in with less public opposition.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
I think there should be a fixed quantity of laws - if they want to ban something they should have to legalise something else
MOO!!
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Hockey wrote: If we still lived in the old west i'd challenge him to a...uhh...standoff...hi-noon gun fight thing... And that's how you shoot yourself in the foot: you wouldn't have a chance... :) PS: I shot rabbits for fun and, trust me, the meal tasted better...
"though nothing will keep us together we can beat them for ever and ever" rechi
Yeah, I shot rabbits for fun also when I was a teenager on my way to become a hunter just like most people out here. UNTIL, a friend of mine and I happen to just about fill this one rabbit with holes and spent several hours tracking it down to find it laying just outside a hole with its guts hanging out and just barely alive and it was making an awful noise. That was they last hunting for me! What fun.... Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with "Recommendation" postings www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with Recent Poll List www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :)
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Sick mofo[^] Especially the part where he says... My father John Charron Jr. grew up during the depression. He hunted out of necessity, but this quickly grew into a passion When I read this...I thought...man I would love to hunt the hunters. It'd be cool to hunt something that actually shot back, instead of some poor animal. My Dad hunted until I was about 3 and my mom talked him into stopping, thank god, cuz I wouldn't stand for it either. What a savage, stupid sport...pointless...and for any of those who may try and argue...unless your hunting out of necessity...your doing it for fun...either for the thrill of the kill or whatever reason, it's not required...and for any statistics that say...hunting is a required essential part of the ecosystem...blah blah blah... Humans are killing the planet faster than anything...so why not knock off a couple hunters instead. Man hunting makes me sick...although i'm not a vegetarian I feel it important to have a well balanced meal (fruits, vegs, meat, etc) but I stricly condemn hunting for pleasure. I feel we (as in N. Americans or Westerners) live in an advanced society and have plenty of pre-processed food readily available at grocery stores, which already probably gets wasted to some degree. There is simply no need to hunt. This message is not directed at anyone specifically...and I appologize if I sound irrational, but jesus...what that guy said really pissed me off...it's his passion to kill animals... :(( If we still lived in the old west i'd challenge him to a...uhh...standoff...hi-noon gun fight thing... :) Gees how depressing...I was feelin' fine til I read that...I just really hate to see any animal die...even though I know I consume certain meats, like chicken, beef, etc...i've often thought of going vegan, but i'm afraid i'd go postal or something...and seriously start hunting hunters...becuz of a protein defficiency or something weird. Appologies if I offended anyone, but for real quit hunting!!! If you do...of course were all advanced human beings whom rather program than take the life of an innocent animal, especially for fun...thats whats disturbing me. Cheers :) How do I print my voice mail?
I've never hunted (yet?). Though look at the lives of a typical farm raised beef cattle and that of a deer, tell me which way is more humane. Seems the deer had a much better go at life than the cattle. I don't undestand what's so wrong about hunting for dinner vs. having some farmer kill it for you. Do you feel the same about going fishing? As far as what's required. Few people with the means live strictly by what is necessary. BW The Biggest Loser
"Farm Donkey makes us laugh.
Farm Donkey hauls some ass."
-The Stoves -
Whats your point? Its natural for that big animal to eat. If they can get humans they well. However it is also natural to protect ones children, and when big animal goes after my children I will shoot it. Lets reverse it. Say big animal comes to eat your children. What are you going to do? You have already admitted you don't hunt, I'm presuming that means you don't have the ability to shoot it. Now, assuming you can come up with an answer that will save your children (and several exist), why would you assume that I wouldn't use the same myself? If they don't work I fall back to the gun.
Exactly, that's why the fox runs away. Anthropomorphising like this is really stupid. We've got bigger brains so we're on the top of the pile - morality doesn;t come into it. We'll get our come uppance some time though if we all get wiped out by global warming, nuclear war, George Bush etc.
MOO!!
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Here's another point to think about, for all the hunters here on CP (not for you, Hockey, it's for the guys who don't understand your text). Imagine you had four children. They are playing outside. Now a big animal appears and eats two of your kids. I know what you would think in this situation: That's nature. Animals eat other animals, there's nothing to worry about. I still have two kids left, so my species won't die out. You don't feel it's natural to be eaten by animals? No?! Why not? If you say that hunting is okay, because all animals have natural enemies, you have to accept that you also have natural enemies. If you don't accept your natural enemies, how can you be a natural enemy to other animals? Please feel offended, this post is meant to offend... *g*
Last I checked we were at the top of the food chain. We do have natural enemies, but we also have the ability(intellect) to protect ourselves against them, kill them for supper, or even take some of them as pets. It's good to be the king. BW The Biggest Loser
"Farm Donkey makes us laugh.
