virus question
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Scenario A Imagine a virus that infects a computer by a known security fault, which had been patched years ago. If the computer is busy downloading updates, it deletes itself without doing anything at all. If the computer not donwloading updates at the moment, the virus's only operation is to show a message box Hi there, your system is not up to date. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B The virus from scenario A has got a second feature. Instead of a simple message box, it displays a question box Do you want to report this problem to Microsoft, and start the automatic update service now? If the user is not too shocked to click, he can cancel the virus, or let it fix the security hole. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Post your thoughts, if you have any. Vote '1', if you're not able to discuss. _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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Scenario A Imagine a virus that infects a computer by a known security fault, which had been patched years ago. If the computer is busy downloading updates, it deletes itself without doing anything at all. If the computer not donwloading updates at the moment, the virus's only operation is to show a message box Hi there, your system is not up to date. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B The virus from scenario A has got a second feature. Instead of a simple message box, it displays a question box Do you want to report this problem to Microsoft, and start the automatic update service now? If the user is not too shocked to click, he can cancel the virus, or let it fix the security hole. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Post your thoughts, if you have any. Vote '1', if you're not able to discuss. _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
Scenario A: 1. The programmer is an idiot. 2. Punishment is appropriate. 3. We are not amused. Scenario B: 1. The programmer is an idiot. 2. Punishment is appropriate. 3. We are not amused. If the programmer really was concerned, he/she should have reported the hole in security to Microsoft, or if he didn't like Microsoft, he/she could have published the information elsewhere where Microsoft would be sure to find it. How the world is the average user, even programmers, expected to recognize the virus as harmless? If I got a popup box like that, I would expect that my computer was infiltrated. I would have to run a thorough check with Norton AV, and if it didn't find anything, which would be the case here, then I would have to wipe the harddisk and make a reinstall, which would cost me at least a half days work. Not very funny indeed. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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Scenario A Imagine a virus that infects a computer by a known security fault, which had been patched years ago. If the computer is busy downloading updates, it deletes itself without doing anything at all. If the computer not donwloading updates at the moment, the virus's only operation is to show a message box Hi there, your system is not up to date. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B The virus from scenario A has got a second feature. Instead of a simple message box, it displays a question box Do you want to report this problem to Microsoft, and start the automatic update service now? If the user is not too shocked to click, he can cancel the virus, or let it fix the security hole. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Post your thoughts, if you have any. Vote '1', if you're not able to discuss. _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
It's not a new idea - I've heard of anti-virus viruses before Whilst scaring idiot users into making sure their machines are patched is probably a good idea, it's still doing something that is illegal Imagine if you got back to your car, only to find somebody had used a coathanger to open the door, and left a big note on your dashboard reading "Your car had a weak lock - you might like to get it fixed - call this number for your local autoshop... " - Would you think "oh that was nice of them to tell me" or would you be pissed that somebody had broken into your car? (and more to the point would you be suspicious of the phone number given?) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Phoenix Paint - back from DPaint's ashes!
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Scenario A Imagine a virus that infects a computer by a known security fault, which had been patched years ago. If the computer is busy downloading updates, it deletes itself without doing anything at all. If the computer not donwloading updates at the moment, the virus's only operation is to show a message box Hi there, your system is not up to date. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B The virus from scenario A has got a second feature. Instead of a simple message box, it displays a question box Do you want to report this problem to Microsoft, and start the automatic update service now? If the user is not too shocked to click, he can cancel the virus, or let it fix the security hole. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Post your thoughts, if you have any. Vote '1', if you're not able to discuss. _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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It's not a new idea - I've heard of anti-virus viruses before Whilst scaring idiot users into making sure their machines are patched is probably a good idea, it's still doing something that is illegal Imagine if you got back to your car, only to find somebody had used a coathanger to open the door, and left a big note on your dashboard reading "Your car had a weak lock - you might like to get it fixed - call this number for your local autoshop... " - Would you think "oh that was nice of them to tell me" or would you be pissed that somebody had broken into your car? (and more to the point would you be suspicious of the phone number given?) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Phoenix Paint - back from DPaint's ashes!
