Source control problems
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Jan R Hansen wrote: That seems to be the exact problem. On my laptop, the path is e.g.c:\wwwroot\blah - where on my desktop it would be n:\customers\blah\website. So you're telling me I'm on a dead end here ? Yep, it will not work with VS You could use subst to map a drive on both computers, so your web would be at someting like "u:<\webs\someweb\" or whatever... Jan R Hansen wrote: Is vault good ? As good ad $1200 ? Anyone else with vault experience ? They have a free demo, actually they have a free single developer version ;) You could try it, it integrates nicely into VS and form the developers point of view it works almost just like VSS. I did write a bit about it here[^]. - Anders My Photos
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i wont bother asking if you liked vault, since i am assuming you do, otherwise you wouldn't be linking to it ;) is it *really* easy to use? i have a few small app's at home that i write, and i have been looking into a source control system. we use CVS at work, which certainly does the job. however i don't want all the fuss at home. if it isn't simple and easy to use i will stick with making zip's of the source code every now and then *shrug* i am lazy like that :)
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i wont bother asking if you liked vault, since i am assuming you do, otherwise you wouldn't be linking to it ;) is it *really* easy to use? i have a few small app's at home that i write, and i have been looking into a source control system. we use CVS at work, which certainly does the job. however i don't want all the fuss at home. if it isn't simple and easy to use i will stick with making zip's of the source code every now and then *shrug* i am lazy like that :)
have you considered Tortoise SVN in "sand box" mode? no server, it takes a directory of your choice and stores the subversion source control format from client only. Both Tortoise CVS and SVN clients have this ability, though at work we use full CVS client-server model, at work I have been running client server CVS but debating on testing out SVN at home so I am looking into it. http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/[^] _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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this is a huge problem right now IMO. Most source control systems either suck or are way too expensive to be useful. I am currently using WIN CVS but it's barely limping along and I don't understand enough about it to fix some of the quirks it has (god help you if you want to move a directory to another project and keep it's history without doing it manually on the server). Because of this I wrote a source control system which turned out to be harder than I expected. However, due to many other projects working out well and taking all my time I wasn't able to finish it. I'm hoping to get it done sometime next year. I can relate to your frustration.
supposedly that was the reason for Subversion. Take the power of CVS, add capability seen in a few other commercial apps, and fix all the bugs, add flexibility. Note the first 3 points off the subversion website: Subversion's Features http://subversion.tigris.org/[^] Most current CVS features. Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise. Directories, renames, and file meta-data are versioned. Lack of these features is one of the most common complaints against CVS. Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but also directories, copies, and renames. It also allows arbitrary metadata ("properties") to be versioned along with any file or directory, and provides a mechanism for versioning the `execute' permission flag on files. Commits are truly atomic. No part of a commit takes effect until the entire commit has succeeded. Revision numbers are per-commit, not per-file; log messages are attached to the revision, not stored redundantly as in CVS. They come right and say their goal was to fix CVS, and then start listing the main complaints on CVS. My one complaint about Subversion is that our security folks will not approve Apache, and the mini-client is not secure (everything passed in the open), so outside of home use, I am not sure I will be able to use Subversion at work for a very long time. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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thought so.... Actually, I once tried to set up a CVS system - but never got far. Then I was recommended Subversion, never got very far with that either. Are there any decent Windows-clients and / or VS integrated tools that run against Subversion ? Should I pefer that over CVS ? - they claim that they want to re-do CVS, just making it better... And then, just out of curiosity (spell check, please...) : How many of you know / have worked with "Continuus", these days known as "CM/Synergy" ? It's a source code control / configuration management system that took me 3 years of daily use as a developer to "understand". But now we're friends :) I have no illusions about being less than a year about setting that up.. and its probably extremely expencive... Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
For Subversion there is TortoiseSVN that is a Windows Explorer shell. Very handy. I believe there are tools to integrate Subversion into Visual Studio, but have not used them. Subversion really is good stuff... been using it for a while now. In particular, the nice thing is that the whole repository has a version (so you can do atomic commit operations), and directories are under version control (not just files.) An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less, until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
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supposedly that was the reason for Subversion. Take the power of CVS, add capability seen in a few other commercial apps, and fix all the bugs, add flexibility. Note the first 3 points off the subversion website: Subversion's Features http://subversion.tigris.org/[^] Most current CVS features. Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise. Directories, renames, and file meta-data are versioned. Lack of these features is one of the most common complaints against CVS. Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but also directories, copies, and renames. It also allows arbitrary metadata ("properties") to be versioned along with any file or directory, and provides a mechanism for versioning the `execute' permission flag on files. Commits are truly atomic. No part of a commit takes effect until the entire commit has succeeded. Revision numbers are per-commit, not per-file; log messages are attached to the revision, not stored redundantly as in CVS. They come right and say their goal was to fix CVS, and then start listing the main complaints on CVS. My one complaint about Subversion is that our security folks will not approve Apache, and the mini-client is not secure (everything passed in the open), so outside of home use, I am not sure I will be able to use Subversion at work for a very long time. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
You can set subversion to use SSH. Also there is a Subversion Visual Studio .NET plugin that you can use called ankhsvn at http://ankhsvn.com/(Sorry don't know how to do the cliketty thing) combined with tortoise its pretty good.