Farm Donkey hauls some ass."
-The Stoves -
Yeah, I shot rabbits for fun also when I was a teenager on my way to become a hunter just like most people out here. UNTIL, a friend of mine and I happen to just about fill this one rabbit with holes and spent several hours tracking it down to find it laying just outside a hole with its guts hanging out and just barely alive and it was making an awful noise. That was they last hunting for me! What fun.... Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with "Recommendation" postings www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with Recent Poll List www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :)
Rocky Moore wrote: just barely alive and it was making an awful noise I'm sorry to say it but you shoud have finished him as quickly as possible. A hunting dog is the best do the dirty job. Animals, IMO, were made by God to be at humans' disposal. I wouldn't mix the things up.
"though nothing will keep us together we can beat them for ever and ever" rechi
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Henry miller wrote: In fact we often need to shoot some of those animals because if we don't they will eat all their food and then starve to death. Henry miller wrote: My bio class explained this. Bad bio class. That explains a lot. Actually, most of those species managed to survive a few thousand years even before the man appeared on Earth. So, somehow, they'll manage to not get extinct without us shooting them to help them. The same flawed reasoning can be applied to human beings. Some countries on Africa have children starving to death. So, let's start shooting them so they can make some progress. Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: Actually, most of those species managed to survive a few thousand years even before the man appeared on Earth. Yes because there were lions, bears and wolves eating them. You don't see many of those running around now... Neil Van Eps "Sweet liquor eases the pain" - Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons
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Daniel Turini wrote: Actually, most of those species managed to survive a few thousand years even before the man appeared on Earth. Yes because there were lions, bears and wolves eating them. You don't see many of those running around now... Neil Van Eps "Sweet liquor eases the pain" - Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons
Neil Van Eps wrote: Yes because there were lions, bears and wolves eating them. You don't see many of those running around now... Oh, those animals whose heads are often hanged on a wall? Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I agree on the eating part. it's just that we've messed up our ecosystem so much that (at least where I live) hunting is still nessesary because we've first killed off all large predators :( Hunting 'just for fun' might be done by Orca's and cats but I hope I have an edge over these animals (called intelligence and self consciousness ) there are animals that will throw themselfes off cliffs if there's too many of them (we've all played lemmings). Pleas feel free to copy that also :) if you take animals as your holy example all the time you're doing yourself injustice (at least that's my opinion) Russell Morris wrote: What about the hunters that enjoy the hunt, and then eat their kill (all of the ones I know do)? With the overpoduction of meat that will just mean that somwhere else a piece of beef is going to go past it's expiry date, IMHO only hunting to keep the ecosystem a bit okay (after we've killed the big predators) is justifiable. (and no I dod NOT vote you down)
t's just that we've messed up our ecosystem so much that (at least where I live) hunting is still nessesary because we've first killed off all large predators This is true to a point. However, I'd argue a little bit about characterizing it as 'messed up' in this specific circumstance. We certainly have had a large impact on ecosystems by the very means you point out - we've displaced many predators (coyotes, wolves, large cats) because they had such a penchant for eating our farmed animals. So - as we have always had to - we must rely on our brains to carve out a successful place for ourselves. We do this by regulating hunting so that we can be reasonably sure we're not taking too many of a given species, and even ensuring that we don't throw off the male/female ratio to something which could endanger the herd itself. In some places (in the US at least - I'm not aware of similar programs in other parts of the world) we're even reintroducing predators into environments that we had removed them from previously. Technological advances have allowed us to keep these previously pesky predators out of our farmed animals without removing them from their ecosystem entirely. And why is this deserving of a frowny face? We're part of the ecosystem too. We cannot live without interacting with it. Your existence will cause pain, hardship, and stress on other organisms in the ecosystem - that's how ecosystems regulate what's in them. -- Russell Morris "So, broccoli, mother says you're good for me... but I'm afraid I'm no good for you!" - Stewy