benjymous wrote: I've heard of anti-virus viruses before Of course you have, I only wanted to know what programmers think of it. benjymous wrote: Imagine if you got back to your car...... For a moment I would be pissed (damn virus!). Next I would check, if anything is missing or damaged in the car (harddisc scan). Then I would look up the number of another autoshop (look for patches from trustworthy sources). I would not give my car to a shop, which takes advantage of illegal advertising. :~ _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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Scenario A Imagine a virus that infects a computer by a known security fault, which had been patched years ago. If the computer is busy downloading updates, it deletes itself without doing anything at all. If the computer not donwloading updates at the moment, the virus's only operation is to show a message box Hi there, your system is not up to date. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B The virus from scenario A has got a second feature. Instead of a simple message box, it displays a question box Do you want to report this problem to Microsoft, and start the automatic update service now? If the user is not too shocked to click, he can cancel the virus, or let it fix the security hole. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Post your thoughts, if you have any. Vote '1', if you're not able to discuss. _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
Not a flaming, just to compare and to see my point of view of all that stuff... Scenario A: Imagine a person checks the door of you appartment if it is locked properly. If not, he enters, searches all your stuff and goods, leaves a note on the table which says: Hi there, I could have stolen all your stuff (worth: approx. 4000$). Your doorlock was not up to date. 1. Is this person dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the person be punished for that? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B: Imagine a locksmith checks the door of you appartment if it is locked properly. If not, he enters, searches all your stuff and goods, leaves a note on the table which says: Hi there, I could have stolen all your stuff (worth: approx. 4000$). Your doorlock was not up to date. Please call (555) 0815 for a new lock. 1. Is this person dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the person be punished for that? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? ... what would you think? really a bad joke at least? save the privacy!
Olli "Ooooooh, they have the internet on computers now!"
Homer Simpson
:beer: + :java: = NULL :=> X| -
Scenario A: 1. The programmer is an idiot. 2. Punishment is appropriate. 3. We are not amused. Scenario B: 1. The programmer is an idiot. 2. Punishment is appropriate. 3. We are not amused. If the programmer really was concerned, he/she should have reported the hole in security to Microsoft, or if he didn't like Microsoft, he/she could have published the information elsewhere where Microsoft would be sure to find it. How the world is the average user, even programmers, expected to recognize the virus as harmless? If I got a popup box like that, I would expect that my computer was infiltrated. I would have to run a thorough check with Norton AV, and if it didn't find anything, which would be the case here, then I would have to wipe the harddisk and make a reinstall, which would cost me at least a half days work. Not very funny indeed. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
Scenario C The police finds out that programmer is 10 years old and knows about the security bug from a magazine. He wanted to check if his mega cool virus really works, and show off at school. What kind of punishment would be appropriate? 1. One year without pocket money and TV 2. Go to a different school 3. His parents should pay for any financial damage caused by the virus 4. Force him to write a useful program 5. [insert your ideas here] _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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Scenario A Imagine a virus that infects a computer by a known security fault, which had been patched years ago. If the computer is busy downloading updates, it deletes itself without doing anything at all. If the computer not donwloading updates at the moment, the virus's only operation is to show a message box Hi there, your system is not up to date. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B The virus from scenario A has got a second feature. Instead of a simple message box, it displays a question box Do you want to report this problem to Microsoft, and start the automatic update service now? If the user is not too shocked to click, he can cancel the virus, or let it fix the security hole. 1. Is this virus dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the programmer be punished for writing the virus? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Post your thoughts, if you have any. Vote '1', if you're not able to discuss. _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
Under both scenarios, I'd want the programmer punished for unauthorized trespassing. If I accidentally left my front door open, it doesn't mean some passing idiot can come in, and paint "you better lock your front door" on my living room wall. It wouldn't amuse me, not at all. Nish
My blog on C++/CLI, MFC/Win32, .NET - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
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Not a flaming, just to compare and to see my point of view of all that stuff... Scenario A: Imagine a person checks the door of you appartment if it is locked properly. If not, he enters, searches all your stuff and goods, leaves a note on the table which says: Hi there, I could have stolen all your stuff (worth: approx. 4000$). Your doorlock was not up to date. 1. Is this person dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the person be punished for that? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? Scenario B: Imagine a locksmith checks the door of you appartment if it is locked properly. If not, he enters, searches all your stuff and goods, leaves a note on the table which says: Hi there, I could have stolen all your stuff (worth: approx. 4000$). Your doorlock was not up to date. Please call (555) 0815 for a new lock. 1. Is this person dangerous/evil/whatever? 2. Should the person be punished for that? 3. Is it just a strange kind of joke? ... what would you think? really a bad joke at least? save the privacy!
Olli "Ooooooh, they have the internet on computers now!"