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Jan R Hansen wrote: I've just spend well over 2 hours trying to get Visual SourceSafe to do what I want. But I can't. Don't worry, no one can :) Jan R Hansen wrote: Does anybody have any good tips for working with VSS / Visual studio when it comes to web projects ? Don't use it. Simply put, VSS sucks. It's not client-server, so it is anything but safe. It's slow. It does not scale. It stores files in a proprietary format, and if its files become corrupt (and it occurs often), you're doomed. The file-locking model is a hassle. ("Hey, Joe, can you please release the lock on the file xyz.csproj?"). Branching is a joke. Readonly files are a creation of a sadistic. Damn, I don't want a tool to be in my way all the time. I only want to care about the source code control tool when I use it (checkin, checkout, update, branch and merge). I don't want to care about it everytime I need to do a minor change to a file. Why should the repository need to know where on the disk you put the files? What if I want to move the files on my disk, or, what if I use different drive letters on different machines? Ever tried a single VSS repository with 30 developers? Ever heard of ANALYZE.EXE? If not, run it and try not to faint when you read the results. Over a 256K VPN, a "get latest version" can easily take 20 minutes! Try to migrate your history to other SCC systems. You can't - although there are some ugly hacks that allow you to migrate it to CVS. Most decent SCC systems have straightforward, well documented file/database formats and an export/import tool to allow you to migrate data to other SCC systems. The only advantages I can see on using VSS is that it's tightly integrated into VS and that it does not need any setup, since it's installed with VS.NET. Next time, try using CVS, Subversion, Perforce, anything but VSS. Setting up other SCC systems will take you a day, but you'll recover it quickly. Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: Ever tried a single VSS repository with 30 developers? Yes. That's what I'm working with right now. I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to get the senior devs to get us to move up to Perforce. :sigh::sigh: The kindest thing you can do for a stupid person, and for the gene pool, is to let him expire of his own dumb choices. [Roger Wright on stupid people] We're like private member functions [John Theal on R&D] We're figuring out the parent thing as we go though. Kinda like setting up Linux for the first time ya' know... [Nitron]
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thanks... That seems to be the exact problem. On my laptop, the path is e.g.c:\wwwroot\blah - where on my desktop it would be n:\customers\blah\website. So you're telling me I'm on a dead end here ? Is vault good ? As good ad $1200 ? Anyone else with vault experience ? Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
Sorry for the shameless self promotion here, but you should try ionForge Evolution. We have a free two user unrestricted trial, and are currently offering discounted pricing for competitive upgrades. If you are using something else and are not satisfied, you can get Evolution at $99 a license, well below the standard pricing of $550. It has VS.net integration, is extremely easy to use, and painless migration from vss. Feel free to email with any questions about it. Lucas Heneks Software Engineer ionForge Company lheneks@ionforge.com www.ionforge.com
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You can set subversion to use SSH. Also there is a Subversion Visual Studio .NET plugin that you can use called ankhsvn at http://ankhsvn.com/(Sorry don't know how to do the cliketty thing) combined with tortoise its pretty good.