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People have been hunting since before they were human. We're part of the environment too, you know. The whole "nature" thing is pretty much: A. Eat sunlight B. Eat A C. Eat A and/or B There are quite a few things that fall into C: lions, bears, eagles, rats, spiders, killer whales, etc..., and I have a really hard time calling them good, evil, guilty, innocent, or any other anthropomorphic attribute that we attach to them. And before you get into the 'not for pleasure' stuff - killer whales are known to kill seals for fun (i.e. kill and toy with, but not eat). My two cats used to torture moles in my garage - literally! They would get one of the helpless little bastards in between the two of them, and they'd pretty much play soccer with it until it died. They never ate it - only toyed with it. what that guy said really pissed me off...it's his passion to kill animals... But you're a better person, since your passion is to eat animals, choosing to instead leave the dirty work of actually killing them to someone else? That's like the pacifist Dali Lama employing body guards... What about the hunters that enjoy the hunt, and then eat their kill (all of the ones I know do)? and for any statistics that say...hunting is a required essential part of the ecosystem...blah blah blah... You can "blah blah blah" at facts all you want - it just means you're incorrect. No species lives in magic harmony with its environment. Living in harmony with your environment means that you fit into A, B, or C above. -- Russell Morris "So, broccoli, mother says you're good for me... but I'm afraid I'm no good for you!" - Stewy
Russell Morris wrote: People have been hunting since before they were human. We're part of the environment too, you know Never said we weren't. I said were advanced enough that hunting for fun was not neccesary. There is already plenty of pre-processed food in NA, so hunting for sport seems cruel. Actually it is cruel!!! Russell Morris wrote: And before you get into the 'not for pleasure' stuff - killer whales are known to kill seals for fun (i.e. kill and toy with, but not eat). So...now your comparing humans to animals??? I hate when I see an animal kill another animal, really I do...but no matter how much I lecture an animal....itll never get the point... It's their animal instinct...which humans may have, but i've personally never felt compelled to kill for frills. Russell Morris wrote: What about the hunters that enjoy the hunt, and then eat their kill (all of the ones I know do)? Funny cuz I bet the hunting association or NRA or whatever says statistically speaking, hunting is good for the ecosystem, blah blah blah...at the same time Peta or similar animal rights organizations say the opposite...that hunting is NOT required...and as for any independant research firm that comes to it own conclusion...probably funded by the organization it favours. Anyways my point is...it's he said against she said...however one perspective is from a neanderthal hunter group who fights for their right to hunt and kill in a selfish matter and the other side is arguing from a perspective which does NOT benefit them at all...they do not profit financially or anything. My second point...as you said...people have hunted from before they were humans...exactlly...so you don't even know the outcome of what would "actually" happen if hunting seized to exist. If I was required to make an executive decision...hunting for pleasure would be banned. It serves no purpose...sorry... As for the arguments my father has used... What if I want to know exactly what I am eating, therefore I hunt and plant my own potatoes, etc... He grew up in the bush as a first generation Canadian I say this...get lost and don't take advantage of any kind of civilized lifestyle...no medical, no convienences, no nothing human made unless you made it, if your so set on being a primate go back way into the bush and start rubbing sticks and string togather, cuz you'll need fire. Cheers :) How do I prin
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Henry miller wrote: In fact we often need to shoot some of those animals because if we don't they will eat all their food and then starve to death. Henry miller wrote: My bio class explained this. Bad bio class. That explains a lot. Actually, most of those species managed to survive a few thousand years even before the man appeared on Earth. So, somehow, they'll manage to not get extinct without us shooting them to help them. The same flawed reasoning can be applied to human beings. Some countries on Africa have children starving to death. So, let's start shooting them so they can make some progress. Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: The same flawed reasoning can be applied to human beings. Some countries on Africa have children starving to death. So, let's start shooting them so they can make some progress. Exactly How do I print my voice mail?