Homer Simpson
:beer: + :java: = NULL :=> X|Scenario A: The person is not evil, but crazy and maybe dangerous. Just like the programmer in my scenario A. The strange guy should be sent to a doctor. If nothing helps and he breaks into apartments again, we'll have to punish him. Scenario B cannot be comapred to my scenario B. If the locksmith leaves his own number, it is illegal advertising and extremly stupid. But what about a virus loading patches from MS for free? _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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Under both scenarios, I'd want the programmer punished for unauthorized trespassing. If I accidentally left my front door open, it doesn't mean some passing idiot can come in, and paint "you better lock your front door" on my living room wall. It wouldn't amuse me, not at all. Nish
My blog on C++/CLI, MFC/Win32, .NET - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
The best explanation I've read, yet! :-D Would it be nicer if "some passing idiot" saw the open door, and only put a note into the mailbox "You left your door open. I hope it was an accident. You should not leave anything unlocked in this part of town", or don't you want strangers to take a too close look at your house? _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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Scenario C The police finds out that programmer is 10 years old and knows about the security bug from a magazine. He wanted to check if his mega cool virus really works, and show off at school. What kind of punishment would be appropriate? 1. One year without pocket money and TV 2. Go to a different school 3. His parents should pay for any financial damage caused by the virus 4. Force him to write a useful program 5. [insert your ideas here] _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
Every country got laws for handling crimes committed by children, I can't see what makes this case different from eg. stealing in the local mall. In Denmark the programmer would probably be placed under surveillance by the local authorities. If he continues on the bad track, he will probably be removed from the family, and put in a substitute family. What kind of punishment the parents will give him is up to them. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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Under both scenarios, I'd want the programmer punished for unauthorized trespassing. If I accidentally left my front door open, it doesn't mean some passing idiot can come in, and paint "you better lock your front door" on my living room wall. It wouldn't amuse me, not at all. Nish
My blog on C++/CLI, MFC/Win32, .NET - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
How about if you'd accidently left the door open and the passing idiot walked up and closed the door for you? David Parrott
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Very interesting links there. I believe you can guess how often someone (usually, a non-programmer) approaches me with "hey, I had this great idea to finish all viruses in the world!". :-D I have those links bookmarked just for this. :sigh: Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Every country got laws for handling crimes committed by children, I can't see what makes this case different from eg. stealing in the local mall. In Denmark the programmer would probably be placed under surveillance by the local authorities. If he continues on the bad track, he will probably be removed from the family, and put in a substitute family. What kind of punishment the parents will give him is up to them. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
That is no answer to the question. I'm not interested in any laws of any country. (Not in this case. In general I am interested, of course...) ;) What do you, as a person, not as laywer, you only yourself, find appropriate? _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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How about if you'd accidently left the door open and the passing idiot walked up and closed the door for you? David Parrott
Aaaaarrrrrgghh! How about if you left the key inside, and a passing idiot closed the door? To stick to the topic of computer viruses: How about if you did not install a patch, because it would block an important feature, some stupid auto-updater installed in, and now ten important applications don't run anymore? _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
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Scenario A: The person is not evil, but crazy and maybe dangerous. Just like the programmer in my scenario A. The strange guy should be sent to a doctor. If nothing helps and he breaks into apartments again, we'll have to punish him. Scenario B cannot be comapred to my scenario B. If the locksmith leaves his own number, it is illegal advertising and extremly stupid. But what about a virus loading patches from MS for free? _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
Corinna John wrote: Scenario B cannot be comapred to my scenario B. If the locksmith leaves his own number, it is illegal advertising and extremly stupid. But what about a virus loading patches from MS for free? What if the locksmith fitted a new lock for free? How would feel about that? (Especially if they lock it on the way out)
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That is no answer to the question. I'm not interested in any laws of any country. (Not in this case. In general I am interested, of course...) ;) What do you, as a person, not as laywer, you only yourself, find appropriate? _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
I think that the authorities and the parents should keep an eye on the kid, and they should take a real serious discussion with him. I don't believe in taking away resources, like pocket money, from kids on the first incident, that should be spared for any reiterations of the crime. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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Under both scenarios, I'd want the programmer punished for unauthorized trespassing. If I accidentally left my front door open, it doesn't mean some passing idiot can come in, and paint "you better lock your front door" on my living room wall. It wouldn't amuse me, not at all. Nish
My blog on C++/CLI, MFC/Win32, .NET - void Nish(char* szBlog); My MVP tips, tricks and essays web site - www.voidnish.com
Nishant S wrote: If I accidentally left my front door open, it doesn't mean some passing idiot can come in, and paint "you better lock your front door" on my living room wall. It wouldn't amuse me, not at all. It's more like someone passing by, closing the door and leave a note "be careful, your door was open". :) His indetions are good. His action is perfect. But he is still an idiot because he didn't learn not to mess with other's business. The general rule is "Don't help until you been asked for". - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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Scenario C The police finds out that programmer is 10 years old and knows about the security bug from a magazine. He wanted to check if his mega cool virus really works, and show off at school. What kind of punishment would be appropriate? 1. One year without pocket money and TV 2. Go to a different school 3. His parents should pay for any financial damage caused by the virus 4. Force him to write a useful program 5. [insert your ideas here] _________________________________ nur Idioten brauchen einen Führer
5. Nail the little bugger to the frikkin' wall as an example to others.
Software Zen:
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