I have got someone working on the approvals for SSH as well. When he has approval for SSH for another application completed, I will jump on the bandwagon, for Subversion being next and use the CVS upgrade tools. We haven't made our first branch, and I hear that is where the CVS server files conversion process is in the most development still. I am trying. But for now I can play with subversion at home and learn to set it up, but no go at work yet, unless subversion adds support for IIS (which is security approved). :doh: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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supposedly that was the reason for Subversion. Take the power of CVS, add capability seen in a few other commercial apps, and fix all the bugs, add flexibility. Note the first 3 points off the subversion website: Subversion's Features http://subversion.tigris.org/[^] Most current CVS features. Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise. Directories, renames, and file meta-data are versioned. Lack of these features is one of the most common complaints against CVS. Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but also directories, copies, and renames. It also allows arbitrary metadata ("properties") to be versioned along with any file or directory, and provides a mechanism for versioning the `execute' permission flag on files. Commits are truly atomic. No part of a commit takes effect until the entire commit has succeeded. Revision numbers are per-commit, not per-file; log messages are attached to the revision, not stored redundantly as in CVS. They come right and say their goal was to fix CVS, and then start listing the main complaints on CVS. My one complaint about Subversion is that our security folks will not approve Apache, and the mini-client is not secure (everything passed in the open), so outside of home use, I am not sure I will be able to use Subversion at work for a very long time. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
yup. I tried to get subversion installed and failed. I can't install the webserver for security reasons so I tried to get the service working. I gave up after a couple hours.
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Daniel Turini wrote: you never will have problems again Until you try to checkin a binary file type that it does not recognise! ;) Ant. I'm hard, yet soft.
I'm coloured, yet clear.
I'm fruity and sweet.
I'm jelly, what am I? Muse on it further, I shall return! - David Walliams (Little Britain)Check binaries in with -kb :) -- Weiter, weiter, ins verderben. Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben. Are you bright too?[^]
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this is a huge problem right now IMO. Most source control systems either suck or are way too expensive to be useful. I am currently using WIN CVS but it's barely limping along and I don't understand enough about it to fix some of the quirks it has (god help you if you want to move a directory to another project and keep it's history without doing it manually on the server). Because of this I wrote a source control system which turned out to be harder than I expected. However, due to many other projects working out well and taking all my time I wasn't able to finish it. I'm hoping to get it done sometime next year. I can relate to your frustration.
I have experience with these SCCS systems CVS, RCS, Subversion, Clearcase (Rational), StarTeam (Borland) I have to say ease of use and functionality per dollar I like StarTeam. Easy branching, file moving, client/server based, easy merging, awesome integration with VS.NET and Eclipse. Works with any RDBMS and even includes MSDE if you don't have it. The price for the std version and a single user is around $700 I believe. If you do development worth keeping then the price is just right. CVS and Subversion were way too manual for what I wanted and clearcase is over kill for a few developers. I want something that I don't even have to think about so I can focus on my software not how I have to version control it. I was able to setup StarTeam and migrate all of our code from RCS to Starteam in half a day. - Drew
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have you considered Tortoise SVN in "sand box" mode? no server, it takes a directory of your choice and stores the subversion source control format from client only. Both Tortoise CVS and SVN clients have this ability, though at work we use full CVS client-server model, at work I have been running client server CVS but debating on testing out SVN at home so I am looking into it. http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/[^] _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
i did experiment with SVN a little at home, but i really didnt like the hoops i had to jump through to see the old changes i had made to a commited file. having said that, i cannot make wincvs do this at all :wtf: i never noticed any reference to a "sand box" mode. i will go looking for this, it sounds ideal for my needs :-D it is only me, on a stand alone PC. i just want to track how i have changed the code over time. thanks for the hint :)
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i did experiment with SVN a little at home, but i really didnt like the hoops i had to jump through to see the old changes i had made to a commited file. having said that, i cannot make wincvs do this at all :wtf: i never noticed any reference to a "sand box" mode. i will go looking for this, it sounds ideal for my needs :-D it is only me, on a stand alone PC. i just want to track how i have changed the code over time. thanks for the hint :)
looks like I am using archaic language to describe it... :) okay, I am showing my age.... darn.... "Local repository" is how it is listed. here it is for both tortoiseSVN and tortoiseCVS: http://www.tortoisecvs.org/faq.shtml#cvsinit[^] http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/docs/TortoiseSVN_en/ch03s03.html[^] by setting up that way, no server is required, but there is no group access, and network drives are NOT recommended. This is only available for individual developers to keep their own code on a computer under source control. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)