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Yeah, it can be pretty sad how some act about hunting. They claim it is the skill of the hunt as they get out there and use a riffle with a high powered scope to snipe an animal. Let them hunt with their bare hands and see how far it gets. That would show a real bear hunter :) I know, a lot of people enjoy it, and I live out here in Oregon, USA were there is a lot of hunting. But the truth be known, with many, it is mostly because guys want to get together, drink a bunch of beer, act macho and get away from their wives for a few days. It is nothing to go out deer or elk hunting and spend $500 or better along with days of your time to save a few hundred in beef from the store :) There is also the hunt of the perfect rack so that you can put it on your wall and brag to everyone how you slaughter that poor old animal that had meat tougher than shoe leather… Personally, unless you have to actually hunt for food (which eliminates 99% of the hunters), try a camera and leave the animals for those that need them. Maybe with all the "wasting" diseases (like Mad Cow for deer) out there in the wild game, it will slow down a bit. You have to keep in mind though, that the herds down in size so that they do not over populate. Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with "Recommendation" postings www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with Recent Poll List www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :)
Rocky Moore wrote: Let them hunt with their bare hands and see how far it gets. That would show a real bear hunter I would pay good money to see that... :) Rocky Moore wrote: There is also the hunt of the perfect rack so that you can put it on your wall and brag to everyone how you slaughter that poor old animal that had meat tougher than shoe leather… EVERYONE i've know who hunted, my uncles, parents friends, etc...thats exactly what it was about...hanging some poor moose head on the wall...and having moose sausage or something... Rocky Moore wrote: Personally, unless you have to actually hunt for food (which eliminates 99% of the hunters), try a camera and leave the animals for those that need them. I agree 110%... I find hunters arguments so juvenile and naive...regardless of whether it's a 15 year old boy or 65 year man...they all argue the same thing...it's like they have a cult of savages. As for those whom need to hunt...who really needs to hunt, unless you live in a undeveloped part of the world and preprocessed food is not available...or maybe even way out in the bush...other than that I see no reason...in fact it's actually probably a waste. Cheers :) How do I print my voice mail?
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My inlaws like to hunt a lot and they wonder why I refuse to go. But like you say, I just don't see the point in blowing something away for sport. Animals feel pain too so why would I want to inflict that on an animal that has done nothing to me? 5 from me.
Your a good man. Cheers :) How do I print my voice mail?
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Hockey wrote: What a savage, stupid sport...pointless...and for any of those who may try and argue...unless your hunting out of necessity...your doing it for fun...either for the thrill of the kill or whatever reason, it's not required...and for any statistics that say...hunting is a required essential part of the ecosystem...blah blah blah... yes indeedy, everyone should be morally superior 'puter nerds. Or perhaps its horses for courses and some people like hunting the same way some people like to play puter games, and others like to play vile soccer or even some of those weirdo american games which they seem to insist on running world championships for when its only ever american teams completing...or that brutal rugby game thingy, or darts or tiddlywinks or.... and u know what..you'll always find people ragging in it coz they have a different point of view. See my .sig Bryce --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids book :The Snot Goblin
Hockey is a pretty brutal sport, at times...but heres the difference... An animal cannot speak for itself or atleast communicate as to whether or not it feels comfrotable being hunted by some camo-covered lunatic who kills for frills... You think if I asked these hunters if they'd mind me shooting at them with a high power rifle while completely concealed (so they couldn't see me or fire back) they would give me their approval...? I wish they would...it'd be much more interesting getting shot at after firing a round or two. How do I print my voice mail?
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I'd like to give you 10 points, but 5 is the maximum. Killing a creature that can feel pain and fear is murder, no matter if it looks similar to a monkey or not. Of course, there was a time when people could not find enough food, so they had to eat animals. But today we can choose what to eat, we can be vegetarians, if we want to. So where's the reasons to go on killing without need? I stopped eating meat when I was ten years old - that means, I'm a "veggie" since 14 years ago. It works, believe me. :cool:
I appreciate your comments, howvere I was not advocating not eating meat...We are omnivores after all...I just accept hunting for sport...and I try not to think about the chickens when I eat eggs, cows when I drink milk, etc... Hunting for sport is really sick...if I shot someone and hung their head up on my wall everyone would call hannibal. So I fail to see how it's acceptable when a moose head isw hung up on a wall. How do I print my voice mail?
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but i _like_ meat i LIKE steak i LIKE lamb, i LIKE a hamburger and i LIKE to going to the gym and working out and doing my hapkido and i like beer too So i think i'm happy for animals to be used to feed me...and no i don't mind sticking a hook in a fishes face and i don't mind gutting and filleting it myself. Just don't ask me to do the dishes ;) bryce --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids book :The Snot Goblin
Heres is where i'm slightley a hypocrite...in fact I clarify this in my original post. I was not suggesting eating meat was wrong...we are designed for it...we can digest it and have the teeth to chew meat, so obviously were intedned to eat meat. What I was saying, is that hunting for sport is barbarric and unneccsary...there is already enough preproceesed meat, killing any more animals is just6 wasting...already food in deli's get wasted and thrown out... P.s-There are protein supplements which i'm sure you aware of...rice or soy protein does just as good of job. How do I print my voice mail?
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bryce wrote: but i _like_ meat i LIKE steak i LIKE lamb, i LIKE a hamburger Do you like the fact that the animals suffer terribly just so you can enjoy the simple "taste" of meat? Do you think it's justified? No. While I appreciate that people can and do eat meat, I think animals should be treated humanely as much as is possible. Right now, millions of animals suffer needlessly just for meat-eaters to enjoy their meat a little more than the equivalent vegetarian alternative. As for hunting for mere sport, it's disgusting and it's immoral. If you are not going to eat it, you have NO right to hunt it and kill it. "Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese stuff! In jail we had to be in this dumb kabuki play about the 47 Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori!"
phykell wrote: As for hunting for mere sport, it's disgusting and it's immoral. If you are not going to eat it, you have NO right to hunt it and kill it. In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as pre-processed meat or deli's...instead each family if they wanted meat would have to hunt their own kill... phykell wrote: Do you like the fact that the animals suffer terribly just so you can enjoy the simple "taste" of meat? Do you think it's justified? In all fareness they don't all suffer...my mother and father always buy their meat from a free-reign farm...animals are free to roam 100's of acres and live almost as they would if they were totally free...not that it matters cuz their eventually killed... :(( How do I print my voice mail?
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This is bringing up the whole Animal Rights vegetarian issue. For the record, my Fiancée is vegetarian, and I'm happy to eat meat (tho do so seldomly, as it's far easier just to cook veggie meals!) About a year ago we found a rabbit in the middle of the road, with very bad Myxomatosis. We took it to the vet, who said she couldn’t do anything, so had to put it down. This upset me, (the silly, soppy thing that I am,) that the poor animal had been miserable, and died a needless death - The vet said it’s normal in infected rabbits that they just loose the will to live, and go and sit in the middle of the road to die. My fiancée then questioned me on why I was happy to have animals die so I could eat them, yet upset by this rabbit dying. What I told her (which is totally what I believe) is that if an animal dies to provide me food, then, in my opinion, it died a noble death, and I am grateful of it’s sacrifice for me (back to the whole natural food chain bit) – I will always make an effort to buy better quality organic/free range meat whenever there’s an option - for another thing, it just tastes much better!) I’m a complete pacifist, and would never want to kill anything just for the pure sake of killing it, but I know in my heart that if I was in a situation where killing an animal would provide food to keep me alive, then I would have to do it. Really it’s supermarkets to blame. If you ask a kid where milk comes from, they’ll probably tell you it was from Asda (or whatever chain their parents shop at), and will often be genuinely surprised if you make the connection between the cute pink things they’ve seen in animal parks and the sausages on their plate. We all know that an animal had to die so that we can have meat on our plates, but most people are happy to just forget about it (or think “hell, they’re not human, who gives a toss if they suffer”) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Phoenix Paint - back from DPaint's ashes!
benjymous wrote: This is bringing up the whole Animal Rights vegetarian issue. Not exactly what i was aiming at... I agree with most of what you said, if not all...I eat meat...I thought i made that clear...I don't plan on changing that...we are omnivores... I just don't believe hunting is appropriate in these days and age...it's barbarric...and not neccsary... Cheers :) How do I print my voice mail?
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Hockey wrote: and for any statistics that say...hunting is a required essential part of the ecosystem...blah blah blah... But it is. Hunting animals isn't for me at all, I much prefer hunting other consenting adults[^] for the reasons you've stated, but in many environments where animals exist because they were introduced by humans or humans have removed a part of the ecosystem that would normally cull them then we need to accept responsibility and step in to manage their numbers. The environment would be damaged far more quickly if we allowed them to get out of control as we have with ourselves. Paul says it quiote nicely above - "we are all animals". Why not let people who enjoy the experience do the dirty work. It might just help save the lives of other animals that would be killed for sport.
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
First of all...where do you live...how did you get those killer guns (no pun intended)... Yer like Scarface..."Lemme show you ma' lil' friend" How do I print my voice mail?
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i think you missed the point Jubjub i also find it highly entertaining that you don't want others opinions pushed on you (which i doubt that they are) but you're more than happy to tell us your point of view :) personally i couldn't give a monkey's if someone wants to hunt rabbits, mice, wild pigs or not, i've got more improtant things to worry about. My preference is that they leave plenty for others and don't make 'em suffer too much. But thats my point of view...game of team fortress anyone? bryce --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids book :The Snot Goblin
Sounds fun to me :) "If you're too careful, your whole life can become a f---in' grind." - Mike McD (Rounders)